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Nukes!

anomaly

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Well, it's official. North Korea has nuclear weapons, and Iran will soon be capable of having them. Within ten years, N. Korea will have the ability to fire nukes at the west coast. So how should the US deal with these two real threats?
 

GarzaUK

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I think most likely these nations will use nuclear weapons as a deterrent against an invasion, they know the political backlash of using them. The U.S. opened the pandora's box of the nuclear age, you have to expect that other nations will seek them out. The Iranians are not madmen, they won't fire for the hell of it. China will keep North Korea in line.

The only concern is terrorists getting their hands on them, but to be truthful they could have easily got one since the fall of the cold war from the ex-soviet states.

North Korea and the Iranians are pursuing or pursued nuclear weapons because the US started threatning them. It's also clear to them that the US beleive in pre-emptive strikes (like gazing into a crystal ball). I am not surprised at all that they went for nukes. A nuke is the only thing that will make this current administration think twice about invading.

But I expect that an Iranian invasion has been prepared for years, only Iraq wasn't the "cakewalk" the neo-hawks thought it would be.

Anyway good luck in your draft, I'm sure all you rich people will avoid it anyhow :rolleyes: lol :hm yay america
 

CSA_TX

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Isreal will nuke Iran and we should nuke North Korea. end of problem. :fu
 

anomaly

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CSA_TX said:
Isreal will nuke Iran and we should nuke North Korea. end of problem. :fu
CSA, please don't add to my hatred of the conservative viewpoint by saying something so stupid! Think of the repercussions of simply nuking them. WW3. If we nuke N. Korea, China will surely get involved. And we cannot beat China in a war. It would be a nuclear massacre of both countries. If Israel launches a nuke at Iran, every mideast Muslim country will shoot anything and everything they have at Israel. Either way, simply launching nukes does not bode well for the United States. So please, CSA, think before you speak next time.

My solution? We leave N. Korea to themselves, isolate them. Their economy is on the downfall, and even their semi-ally China is opposed to N. Korea having or using nuclear weapons. They will eventually self-destruct, probably as soon as Kim Jong Il dies. With Iran, we can still send diplomats over there and hope to stop Iran from getting nukes. The great advantage with the Iran situation is that they are not run by a madman. Their leaders are sensible enough to not shoot nukes as an offensive rather than defensive tactic.
So there's a solution with no war. I know most Americans hate these type of solutions, but a war against Iran or N. Korea would not be the same as Iraq.
 

CSA_TX

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Iran's philosophy and religion believe that the infidels must die. The Jews have to protect themselves. They have the ability and have done so in the past and if your a god faring person then you know they have god on there side. So I think Iran needs to worry about them more than us. I think Bush is doing the right thing in North Korea. Unilateral talks and agreements with previous administrations have failed. So get the neighbors involved. However as soon as a nuke goes off within the US all bets are off. The regimes most likely to sell nukes will be wiped from the face of the earth.
 

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I believe the fact of the matter is, they will not fire for the sake of firing it. They are not all crazy mad men on a rush to destroy the world. Like someone before me said, they would use them in retaliation to an attack. Same with the US. We have them, but we dont fire them for the sake of it.
 

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Recently a friend of mine came up to me and said now that North Korea has nukes. Aren't you afraid of another war this time with Korea? He also said "they" are talking about a future war with Korea. I said to my friend you are wasting your time worrying about Korea, because they are in no position to fight. There is a better chance of hell freezing over than Korea starting a war. Maybe this just makes sense to me, but check out what I got to say here. For starters Korea's conventional army is mostly made up of antiquated Soviet and Chinese equipment dating back from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's. They also have not invested enough money, research, and production of surface to air missiles which leaves their army open to air attack. Their army may be one of the biggest, but recent surveys show that their army's lack proper training and food supply, because of a long enduring economical recession. Which also explains why they still use out dated equipment. Most of North Korea's population lives in poverty due to their failing economy. Info for this is supported at.www.fh.org/cdi_nkorea and at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/army.htm . Technology Makes A difference a classic example of this was before and during WW2. Before world war two America was emerging from the great depression, and Germany was the world's largest industrial nation, and leader of new and advanced fighting equipment. After two years of fighting the Russians and the British Germanys army size was considerably cut back. Then the Americans British and Canadians landed on the beaches of Normandy. During the fights the followed in France, German soldiers were often out numbered 2 to 1, but American soldiers thought they are fighting a force comparable to their own. So in conclusion even though German soldiers were out numbered their good training, battle experience, and weapons acted as their other missing half. Exactly what the North Korean's do not have! They lack support from their economy which in turn leaves them under trained under armed and under feed. So that is why I could care less if we went to war with Korea, because they have far less nukes than the US does (mainly because their nuke programs haven't been going as long as the US's), if they nuked the US they would be nuked ten times over, if they wanted a war they would be forced to use a conventional army which is not up to snuff. I laugh at Korea, because they would get beaten if a war was started. So don't waste your time worrying about a war with North Korea!
 
