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Nothing made everything....

I did that already. You didn't listen.

Laws are simple, usually expressed in a formula. Acceleration = Force / Mass. There's nothing here explaining the why and the how of that. Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation: F = G((m1*m2)/r^2)

But that doesn't explain why mass is attracted to other mass.
And I've already explained... You can't have a scientific law unless you have a scientific theory which leads to that law... Otherwise, what are you even basing that law on?


A theory is a broader explanation of the why and the how.
A theory is an explanatory argument.

Both laws and theories are well-supported by testing and evidence.
Science doesn't concern itself with supporting evidence.

And none of it is really ever final.
Irrational reasoning... (if I remember your past paradoxes correctly; I really should keep a log of these)

Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation is actually... wrong, kinda. His calculations worked perfectly for the entire known solar system... except Mercury. There was a tiny, tiny discrepancy in the orbit of Mercury. Super tiny. Arcseconds per century tiny. But Newton was unable to resolve it. Einstein figured that one out. Relativity.
I'm still learning when it comes to various theories and laws, since I was never interested in science while growing up, so I don't have enough knowledge about what you are asserting here to properly address it... I think Into The Night has addressed this very assertion though... I thought Einstein didn't falsify Newton? But again, I don't have enough knowledge about these things to properly address them.

A null hypothesis is really just a statement that there is no relationship. "I hypothesize that eating tacos causes skin cancer."
Wrong. You aren't making a null hypothesis there; you are on your way to coming up with a theory though (you lack the explanatory part of it)... A null hypothesis to that potential theory of yours would be "eating tacos does NOT cause skin cancer because of such and such"...

Surviving one test doesn't create a theory. Failing one test can disprove it, though.
Surviving one test against the null hypothesis creates a scientific theory... If not, then precisely how many tests are necessary, and why is it that number? Three tests? six tests? twenty? two hundred? ... ...
 
Big difference...none of them are the Creator of life...

A mother creates a life, so she has a right to kill her children? Interesting.
 
And I've already explained... You can't have a scientific law unless you have a scientific theory which leads to that law... Otherwise, what are you even basing that law on?



A theory is an explanatory argument.


Science doesn't concern itself with supporting evidence.


Irrational reasoning... (if I remember your past paradoxes correctly; I really should keep a log of these)


I'm still learning when it comes to various theories and laws, since I was never interested in science while growing up, so I don't have enough knowledge about what you are asserting here to properly address it... I think Into The Night has addressed this very assertion though... I thought Einstein didn't falsify Newton? But again, I don't have enough knowledge about these things to properly address them.


Wrong. You aren't making a null hypothesis there; you are on your way to coming up with a theory though (you lack the explanatory part of it)... A null hypothesis to that potential theory of yours would be "eating tacos does NOT cause skin cancer because of such and such"...


Surviving one test against the null hypothesis creates a scientific theory... If not, then precisely how many tests are necessary, and why is it that number? Three tests? six tests? twenty? two hundred? ... ...

https://www.livescience.com/21457-what-is-a-law-in-science-definition-of-scientific-law.html

You invented a bunch of definitions. They're wrong.
 
A mother creates a life, so she has a right to kill her children? Interesting.

Not quite...it takes 2 to make a baby...that is not creating, where it only take One...who created the sperm and the egg?
 
Not quite...it takes 2 to make a baby...that is not creating, where it only take One...who created the sperm and the egg?

So both parents have the right to kill their child, perhaps only if they both agree.

You think this somehow makes the argument better?
 
So both parents have the right to kill their child, perhaps only if they both agree.

You think this somehow makes the argument better?

Nope...they did not give that baby life...Jehovah did...
 
...deleted misuse of a holy link...

You invented a bunch of definitions. They're wrong.
Argument of the Stone fallacy.
False Authority Fallacy.

Alina Bradford (Live Science Contributor) is not the final authority for word definitions.

I'll even go through her article and give you a small sampling of my thoughts on it, just to begin to show how full of BS it is...

First off, a scientific law is not "the description of an observed phenomenon"... Under that vague definition, just about anything could be a scientific law. Then, I could say that my description of a catbird singing (one of my favorite birds btw) is a scientific law. --- However, the article later goes on to give multiple other conflicting definitions of what a "scientific law" is, depending on who is offering the definition, so who knows what it actually means according to this 'holy link'...

