Obama in "final stages" of closing Gitmo plan

[poweRob]

Nation of laws people. Nation of laws.

 

[WSUwarrior]

Seeing as how you summarily rejected my initial proof because it consisted of "assertions from the west" (on a related note: Does that mean that the only acceptable piece of evidence for you would be a direct quote from a jihadist?), I'll go ahead and answer this logically (as opposed to the inane questions you asked).

The article you posted (without reading) contained zero proof of your assertion. It was simply theory.

The reason that Gitmo as a recruitment tool logically makes sense is that recruiters, while talking to potential recruits, might say something along the lines of, "The Americans are not your friends. Look at how they have locked up your brothers in that prison in Guantanemo Bay without so much as offering them a trial. Look at the photos of humiliation and torture which the Americans have done to your fellow Muslims. Come join us and avenge your fellow brothers."

Would a recruitment speech like that qualify as using Gitmo as a recruitment tool?

1. Strawman argument.

2. They kill in the name of their prophet...not in the name of Gitmo exists. Hell, they scream the name of their God as they make their sickening slaughters of innocents.

 

[WSUwarrior]

Nation of laws people. Nation of laws.

Not anymore. Not under the Obama administration.

 

[poweRob]

Not anymore. Not under the Obama administration.

You are the one here fighting to keep Gitmo open. You are here supporting a subversion of the law, so... Obama whine all you want but you are being a giant hypocrite.

 

[WSUwarrior]

You are the one here fighting to keep Gitmo open. You are here supporting a subversion of the law, so... Obama whine all you want but you are being a giant hypocrite.

How is GITMO a subversion of the law?

 

[poweRob]

How is GITMO a subversion of the law?

They are being detained in Cuba to subvert facing our laws. They are in our possession but because it's GITMO they are intentionally removed from jurisdiction to hide them from U.S. law. Thus the ability to make up **** with regards to those detainees. Hence... subversion of law.

 

[WSUwarrior]

They are being detained in Cuba to subvert facing our laws. They are in our possession but because it's GITMO they are intentionally removed from jurisdiction to hide them from U.S. law. Thus the ability to make up **** with regards to those detainees. Hence... subversion of law.

What law?

 

[poweRob]

What law?

You can start with the constitution Sixth Amendment.

There is also unlawful detention. You can't just detain someone without a charge, hold them indefinitely without trial and then deny them a lawyer on top of that.

These are rules that the US, as a nation of laws, provides.

 

[WSUwarrior]

You can start with the constitution Sixth Amendment.

There is also unlawful detention. You can't just detain someone without a charge, hold them indefinitely without trial and then deny them a lawyer on top of that.

These are rules that the US, as a nation of laws, provides.

Since when did we implement giving Constitutional rights to POWs?

 

[poweRob]

Since when did we implement giving Constitutional rights to POWs?

Nation of laws.

 

[WSUwarrior]

Nation of laws.

Show the case law...since when did we start giving Constitutional rights to captured POWs??????????????????? Is there any precedent for that? Any case law? Hello McFly?


Enjoy the corner Ive backed you into.

 

[poweRob]

Show the case law...since when did we start giving Constitutional rights to captured POWs??????????????????? Is there any precedent for that? Any case law? Hello McFly?


Enjoy the corner Ive backed you into.

We are a nation of laws. All you are doing is trying to find excuses to not apply the law to X people. Therefore you are for subverting the law.

Also, a POW is to be repatriated when the war is over and cannot be prosecuted for their soldierly acts. But we are in an indefinite undeclared war so... no war, no POW's.

Law is law.

 

[US Conservative]

We are a nation of laws. All you are doing is trying to find excuses to not apply the law to X people. Therefore you are for subverting the law.

Also, a POW is to be repatriated when the war is over and cannot be prosecuted for their soldierly acts. But we are in an indefinite undeclared war so... no war, no POW's.

Law is law.

Rules of war to a non-conventional combatant.

I love the lefts "standards".

Let em rot.

