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Nothing made everything....

You used Wikipedia as your attempt to define "science". That is an Appeal To False Authority fallacy... Wikipedia does NOT define what "science" is... Also, Wikipedia is an outside reference. Philosophy does NOT allow outside references...

Try again...

Is that where he got it from? I delete references to Wikipedia on sight. Their articles are too often badly written, incomplete, or just outright wrong. You are correct. Wikipedia is not a valid reference for anything in science or philosophy.
 
Nearly every post of yours is an example of you making up pretend rules to suite yourself.
Philosophy basically has only one rule. No outside references allowed. The argument to be presented MUST use it's own reasoning as the base.
WTF does that even mean??? Can you give a source to back your attempt to make crap up?
Philosophy doesn't use Holy Links.
And wikipedia is as good a source as any.
WRONG. It is not accepted by me. That means it is not a valid source just on that point alone. It sound like gfm might be of a similar opinion. I'll let him speak for himself, should he choose to do so.
It merely repeats what the dictionary of philosophy
Philosophy is not a dictionary.
has to say about science.
Science is a set of falsifiable theories. That's it. That's all science is.
...deleted Holy Link...
Does the oxford dictionary of philosophy count as an inside source, whatever the **** that is or can you make up a new excuse to reject that as well?
No dictionary defines any word. No dictionary owns any word. Dictionaries standardize spelling and punctuation, and provide examples on the use of a word. No dictionary is authoritative on the definition of any word.
 
Is that where he got it from? I delete references to Wikipedia on sight. Their articles are too often badly written, incomplete, or just outright wrong. You are correct. Wikipedia is not a valid reference for anything in science or philosophy.

Yes, that's where he got it from. My instinct told me that he just pulled some random definition from the internet, so I copied the definition he offered and did a quoted search ("...") of it using Google and his words led me straight to Wikipedia's offered definition of Science.

It was a definition that was, to no surprise, full of misinformation.
 
I can write the same concept a hundred different ways with slightly different verbiage. Why, though?

Nobody gives a **** what you think philosophy allows, by the way. I’m talking science, not philosophy.

WRONG. You are quoting false references. You are not talking about science or philosophy.
 
This is just a long winded way of saying “nuh uh.” All you are doing is repeating the same unsupported assertions from before. Argument of the Stone.
Inversion fallacy.
Philosophy has no authority to define squat.
Yes it does. Argument of the stone fallacy. Denial of philosophy.
You are just des-erately trying to justify a poor choice in undergraduate degrees, I think. :lamo
...followed by Mantra 12. Normally I delete these on sight. I kept this one intact for educational purposes only.
 
Yes, that's where he got it from. My instinct told me that he just pulled some random definition from the internet, so I copied the definition he offered and did a quoted search ("...") of it using Google and his words led me straight to Wikipedia's offered definition of Science.

It was a definition that was, to no surprise, full of misinformation.

Heh. You certainly went further than I normally would have to find the source of his tripe.
 
I was very precise in my wording...


Philosophy is the source... it uses no outside references...


Not at all... It can be edited by just about anyone and it is full of misinformation and incompleteness.


Yes, it also counts as an outside source. Philosophy doesn't make use of outside sources... Oxford Reference does not own or define any words.

Science is defined (by philosophy) as a set of falsifiable theories.
Theory is defined (by logic) as an explanatory argument.

You claim to have been precise in your wording, yet you unable to back up your definitoins with a valid source.. Can you show that you are not just making things up as you go along?
 
You claim to have been precise in your wording, yet you unable to back up your definitoins with a valid source.. Can you show that you are not just making things up as you go along?

He already stated his source:

Philosophy is the source... it uses no outside references...
 
Inversion fallacy.

Yes it does. Argument of the stone fallacy. Denial of philosophy.

...followed by Mantra 12. Normally I delete these on sight. I kept this one intact for educational purposes only.

Repetition fallacy. Philosophy has no more authority to define science any more than it has authority to define airline flight schedules.
 
;):mrgreen::giggle1:






WOW!!!!!

Ignorance on steroids!

Hard to decided who the bigger dope is in both videos.

Why would you post such mindless stupidity.
 
Yeah, because the Bible tells me God created the universe...who tells you the universe has always been?

I can see parts of the Universe.

Time is a construct thought up by humans. Outside of our perception it doesn't really exist. To say the Universe has always existed, is to say it existed before we perceived it, and will exist after we perceive it. There is evidence of this. Observable evidence.