Secondly, how are "laws" a "starting place"? I thought "collecting data" was the "starting place"? According to this article, one's "starting place" is, for example, the 2nd law of thermodynamics, THEN one asks "why and how" it works... Wouldn't one instead have to know how and why it works BEFORE they can formalize it? --- But here, apparently "laws" are the "starting point", NOT "collecting data"... And Alina, like all the others, does not spell out what this "scientific method" actually is... She later asserts that "facts, theories, laws, and hypotheses are separate parts of the scientific method", yet she still doesn't describe this "method" in any way...

Thirdly, there are no such thing as "scientific facts", just "facts"... And "facts" are NOT "simple, basic observations that have been shown to be true." Science does not PROVE anything... Science is an open functional system, so it does NOT have the power of proof. "Facts" are shorthand predicate accepted by all involved parties. That's all "facts" are... Facts are NOT "universal truths"...

I could detail many other things, but I think that's a good start as to why this article is complete BS...
 
Argument of the Stone fallacy.
False Authority Fallacy.

Alina Bradford (Live Science Contributor) is not the final authority for word definitions.

I'll even go through her article and give you a small sampling of my thoughts on it, just to begin to show how full of BS it is...

First off, a scientific law is not "the description of an observed phenomenon"... Under that vague definition, just about anything could be a scientific law. Then, I could say that my description of a catbird singing (one of my favorite birds btw) is a scientific law. --- However, the article later goes on to give multiple other conflicting definitions of what a "scientific law" is, depending on who is offering the definition, so who knows what it actually means according to this 'holy link'...

Secondly, how are "laws" a "starting place"? I thought "collecting data" was the "starting place"? According to this article, one's "starting place" is, for example, the 2nd law of thermodynamics, THEN one asks "why and how" it works... Wouldn't one instead have to know how and why it works BEFORE they can formalize it? --- But here, apparently "laws" are the "starting point", NOT "collecting data"... And Alina, like all the others, does not spell out what this "scientific method" actually is... She later asserts that "facts, theories, laws, and hypotheses are separate parts of the scientific method", yet she still doesn't describe this "method" in any way...

Thirdly, there are no such thing as "scientific facts", just "facts"... And "facts" are NOT "simple, basic observations that have been shown to be true." Science does not PROVE anything... Science is an open functional system, so it does NOT have the power of proof. "Facts" are shorthand predicate accepted by all involved parties. That's all "facts" are... Facts are NOT "universal truths"...

I could detail many other things, but I think that's a good start as to why this article is complete BS...

You ignored the "well supported by evidence' part.

So, what makes you the arbiter of these definitions? You keep bringing up Argument of the Stone. What is it you think you're doing? You just declare definitions. "These are what I say they are because they are." Over and over.
 
You ignored the "well supported by evidence' part.
Because science does not concern itself with supporting evidence. Allowing supporting evidence into science also allows religion to be considered scientific, which creates numerous paradoxes.

So, what makes you the arbiter of these definitions?
I'm not... Philosophy is. (when it comes to words such as science, religion, logic, etc...)

You keep bringing up Argument of the Stone.
Because you keep committing that logical fallacy.

What is it you think you're doing?
Attempting to correct people who have absolutely no clue about what they are spouting off...

You just declare definitions. "These are what I say they are because they are." Over and over.
I am not "declaring definitions"... these definitions stem from philosophy...
 
So when you said it takes two to make a baby, you lied?

Is new matter coming into existence? No, so no creating is being done between the male and female...the egg and sperm unite, combining DNA from both parties...that process has continued back to the 1st human pair, which Jehovah God created....
 
Because science does not concern itself with supporting evidence. Allowing supporting evidence into science also allows religion to be considered scientific, which creates numerous paradoxes.


I'm not... Philosophy is. (when it comes to words such as science, religion, logic, etc...)


Because you keep committing that logical fallacy.


Attempting to correct people who have absolutely no clue about what they are spouting off...


I am not "declaring definitions"... these definitions stem from philosophy...

Ahh, that's your problem. You're using philosophical definitions in a scientific context.

When an aerospace engineer calls something a "scoop," in an engineering context, it takes one stupid journalist to declare that he's wrong because he's not bringing light to a story nobody else has gotten onto yet.
 