 

[tres borrachos]

Derp...."I can't understand that lots of other folks, who probably communicated this concept up the chain, also confirm that GITMO is in fact a tool for recruitment."

Your posts are filled with the word "derp". Again, you don't have to be so hard on yourself because you don't understand these things.

 

[tres borrachos]

How does it make logical sense? How would going to prison indefinitely make one want to become a terrorist? Has GITMO ever been attacked? Did terrorism precede GITMO, or was it the other way around?

How in the HELL does it make logical sense?

Terrorism preceded GITMO by many years. And there is no evidence that it was used as a "recruitment tool". Never has been. It's the opinion of people, and it may or may not be accurate, but for people to pretend it's been proven is just plain dishonest.

 

[MrT]

The article you posted (without reading) contained zero proof of your assertion. It was simply theory.



1. Strawman argument.

2. They kill in the name of their prophet...not in the name of Gitmo exists. Hell, they scream the name of their God as they make their sickening slaughters of innocents.

We're debating whether it is used as a recruitment tool - not whether they have other reasons for actually joining or attacking.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Where is the evidence suggesting that this ridiculous assertion is even remotely true?

How Guantanamo Bay's Existence Helps Al-Qaeda Recruit More Terrorists - The Atlantic
"Guantanamo Bay has often been the focus of jihadist media and propaganda. Just recently, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan--the mouthpiece of the Taliban-- put out a statement calling attention to the ongoing hunger strike at Guantanamo Bay. The brief message claims that the hunger strike at the prison has been going on for forty days (as of March 24) and calls for international rights organizations to "spread awareness about the plight of the destitute inmates." Guantanamo Bay has become a salient issue used in jihadist propaganda.

In 2010, Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) released the first issue of Inspire , their English language recruitment magazine. To date, AQAP has released 10 issues of Inspire, and the plight of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has been featured prominently in several issues.

In the 2010 inaugural issue of Inspire, an essay by Osama bin Laden mentions "the crimes at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo . . . which shook the conscience of humanity." Tellingly, bin Laden points out that "there has been no mentionable change" at Guantanamo and the prison is noted again later in the issue.

Gitmo features even more prominently in Issue 2 of Inspire. The essays of Abu Sufyan al-Azdi and Uthman al-Gamidi, two former detainees who returned to AQAP upon their release, call new individuals to join the jihad, whether at home or abroad. In Issue 7, Yahya Ibrahim notes that Guantanamo Bay "exposed the West for what it really is" and "showed the world the American understanding of human rights."

Most troubling, in the latest issue of Inspire released early this month, AQAP mentions Guantanamo Bay several times. In a prelude to the attention that the hunger strikers have been paid lately, Abu Musab al-Suri notes that Guantanamo is not only "filled with . . . mujahedeen" but also with "hundreds of innocent civilians." While it is quite rich to hear AQAP's concern for the plight of innocent civilians, given the high number of Yemenis cleared for release still at Guantanamo, this is a very salient message for AQAP's base in Yemen.

The constant refrain about Guantanamo Bay may be inspiring jihadist action. Anwar al-Awlaki issued a lecture discussing the plight of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay before his death by drone strike in 2011. Awlaki's lectures still play an important role in recruiting impressionable individuals to jihad. As we know, Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hassan was impressed by Awlaki's message and was encouraged (although not directed) to carry out an attack on the states by the cleric himself."

 

[MrT]

Since when did we implement giving Constitutional rights to POWs?

The problem is that they are not even considered a POW because POWs have rights as well. These are "detainees" and thus, the argument went, they were not entitled to any additional rights.

That is, until Hamdan v. Rumsfeld and Boumediene v. Bush decided that they were at least entitled to present Habeas Corpus challenges.

 

[MrT]

Terrorism preceded GITMO by many years. And there is no evidence that it was used as a "recruitment tool". Never has been. It's the opinion of people, and it may or may not be accurate, but for people to pretend it's been proven is just plain dishonest.