To say that God as defined in the Bible always existed. Is to say that God existed before we perceived it, and will exist after we perceive it. As we do not perceive god at all, and the only proof you have of it's existence is a book that has been altered several times in it's short history. We can not say that God existed before our perception, nor can we say that it will exist after we stop perceiving. Because there is no evidence of god outside of a product of our own imagination. Written by us. As a means of control.

Romans 13

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

That is the point of the bible. That is why only Roman Catholic priests were taught the language the bible was written in for so long. To make you a sheep. To make you obey. And if you don't obey your masters, you will burn for eternity. That is what your bible is. And I will have none of it.

God like time, is a construct we thought up to explain things. But unlike God, the construct of time remains useful.
 
I was very precise in my wording...


Philosophy is the source... it uses no outside references...


Not at all... It can be edited by just about anyone and it is full of misinformation and incompleteness.


Yes, it also counts as an outside source. Philosophy doesn't make use of outside sources... Oxford Reference does not own or define any words.

Science is defined (by philosophy) as a set of falsifiable theories.
Theory is defined (by logic) as an explanatory argument.

Does not matter how precise your words are if they still lack all meaning.

Philosophy examines those outside sources.

You speak of what wiki can be not that it always is. Yours is nothing more than failing to rebut the comment you instead attack the source. Wiki did nothing more here than copy what other sources agree with. Yet you ignore that to make a bad attempt to discredit the source.



It was from a dictionary of philosophy and apparently to you philosophy is an outside source for philosophy.

Honestly, at this stage i am just laughing at the ridiculousness of your comments.
 
Philosophy basically has only one rule. No outside references allowed. The argument to be presented MUST use it's own reasoning as the base.

Philosophy doesn't use Holy Links.

WRONG. It is not accepted by me. That means it is not a valid source just on that point alone. It sound like gfm might be of a similar opinion. I'll let him speak for himself, should he choose to do so.

Philosophy is not a dictionary.

Science is a set of falsifiable theories. That's it. That's all science is.

No dictionary defines any word. No dictionary owns any word. Dictionaries standardize spelling and punctuation, and provide examples on the use of a word. No dictionary is authoritative on the definition of any word.

You and gfm are saying quite similar things. None of it makes any real sense and appears to be more just making crap up to suite yourself.

Here you dis[lay how clueless you are about dictionaries. Go to a library and there are whole shelves of dictionaries devoted to particular subjects. to say they are only used standardize spelling and punctuation is just saying you have no idea how to even use dictionaries.

between you and gfm we all have good examples of just how ignorant christians can be.
 
Repetition fallacy. Philosophy has no more authority to define science any more than it has authority to define airline flight schedules.

He cant show that philosophy actually defines anything or what that definition is.
All we have is his personal unsupported opinion.
 
You and gfm are saying quite similar things. None of it makes any real sense and appears to be more just making crap up to suite yourself.

Here you dis[lay how clueless you are about dictionaries. Go to a library and there are whole shelves of dictionaries devoted to particular subjects. to say they are only used standardize spelling and punctuation is just saying you have no idea how to even use dictionaries.

between you and gfm we all have good examples of just how ignorant christians can be.

ITN makes unsupported claims, and gfm parrots them exactly. But ITN doesn't demand any original "arguments" from gfm. They both seem to think that philosophy and science was just invented in this sub-forum by them. To them, outside sources means any ideas other than their own.
 
This is just a long winded way of saying “nuh uh.”
Inversion Fallacy. YOU are the one doing this, NOT me.

All you are doing is repeating the same unsupported assertions from before. Argument of the Stone.
That is not what the 'Argument of the Stone' fallacy is. An Argument of the Stone is when one dismisses an argument (usually as "absurd") without providing any counter-argument. The fallacy you were looking for here was 'Argument by Repetition', but you are the one who has been committing that fallacy, NOT me. That's another Inversion Fallacy on your part. My having to repeatedly correct your incorrect assertions is NOT an Argument by Repetition. YOUR making the same incorrect assertions time and time again (after I have already corrected them), acting as if repeating them somehow makes them correct, IS the Argument by Repetition fallacy, however.

I, not too long ago, also had little understanding of how logic works. I've been learning though... You can too, if you'd like... ;)

Philosophy has no authority to define squat.
This assertion outright denies what philosophy is (the study of how and why we reason).