Is new matter coming into existence? No, so no creating is being done between the male and female...the egg and sperm unite, combining DNA from both parties...that process has continued back to the 1st human pair, which Jehovah God created....

Convenient. That way, God is allowed to murder whoever and nobody can object, eh?
I object to mass murderers no matter their supposed justification.
 
To rephrase devildavid's question: what if the universe has always existed?

You mean like some kind of God, right? Or is this the new standard of scientific proof: "Because it just is, that's why."
 
It's still wrong. Theories can't turn into a law.

Theories can and do have a law associated with them. A theory of science only describes, it cannot predict. The power of prediction does not exist in science. Science is an open functional system. To gain that power, you must turn to a closed functional system such as mathematics or logic. Only in such systems comes the power of the formal proof, and with that power, the power of prediction.

Thus, for any theory of science to gain the power of prediction, that theory must be converted into the closed function system. That process is called 'formalizing' a theory. The result is called a 'law'.

A scientific law is not the theory itself. The theory itself still exists and still remains a theory (until it is destroyed by falsification). The 'law'. is the formalized representation of the theory into a closed functional system, to give that theory power of prediction.
 
You mean like some kind of God, right? Or is this the new standard of scientific proof: "Because it just is, that's why."

Both the existence of an Uncaused Cause and an infinitely existential universe are brute facts. If you're willing to accept the possibility of one, you must necessarily accept the possibility of the other.
 
Convenient. That way, God is allowed to murder whoever and nobody can object, eh?
I object to mass murderers no matter their supposed justification.

If you know of a higher rank, go for it...who are you to object to anything God does? :giggle1:
 
Theories can and do have a law associated with them. A theory of science only describes, it cannot predict. The power of prediction does not exist in science. Science is an open functional system. To gain that power, you must turn to a closed functional system such as mathematics or logic. Only in such systems comes the power of the formal proof, and with that power, the power of prediction.

Thus, for any theory of science to gain the power of prediction, that theory must be converted into the closed function system. That process is called 'formalizing' a theory. The result is called a 'law'.

A scientific law is not the theory itself. The theory itself still exists and still remains a theory (until it is destroyed by falsification). The 'law'. is the formalized representation of the theory into a closed functional system, to give that theory power of prediction.

Define what you perceive "open functional system" and "closed functional system."
 
If you know of a higher rank, go for it...who are you to object to anything God does? :giggle1:

Who is he to murder children and declare me sinful before I've committed a sin?
 
I did that already. You didn't listen.
Inversion fallacy. It is YOU that is not listening.
Laws are simple, usually expressed in a formula. Acceleration = Force / Mass.
This is correct. A law of science is a theory that has been formalized into a closed functional system, such as mathematics.
There's nothing here explaining the why and the how of that.
Yes there is. The theory behind Newton's law of motion (otherwise known as the Theory of Motion) states that all motion is nothing more than mass subjected to a force, which also causes an acceleration of that mass.
Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation: F = G((m1*m2)/r^2)
This is the formalized version of that theory. It it is properly called a law.
But that doesn't explain why mass is attracted to other mass.
Neither does the theory this equation comes from. The Theory of Universal Gravitation states that all masses have a thing called 'gravity', which exerts a force on other masses. The distance between the masses matter, as well as the sizes of the masses. By coupling this theory with the Theory of Motion, that force will necessarily cause an acceleration.
A theory is a broader explanation of the why and the how.
I just gave it.
Both laws and theories are well-supported by testing and evidence.
WRONG. The laws stem from the theories themselves. Theories can come from anywhere at any time and for any reason. They may come from an observation, they may come from sleeping. They may come from watching an episode of Sponge Bob. They may come from an unrelated area of study. Newton's theory of motion came from generalizing the ramifications of Galileo's Law, and from Kepler's Laws, and by eliminating the effects of gravity as a force.
His theory of universal gravitation was inspired by that same generalization, but also including his own theory of motion.
And none of it is really ever final.
The falsification of a theory is final. A falsified theory is utterly destroyed. No theory is ever proven. No supporting evidence is used in any theory of science.
Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation is actually... wrong, kinda.
WRONG. It is completely accurate.
His calculations worked perfectly for the entire known solar system... except Mercury.
It works for Mercury too, completely accurately. So does Kepler's laws. There is nothing special about the way Mercury moves as opposed to any other planet.
There was a tiny, tiny discrepancy in the orbit of Mercury.
WRONG. Mercury is right where it's supposed to be according to Newton's and Kepler's laws.
Super tiny. Arcseconds per century tiny.
ZERO.
But Newton was unable to resolve it. Einstein figured that one out. Relativity.
The theory of relativity does not address the Mercury 'problem'. The Theory of Special Relativity, however, does.
What Einstein showed was why there was an apparent deviation from Mercury's position from where it was supposed to be. Mercury is, in fact, right where it's supposed to be. The problem is we can't see where it's supposed to be. The problem is observation, not the location of the planet itself.
Mercury is quite close to the sun. Our view of it is distorted by the strong gravitational field of the Sun. Mercury itself hasn't moved, our view of it is wrong. Einstein showed why.