As I asked WVU (who responded and yet still did not answer the question), what would qualify as "proof" that Gitmo has been used a recruitment tool?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

But this is great news. Its about time we close down this base. Its a stain on American history. Its also time to give the portion of the bay the US controls back to Cuba.

 

[Manc Skipper]

He's going to move it to Texas under cover of the Jade Helm exercise! Muuaaahahahaha!

 

[Texmex]

To be fair, Obama has tried...

It is obvious that these right-wingers here don't know anything about being fair. Just look at the poster you are responding to, she is anything but fair.

Anything good is automatically discounted; anything bad is automatically put on display. Disgusting right-wing conservatives, we would be better if they all moved to the South and then they succeeded.

 

[Montecresto]

The Obama administration is in the "final stages of drafting a plan to safely and responsibly" close the terrorist prison at Guantanamo Bay, White House press secretary Josh Earnest said Wednesday.

"That has been something that our national security officials have been working on for quite some time...Continuing to operate that prison is not an effective use of our taxpayer resources, and it certainly is not consistent with our national security interests," Earnest said Wednesday.

Any plan would have to be approved by Congress, which has placed significant obstacles in the way of transferring detainees out of the prison.

Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, has opened the door in Congress for the administration to submit a plan to close the prison in exchange for tightening restrictions on transferring detainees abroad. But it's considered unlikely the measure will gain enough support from other Republicans to pass.

Obama in 'final stages' of planning the Gitmo closing - CNNPolitics.com

It is long past time to close Gitmo. It is used as a recruiting tool and creating more terrorists than it contains or stops. Hopefully Obama will be able to fulfill a political promise that has been on hold since day one.

This and the Iranian nuclear deal, Obama's two chief FP successes.

 

[MrT]

This and the Iranian nuclear deal, Obama's two chief FP successes.

I would add normalization of diplomatic relations with Cuba as a third feather in the cap.

 

[Montecresto]

As I asked WVU (who responded and yet still did not answer the question), what would qualify as "proof" that Gitmo has been used a recruitment tool?

Guantanamo Bay has often been the focus of jihadist media and propaganda. Just recently, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan--the mouthpiece of the Taliban-- put out a statement calling attention to the ongoing hunger strike at Guantanamo Bay. The brief message claims that the hunger strike at the prison has been going on for forty days (as of March 24) and calls for international rights organizations to "spread awareness about the plight of the destitute inmates." Guantanamo Bay has become a salient issue used in jihadist propaganda.


In 2010, Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) released the first issue of Inspire , their English language recruitment magazine. To date, AQAP has released 10 issues of Inspire, and the plight of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has been featured prominently in several issues.

In the 2010 inaugural issue of Inspire, an essay by Osama bin Laden mentions "the crimes at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo . . . which shook the conscience of humanity." Tellingly, bin Laden points out that "there has been no mentionable change" at Guantanamo and the prison is noted again later in the issue.

Gitmo features even more prominently in Issue 2 of Inspire. The essays of Abu Sufyan al-Azdi and Uthman al-Gamidi, two former detainees who returned to AQAP upon their release, call new individuals to join the jihad, whether at home or abroad. In Issue 7, Yahya Ibrahim notes that Guantanamo Bay "exposed the West for what it really is" and "showed the world the American understanding of human rights."

Most troubling, in the latest issue of Inspire released early this month, AQAP mentions Guantanamo Bay several times. In a prelude to the attention that the hunger strikers have been paid lately, Abu Musab al-Suri notes that Guantanamo is not only "filled with . . . mujahedeen" but also with "hundreds of innocent civilians." While it is quite rich to hear AQAP's concern for the plight of innocent civilians, given the high number of Yemenis cleared for release still at Guantanamo, this is a very salient message for AQAP's base in Yemen.

Guantanamo Bay has been a huge recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Bush was too ignorant to understand this, having never even heard of a Sunni or a Shiite, he was sorely ignorant of the culture of the people he was waging war upon. I have no idea what obamas excuse for continuing the prison is.