This also would explain why your understanding of things such as logic, science, and religion are also lacking, as philosophy is what defines those things.

You are just des-erately trying to justify a poor choice in undergraduate degrees, I think. :lamo
I have an Associates Degree in Accounting. That's it. I have no degrees in philosophy or science or religion or anything else.
 
You claim to have been precise in your wording,
I was. "Philosophy doesn't make use of any outside references" is a quite precise assertion. Philosophy doesn't appeal to Scientific American, nor does it appeal to Wikipedia or an Oxford Dictionary, nor does it appeal to any other outside source.

yet you unable to back up your definitoins with a valid source..
You are denying what philosophy is. You are asking me to support a philosophically rooted definition with an outside source, even though philosophy doesn't make use of any outside sources. That doesn't "compute"...

Also, I'm curious as to what you mean when you say a "valid" source? I feel like you are using the term "valid" as a buzzword... What precisely makes a source "valid", according to you?

Can you show that you are not just making things up as you go along?
Practically apply the philosophical definitions that have been offered... You will see that they make much more sense than the "false authority" definitions you have been offering up... I already destroyed your "method" of how science works, and showed you why science actually works in the way that philosophy has defined it.
 
I was. "Philosophy doesn't make use of any outside references" is a quite precise assertion. Philosophy doesn't appeal to Scientific American, nor does it appeal to Wikipedia or an Oxford Dictionary, nor does it appeal to any other outside source.


You are denying what philosophy is. You are asking me to support a philosophically rooted definition with an outside source, even though philosophy doesn't make use of any outside sources. That doesn't "compute"...

Also, I'm curious as to what you mean when you say a "valid" source? I feel like you are using the term "valid" as a buzzword... What precisely makes a source "valid", according to you?


Practically apply the philosophical definitions that have been offered... You will see that they make much more sense than the "false authority" definitions you have been offering up... I already destroyed your "method" of how science works, and showed you why science actually works in the way that philosophy has defined it.

Now, this is what I would like. Show that the claim 'Philosophy doesn't make use of any outside reference' is accepted by all of philosophy. Prove it. Don't make the claim, don't make other unsupported claims.. Support that claim. Do you know what 'Supporting a claim is'.
 
Does not matter how precise your words are if they still lack all meaning.
So works "lack all meaning" whenever you choose to deny them? Interesting... "Philosophy does not make use of outside references." Which word(s) "lack all meaning"? I can define each and every one of them for you if you'd like...

Philosophy examines those outside sources.
It examines how and why we reason.

You speak of what wiki can be not that it always is.
No idea what you're trying to say here...

Yours is nothing more than failing to rebut the comment you instead attack the source.
False. I noted that the source was a false authority, I noted WHY it was a false authority, and then (out of the goodness of my heart) I even went so far as to pick apart the false authority's definition of science line by line...

I'm not sure what more I can do for ya, soylent...

Wiki did nothing more here than copy what other sources agree with.
Maybe... maybe not... I don't know which "other sources" you speak of, nor does it matter.

Yet you ignore that to make a bad attempt to discredit the source.
False. I noted that the source was a false authority, I noted WHY it was a false authority, and then (out of the goodness of my heart) I even went so far as to pick apart the false authority's definition of science line by line...

I'm not sure what more I can do for ya, soylent...

It was from a dictionary of philosophy
Philosophy doesn't have a dictionary.

and apparently to you philosophy is an outside source for philosophy.
?????????

Honestly, at this stage i am just laughing at the ridiculousness of your comments.
Argument of the Stone.
 
You and gfm are saying quite similar things.
Cool observation.

None of it makes any real sense and appears to be more just making crap up to suite yourself.
It will never make any sense to you as long as you keep making Arguments of the Stone instead of attempting to understand viewpoints which oppose your own.

Here you dis[lay how clueless you are about dictionaries.
He understands dictionaries just fine, as do I.

Go to a library and there are whole shelves of dictionaries devoted to particular subjects.
There sure are.

to say they are only used standardize spelling and punctuation is just saying you have no idea how to even use dictionaries.
To say that is to understand what a dictionary actually is. Sure, dictionaries include sample sentences and sample word definitions regarding how words might be used, and those examples might be helpful, but dictionaries do not own nor do they define any word. Dictionaries are a collection of words. The mere act of collecting words should be enough of a tell that dictionaries are not the source of any word nor its definition.

between you and gfm we all have good examples of just how ignorant christians can be.
Bigotry. Hasty Generalization Fallacy. Composition Fallacy.
 
