Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

Grant · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

iguanaman said:
Again you repeat that same fairytale, Bush wanted a long term agreement like we have with South Korea but the Iraqi's would have none of it and would not agree to any open ended occupation. He struggled to get even the 3 year agreement before his U.N. sanctioned occupation time was up. As far as dead we need to count the Sunnis that Maliki's Shia militias murdered as well. The choice of supporting a sectarian terrorist while he commits genocide or following through with the agreement that Bush signed was probably not that difficult given that the Iraqi's wanted us out badly anyway.

If Obama wanted to end the war in Iraq, as he claimed repeatedly that he did, and said that the war was a success, that "We knew this day would come. We've known it for some time. But still there is something profound about the end of a war that has lasted so long," said Obama. "It's harder to end a war than begin one. Everything that American troops have done in Iraq - all the fighting, all the dying, the bleeding and the building and the training and the partnering, all of it has landed to this moment of success."

If that was the case, what difference would a SOFA make?

Obama and his sycophants are now blaming it on Bush and the lack of a SOFA, or Maliki forcing them out, when his words, actions and intentions run contrary to all of this.

Moot · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Barack Obama declares Iraq war a success President told an audience of soldiers at Fort Bragg that the final pullout after nearly nine years of conflict is a 'historic' moment

Chris McGreal in Washington

....But the president, who came to power promising to end the war, said that for all the suffering, the result was success.

No, Obama did not declare the Iraq War a success. He said the sum of what the troops did in Iraq was historic and "a moment of success" ....not that the entire Iraq War or the surge was a success....

From Guardian article...

"We knew this day would come. We've known it for some time. But still there is something profound about the end of a war that has lasted so long," said Obama. "It's harder to end a war than begin one. Everything that American troops have done in Iraq - all the fighting, all the dying, the bleeding and the building and the training and the partnering, all of it has landed to this moment of success."

Obama's studiously avoided declaring victory or the hubris of his predecessor, George Bush, who paraded under a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished" just as the worst of the killing in Iraq was about to begin. But the president said that the US has left Iraq better than it found it.

"Iraq's not a perfect place. It has many challenges ahead. But we're leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self reliant Iraq with a representative government that was elected by its people. We're building a new partnership between our nations and we are ending a war not with a final battle but with a final march toward home. This is an extraordinary achievement," he said..."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/14/barack-obama-iraq-war-success

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
No, Obama did not declare the Iraq War a success. He said the sum of what the troops did in Iraq was "a moment of success" not that the entire Iraq War or the surge was a success....

"We knew this day would come. We've known it for some time. But still there is something profound about the end of a war that has lasted so long," said Obama. "It's harder to end a war than begin one. Everything that American troops have done in Iraq - all the fighting, all the dying, the bleeding and the building and the training and the partnering, all of it has landed to this moment of success."

Deny deny deny.

poweRob · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Thrilla said:
false choice.

If we'd have taken out Assad as well ISIS would have spread wider and faster in Syria and probably further due to the lack of resistance.

Moot · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Deny deny deny.

I just quoted your link. :roll:

Thrilla · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
If we'd have taken out Assad as well ISIS would have spread wider and faster in Syria and probably further due to the lack of resistance.

there are more factions at play than just Assad and ISIS.

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Moot said:
I just quoted your link. :roll:

And misinterpreted it.

poweRob · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Thrilla said:
there are more factions at play than just Assad and ISIS.

A helluva lot more. You are right. But the guy I addressed seemed to be pushing the whole "Obama should've taken out Assad" angle.

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
If we'd have taken out Assad as well ISIS would have spread wider and faster in Syria and probably further due to the lack of resistance.

The window of opportunity in Syria was early 2012. The Assad regime was on the defensive, opposition morale was high, the secular rebels were in charge and ISIS had not yet formed. During that window we did nothing.

Thrilla · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
A helluva lot more. You are right. But the guy I addressed seemed to be pushing the whole "Obama should've taken out Assad" angle.

he should have backed the Syrian National Coalition with more than just words... they would have taken out Assad, and they've no love for ISIS either.

poweRob · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
The window of opportunity in Syria was early 2012. The Assad regime was on the defensive, opposition morale was high, the secular rebels were in charge and ISIS had not yet formed. During that window we did nothing.

ISIS...