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MeChMAN

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Messerschmitt said:
Recently a friend of mine came up to me and said now that North Korea has nukes. Aren't you afraid of another war this time with Korea? He also said "they" are talking about a future war with Korea. I said to my friend you are wasting your time worrying about Korea, because they are in no position to fight. There is a better chance of hell freezing over than Korea starting a war. Maybe this just makes sense to me, but check out what I got to say here. For starters Korea's conventional army is mostly made up of antiquated Soviet and Chinese equipment dating back from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's. They also have not invested enough money, research, and production of surface to air missiles which leaves their army open to air attack. Their army may be one of the biggest, but recent surveys show that their army's lack proper training and food supply, because of a long enduring economical recession. Which also explains why they still use out dated equipment. Most of North Korea's population lives in poverty due to their failing economy. Info for this is supported at.www.fh.org/cdi_nkorea and at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/army.htm . Technology Makes A difference a classic example of this was before and during WW2. Before world war two America was emerging from the great depression, and Germany was the world's largest industrial nation, and leader of new and advanced fighting equipment. After two years of fighting the Russians and the British Germanys army size was considerably cut back. Then the Americans British and Canadians landed on the beaches of Normandy. During the fights the followed in France, German soldiers were often out numbered 2 to 1, but American soldiers thought they are fighting a force comparable to their own. So in conclusion even though German soldiers were out numbered their good training, battle experience, and weapons acted as their other missing half. Exactly what the North Korean's do not have! They lack support from their economy which in turn leaves them under trained under armed and under feed. So that is why I could care less if we went to war with Korea, because they have far less nukes than the US does (mainly because their nuke programs haven't been going as long as the US's), if they nuked the US they would be nuked ten times over, if they wanted a war they would be forced to use a conventional army which is not up to snuff. I laugh at Korea, because they would get beaten if a war was started. So don't waste your time worrying about a war with North Korea!

:applaud :applaud You said it all brother!
 

GarzaUK

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The US would kick North Korea's ass in a war obviously, but that is irrevalent. What is revelanet though is "Will China get involved?" That is the big question.
 

Pacridge

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GarzaUK said:
The US would kick North Korea's ass in a war obviously, but that is irrevalent. What is revelanet though is "Will China get involved?" That is the big question.
Will China get involved and will NK sell their Nukes to the likes of Osama bin Laden? I think those are both compelling questions. Face it NK is in serious need of cash. Their whole country is facing food shortages, they can't even keep the electricity on in most parts of their nation. Just how hard up are they? And who are they willing to deal with?
 

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Part of Bush's plan for North Korea, and I have heard Bush say this over and over and over many times during the presidential debates. He said that he is going to have talks with China to be used as leverage to get North Korea to agree to UN terms, and talks. If someone finds a transcript from one of the debates it would further support this evidence, because I know thats what Bush is going to do if "big bad" North Korea doesn't want to talk about disarmament.

I think its funny that North Korea can talk the big bad talk, but they can't walk the walk.
 

anomaly

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Messerschmitt said:
Part of Bush's plan for North Korea, and I have heard Bush say this over and over and over many times during the presidential debates. He said that he is going to have talks with China to be used as leverage to get North Korea to agree to UN terms, and talks. If someone finds a transcript from one of the debates it would further support this evidence, because I know thats what Bush is going to do if "big bad" North Korea doesn't want to talk about disarmament.

I think its funny that North Korea can talk the big bad talk, but they can't walk the walk.
But NK having nukes has serious repercussions. As I said earlier, Japan is now considering getting nukes. And China is always wary of their former enemies. We do not want all of the east to have nukes, because it takes only one idiot to launch one. I agree with you though, that NK will most likely not be aggressive. Why do you think they got a nuke? Because the US will not invade any country that has nukes! It's self defense, but still NK should disarm. Than again, if it were up to me, every country in thw world would disarm! But that's just the idealistic part of me talking...
 

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Thats what I hinted at earlier North Korea only has a few nukes. Look at it in these basic terms lets say that America is a Red ant hill and North Korea are a smaller black ant hill, and bloth the red and black ants have ant lions(nukes). The black ants have a couple antlions, and the red ants have many ant lions. Ok now if the Black ants send their ant lions over to the red ant hill they will kill many red ants. This doesn't kill all the red ants it just ****es them off. So the red ants send their ant lions over and that kills quiet a few black ants, then the red ants move in their infantry in and decimate the black ants. So in our terms this means that the North Koreans only have a couple of nukes, because they don't have enough money to build many nukes or have a good conventional army bolth of which I stated in my earlier post. On the other hand the US has lots of Nukes and a very fine army. So if North Korea was to start a war sure it would kill many Americans in a nuke attack, but the counter-attack on the North Koreans would be much more devastating to them than the US (remember that Korea is 120,540 sq Km that is slightly smaller than the state of Mississippi). So unless North Korea was either really stupid or really angry they would lose in the long run. Thats why all countries need to attend to North Korea by hold talks before they get too many nukes. I don't think that the US would invade North Korea, so I don't think they made a nuke for self-defense from the USA. They should know that the US sees the nuke as a threat, and on that note the US would be hostile to North Korea and would consider an attack based on the fact that they have a nuke, but the US isn't that blind. The US knows there are other means, and that war is the last resort when other measures have failed.
 