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ITN makes unsupported claims, and gfm parrots them exactly.
Argument by Repetition Fallacy.

This assertion of yours is subject to the problems of phenomenology. This has not only been shown to you in the Darwinism Descending thread, but you and Threegoofs unintentionally supported my point as well by reaching conflicting conclusions from the same observation... Here is what I explained to you in that thread...

Yes, you are absolutely correct. And I'm not being sarcastic either. You are genuinely correct in your assertion here. You have indeed made an observation, which has resulted in data, which has resulted in the evidence that you present here. --- There is definitely supporting evidence that I, gfm7175, parrot Into The Night. --- The supporting evidence would likely consist of posts where I have made the same exact assertions that ITN has made.

HOWEVER, someone else could make the same observation you did, and yet come up with a completely different conclusion about it (such as, gfm7175 and ITN clearly have the same understanding of various topics).

BUT HOLD YOUR HORSES, a third person could come in, make the same observation you and the second person did, and yet come up with a THIRD conclusion about it (such as, gfm7175 has obviously learned quite a bit from ITN over the last several months).

BUT WAIT ONCE MORE, a fourth person could come in, make the same observation you, the second person, and the third person did, and yet come up with a FOURTH conclusion about it (such as, gfm7175 and ITN are obviously posting using the same keyboard [In other words, they both are the same person]).

I could provide numerous other examples, but I think the point has been made...

Here, the same exact observation by FOUR different people produced FOUR different conclusions. Do you now see the issues with trying to claim and act as if evidence is proof?


But ITN doesn't demand any original "arguments" from gfm.
That would be because gfm makes original arguments, such as gfm's above argument concerning phenomenology. gfm seems to possess much more understanding of philosophical matters than devildavid does.

They both seem to think that philosophy and science was just invented in this sub-forum by them.
Strawman.

To them, outside sources means any ideas other than their own.
False. "Outside sources" means anything outside of reasoning. That would include Wikipedia, Scientific American, Oxford Dictionaries, CNN, FOX, and even The Bible.
 
Now, this is what I would like. Show that the claim 'Philosophy doesn't make use of any outside reference' is accepted by all of philosophy.
The mere action of practicing philosophy supports my claim.

Prove it.
Philosophy is an open functional system. That type of system does not have the power of proof.

Don't make the claim, don't make other unsupported claims.. Support that claim. ...deleted 'lack of intelligence' mantra...
The mere action of practicing philosophy supports my claim.
 
ITN makes unsupported claims, and gfm parrots them exactly. But ITN doesn't demand any original "arguments" from gfm. They both seem to think that philosophy and science was just invented in this sub-forum by them. To them, outside sources means any ideas other than their own.

This is nothing new. Christians like them seek support and justification by lowering the standards of philosophy and science to their own superstitious faith based belief or try to pretend that christianity deserves to be treated at the same level as philosophy or science.

To make it even worse they are trying a dishonest debate trick of attacking the arguer instead of the argument by claiming anything they disagree with must be a fallacy.
 
So works "lack all meaning" whenever you choose to deny them? Interesting... "Philosophy does not make use of outside references." Which word(s) "lack all meaning"? I can define each and every one of them for you if you'd like...


It examines how and why we reason.


No idea what you're trying to say here...


False. I noted that the source was a false authority, I noted WHY it was a false authority, and then (out of the goodness of my heart) I even went so far as to pick apart the false authority's definition of science line by line...

I'm not sure what more I can do for ya, soylent...


Maybe... maybe not... I don't know which "other sources" you speak of, nor does it matter.


False. I noted that the source was a false authority, I noted WHY it was a false authority, and then (out of the goodness of my heart) I even went so far as to pick apart the false authority's definition of science line by line...

I'm not sure what more I can do for ya, soylent...


Philosophy doesn't have a dictionary.


?????????


Argument of the Stone.

You can define the words but they still lack any meaning. Philosophy is quite capable of philosophising on any source.

And no, you made a generalisation about wiki not a credible rebuttal of the source. One proven wrong by the simple fact that the particular wiki reference is nothing more than a copy of references from other sources.

And yes philosophy does have a dictionary you can find it on line or in your local library. Many differing branches of knowledge have dictionaries. Your claim that they are only for spelling demonstrates only an uneducated opinion.
 
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