Foundation of the group (1999–2006)

Following the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Jordanian Salafi Jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his militant group Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, founded in 1999, achieved notoriety in the early stages of the Iraqi insurgency for the suicide attacks on Shia Islamic mosques, civilians, Iraqi government institutions and Italian soldiers partaking in the U.S.-led 'Multi-National Force'.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
ISIS...

Foundation of the group (1999–2006)

Following the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Jordanian Salafi Jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his militant group Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, founded in 1999, achieved notoriety in the early stages of the Iraqi insurgency for the suicide attacks on Shia Islamic mosques, civilians, Iraqi government institutions and Italian soldiers partaking in the U.S.-led 'Multi-National Force'.

You don't know what you are talking about.

And completely neutralized by 2009. The departure of US forces from Iraq in 2011 and the vacuum in Syria from mid 2012 onward created the opportunity for ISIS to form.

poweRob · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
And completely neutralized by 2009. The departure of US forces from Iraq in 2011 and the vacuum in Syria from mid 2012 onward created the opportunity for ISIS to form.

:spin:

You don't know what you are talking about.

Grant · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
ISIS...

Foundation of the group (1999–2006)

Following the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Jordanian Salafi Jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his militant group Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, founded in 1999, achieved notoriety in the early stages of the Iraqi insurgency for the suicide attacks on Shia Islamic mosques, civilians, Iraqi government institutions and Italian soldiers partaking in the U.S.-led 'Multi-National Force'.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Salafi Jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his militant group Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, founded in 1999? This was the precursor of ISIS, right?Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
:spin:

You don't know what you are talking about.

One of us has been to Iraq. I know that war and that area quite a bit better than you.

poweRob · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
One of us has been to Iraq. I know that war and that area quite a bit better than you.

Then why do you have such a hard time backing up all this stuff you are making up? All talk... no links. Sorry that when I bring facts to back up my points that it destroys yours. But that's what links are for. BTW... What makes you think you know where I've been and haven't? More Jack fabricated speculation I suppose?

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
Then why do you have such a hard time backing up all this stuff you are making up? All talk... no links. Sorry that when I bring facts to back up my points that it destroys yours. But that's what links are for. BTW... What makes you think you know where I've been and haven't? More Jack fabricated speculation I suppose?

Your link provides perfectly valid information but it's not relevant or useful. After Zarqawi was killed and after the 2007-2008 surge, the Sunni extremists were in retreat. They did not reconstitute until 2012, using Syria as a safe haven and rally point.

poweRob · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Your link provides perfectly valid information but it's not relevant or useful. After Zarqawi was killed and after the 2007-2008 surge, the Sunni extremists were in retreat. They did not reconstitute until 2012, using Syria as a safe haven and rally point.

I invite you to back up anything you say.

Grant · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
I invite you to back up anything you say.

This is an excellent opportunity for you to contradict him with your own set of facts!

poweRob · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Grant said:
This is an excellent opportunity for you to contradict him with your own set of facts!

I did. And he just keeps spamming with no supportive links. Direct your ire towards him if you care about the need for supporting facts in an argument.

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
I did. And he just keeps spamming with no supportive links. Direct your ire towards him if you care about the need for supporting facts in an argument.

This is reasonably good although it necessarily leaves out quite a bit.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33487.pdf

Jack Hays · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
I invite you to back up anything you say.

On the Origin of ISIS - by Hussain Abdul-Hussain Lee Smith

cpwill · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

iguanaman said:
cpwill said:

unny, then how two different Secretaries of Defense for the Obama Administration who were directly involved seem to remember that differently

Click to expand...

LOL Who cares what they said?

:roll: oh, I don't know. People who might want to accurately understand what went on?

But clearly that doesn't include yourself - have a nice day, iguana .

cpwill · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Jack Hays said:
Wrong. BHO kept lowering the projected residual force level until it was no longer worth the political effort for the Iraqis.

That is correct. I think it was something like 2 months prior to the end of the previous SOFA that they basically torpedoed the talks by suddenly coming up with a 5,000 Hard Cap; way below what anyone had been talking about.

cpwill · Mar 13, 2015

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

poweRob said:
I invite you to back up anything you say.

:shrug: having looked at the problem set professionally on the military side, I can tell you he is mostly correct.

I say "mostly" because Words Mean Things, and I wouldn't apply the term "completely" to "neutralized". "Massively" or possibly "Overwhelmingly", perhaps.

Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

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