Newton's laws still apply, even to Mercury, entirely accurately. So do Kepler's laws...entirely accurately. What we see is different than what is, according to Einstein.

A null hypothesis is really just a statement that there is no relationship. "I hypothesize that eating tacos causes skin cancer."
WRONG. The null hypothesis of a theory is the question, "How can I show this theory to be wrong?". Your statement concerning tacos is a theory, not a hypothesis. A theory is an explanatory argument.
Surviving one test doesn't create a theory.
True. A theory exists before any tests of any kind are conducted upon it's null hypothesis.
Failing one test can disprove it, though.
A successful test upon the null hypothesis of a theory falsifies that theory. At that point the theory is utterly destroyed.
 
Big difference...none of them are the Creator of life...

Correct. The creator of life cannot murder. It is completely within his rights and authority to destroy is own creation.
 
Inversion fallacy. It is YOU that is not listening.

This is correct. A law of science is a theory that has been formalized into a closed functional system, such as mathematics.

Yes there is. The theory behind Newton's law of motion (otherwise known as the Theory of Motion) states that all motion is nothing more than mass subjected to a force, which also causes an acceleration of that mass.

This is the formalized version of that theory. It it is properly called a law.

Neither does the theory this equation comes from. The Theory of Universal Gravitation states that all masses have a thing called 'gravity', which exerts a force on other masses. The distance between the masses matter, as well as the sizes of the masses. By coupling this theory with the Theory of Motion, that force will necessarily cause an acceleration.

I just gave it.

WRONG. The laws stem from the theories themselves. Theories can come from anywhere at any time and for any reason. They may come from an observation, they may come from sleeping. They may come from watching an episode of Sponge Bob. They may come from an unrelated area of study. Newton's theory of motion came from generalizing the ramifications of Galileo's Law, and from Kepler's Laws, and by eliminating the effects of gravity as a force.
His theory of universal gravitation was inspired by that same generalization, but also including his own theory of motion.

The falsification of a theory is final. A falsified theory is utterly destroyed. No theory is ever proven. No supporting evidence is used in any theory of science.

WRONG. It is completely accurate.

It works for Mercury too, completely accurately. So does Kepler's laws. There is nothing special about the way Mercury moves as opposed to any other planet.

WRONG. Mercury is right where it's supposed to be according to Newton's and Kepler's laws.

ZERO.

The theory of relativity does not address the Mercury 'problem'. The Theory of Special Relativity, however, does.
What Einstein showed was why there was an apparent deviation from Mercury's position from where it was supposed to be. Mercury is, in fact, right where it's supposed to be. The problem is we can't see where it's supposed to be. The problem is observation, not the location of the planet itself.
Mercury is quite close to the sun. Our view of it is distorted by the strong gravitational field of the Sun. Mercury itself hasn't moved, our view of it is wrong. Einstein showed why.

Newton's laws still apply, even to Mercury, entirely accurately. So do Kepler's laws...entirely accurately. What we see is different than what is, according to Einstein.


WRONG. The null hypothesis of a theory is the question, "How can I show this theory to be wrong?". Your statement concerning tacos is a theory, not a hypothesis. A theory is an explanatory argument.

True. A theory exists before any tests of any kind are conducted upon it's null hypothesis.

A successful test upon the null hypothesis of a theory falsifies that theory. At that point the theory is utterly destroyed.

Wrong.
 
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