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Chaos10187

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Pacridge said:
Will China get involved and will NK sell their Nukes to the likes of Osama bin Laden? I think those are both compelling questions. Face it NK is in serious need of cash. Their whole country is facing food shortages, they can't even keep the electricity on in most parts of their nation. Just how hard up are they? And who are they willing to deal with?
If you take that point into consideration, they would be more willing to sell their nukes on the blackmarket to make ends meat, then to fire the missles themselves. Esp if they sell them to enemies of the US. So, it would be a win-win for them.
 

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Yes that is what will most likely happen if anything at all. Thats what has the USA most concerned. I was just weighing the possibilities for a situation with direct war.
 

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If Islamic terrorists wanted nukes they could hav got them a long time ago on the black market expecially in the ex-Soviet States. Terrorists do not have the means though to fire one of those nukes.

They would have to get that nuke on american soil, which logistically is quite difficult. Islamic terrorists haven't even tried to nuke America, because it is very very hard. Nuking is far more simplier that the operations of 9/11, but they didn't go for it.
 

Chaos10187

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GarzaUK said:
If Islamic terrorists wanted nukes they could hav got them a long time ago on the black market expecially in the ex-Soviet States. Terrorists do not have the means though to fire one of those nukes.

They would have to get that nuke on american soil, which logistically is quite difficult. Islamic terrorists haven't even tried to nuke America, because it is very very hard. Nuking is far more simplier that the operations of 9/11, but they didn't go for it.
I think the 9-11 incident was more of a statement. "Hey look, we came into your contry, took YOUR plane, with YOUR people in it, and ran it into YOUR building with more of YOUR people in it."

Setting off a nuke would have been more devestating, but I think their main idea was trying to get that point across.
 

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No we must get the nukes. N. Korea could easily be convinced by a terrorist type group to give them WMD's. N. Korea is like a little kid with a gun they have no idea what the consequences are if they pull the trigger.And I don't think we should give them the chance to find out what that consequence is.
 

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Repubteen said:
No we must get the nukes. N. Korea could easily be convinced by a terrorist type group to give them WMD's. N. Korea is like a little kid with a gun they have no idea what the consequences are if they pull the trigger.And I don't think we should give them the chance to find out what that consequence is.
Nukes? WMD's? Everyone knows there is no such thing. Besides, communists dictators only want to play nice nice. :eek: :lol:
 

anomaly

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Batman said:
Nukes? WMD's? Everyone knows there is no such thing. Besides, communists dictators only want to play nice nice. :eek: :lol:
Nice attempt at sarcasm. But KN has nukes, we know that. We also know that they don't have the ability to fire them at the USA for approximately 10 years. We have time-let's use it. China is doing the right thing now by attempting to set up talks. We can only hope they succeed in disarming NK, but if not, the USA should pressure them to disarm. The key is China, since it is China who is keeping NK afloat right now.
 

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anomaly said:
Nice attempt at sarcasm. But KN has nukes, we know that. We also know that they don't have the ability to fire them at the USA for approximately 10 years. We have time-let's use it. China is doing the right thing now by attempting to set up talks. We can only hope they succeed in disarming NK, but if not, the USA should pressure them to disarm. The key is China, since it is China who is keeping NK afloat right now.
I thought it was nice. I agree about China, they could seal the border with NK and stop all trade. That would certainly pressure them. But if NK can't fire a nuke at us for 10 years does that mean you're not concerned about those around them? Japan for instance. But, what if the intelligence that says they can't fire at us for 10 years is wrong? And they fire one at us within the next four years. I know who you would blame for that.
 

anomaly

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Batman said:
I thought it was nice. I agree about China, they could seal the border with NK and stop all trade. That would certainly pressure them. But if NK can't fire a nuke at us for 10 years does that mean you're not concerned about those around them? Japan for instance. But, what if the intelligence that says they can't fire at us for 10 years is wrong? And they fire one at us within the next four years. I know who you would blame for that.
Yeah, it was pretty nice (for a conservative). And no, I'm not saying to wait ten years, I'm saying let's not rush into war or anything (before you respond, no, I'm not saying that Bush is considering it, I'm saying that Bush right now is doing the right thing). Let's use this time to set up talks with NK, China, Russian, Japan, and SK in order to pressure the North Koreans into disarming. But, China could probably achieve this goal itself, so whatever works.
 
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