Not Even the President Can Declassify Nuclear Secrets (1 Viewer)

[Craig234]

He'll just have more egg on his fat face and maybe lose the opportunity to run again.

What is up with the fat shaming. But it appears nothing will prevent him from being able to run again. What could have is if Republicans had voted to convict him in the impeachment. The other possibility is the prohibition on insurrectionists running.

 

[cpwill]

Firstly there is a process for declassifying, and a paper trail. Trump can't just say, "Well I declassified them," and it's retroactively true

POTUS can declassify at will. Trump cannot say "I declassify them retroactively", he can only declassify while POTUS.

. Odds are high they are still classified. Furthermore, he had these very likely still classified docs in his possession at his private house, 18 months after leaving office, not as president, so he cannot use that excuse.

Finally with the kind of Bozos on Trump's legal team, I don't think the prosecution is going to have a hard time making this stick at all. They would have had to be sure it was almost airtight just to seek the warrant.

Don't worry though, h probably won't go to jail: the system is set up to protect men like Trump. He'll just have more egg on his fat face and maybe lose the opportunity to run again.

I think this is going to be a lot more difficult than you imagine.

 

[cpwill]

The process still requires RECORDS. He can’t declassify things in a vacuum. There has to be records of it because declassification effects EVERY COPY of a classified document.

According to the process that depends upon Presidential Authority, that's correct. For you and me, that's a legal requirement.

However, because it derives from him, he can use that information as he pleases, and ignore the process if he wants. Same is true of the OCA 's POTUS has designated, who are free to downgrade their own information while retaining a different classification for the rest of USG.

 

[Questerr]

According to the process that depends upon Presidential Authority, that's correct. For you and me, that's a legal requirement.

However, because it derives from him, he can use that information as he pleases, and ignore the process if he wants. Same is true of the OCA 's POTUS has designated, who are free to downgrade their own information while retaining a different classification for the rest of USG.

He cannot ignore the process. And no, you can’t declassify a single copy of a report and leave the rest classified. It’s all or none.

 

[Decypher]

If the president can “declassify at will”, what does that actually look like? Does he just say “I hereby declassify this document”? Surely he has to tell someone and it has to be written down somewhere? Or can he just wave his hand in an empty room?

 

[jnug]

He cannot ignore the process. And no, you can’t declassify a single copy of a report and leave the rest classified. It’s all or none.

A case can be made that the President can ignore process. There is what is legal or illegal and what is impractical, illogical and unworkable. As we have been made to understand over the last 5 years, the Founders did not calculate that the citizenry would ever elect such an unscrupulous, self-absorbed, narcissistic utterly vapid, plastic public servant as Donald Trump. Much of what we have for a country is based on Law but lots is based on common sense and logic. Donald Trump cares not for common sense nor logic. He barely cares for the Law. Donald Trump only cares for what is advantageous to him personally. What he claims to have done is impractical, illogical and unworkable. If used regularly the entire engine of National Security would grind to a halt. Trump is not an emperor and not a king and NO he does not have the right to grind the gears of National Security to a halt as a King might if we had one.

There is ignoring process and then there is not even marking what you are claiming are declassified documents as declassified. I suspect Trump DID NOT declassify any of the documents and is just claiming he did now.

So as I have said elsewhere, when it comes to holding Trump accountable through criminal prosecution for this there are three statutes called out in the warrant and 1519 is likely the easiest to prove against somebody, Trump or Trump underling. However, do we really want THIS GUY back in the oval again? In truth there was no such thing as National Security with Trump in the WH. So forget that. In addition, dozens of GOP Senators and Congressmen have been careening wildly from pillar to post, their clown car barely able to keep three wheels on the ground, never mind four. All the while they are dangerously inciting violence. Do we really want to put them back on The Hill?

 

[BirdinHand]

If trump had nuclear documents in his home he can't claim he declassified them.

All nuclear documents are automatically classified and the president can't declassify them.

So if he had nuclear documents in mar a largo, he has violated a law he signed making what he did a felony.

If he did have nuclear documents at mar a largo, why and what was he going to do with them?

MSN

www.msn.com

So…where do you start the jury selection for this crime to convict him of a felony?

 

[Deuce]

That's the law, it definitely applies.

And it is why they are going to have a very difficult time with this, if that's what they are prosecuting based on.

The majority of classified information Hilary was storing was State department information - stuff she owned as SECSTATE because she was the OCA for that data. As POTUS, Trump would have been the authority for all of it :-/.

If the documents were not marked as declassified, then they are not declassified.

 

[Deuce]

So…where do you start the jury selection for this crime to convict him of a felony?

You just have to reject anyone in the country who voted for him, as they are not a reasonable and open-minded person able to assess the facts.

 

[BirdinHand]

You just have to reject anyone in the country who voted for him, as they are not a reasonable and open-minded person able to assess the facts.

No way to verify that…so can’t use that yardstick.

 

[cpwill]

If the documents were not marked as declassified, then they are not declassified.

That is somewhat true, unless it's an OCA. SECDEF, for example, could declassify department of defense information through the process of standing on one foot while eating a banana and yelling hocus pocus, if he wanted to, or simply via the process of deciding it was so.

Again, stuff like this is why it's important to staff these high level positions appropriately.

 

[Deuce]

That is somewhat true, unless it's an OCA. SECDEF, for example, could declassify department of defense information through the process of standing on one foot while eating a banana and yelling hocus pocus, if he wanted to, or simply via the process of deciding it was so.

Again, stuff like this is why it's important to staff these high level positions appropriately.

If nobody ever documented the declassification, then it didn't happen. Trump can claim whatever he wants. He's not president right now, he can't declassify them now, and if there's absolutely no evidence he ever did that, none of us are under any obligation to care.

 

[cpwill]

If the president can “declassify at will”, what does that actually look like? Does he just say “I hereby declassify this document”? Surely he has to tell someone and it has to be written down somewhere? Or can he just wave his hand in an empty room?

He or she can do it however they please - they are the "owners" in the parlance, of that information. If something is marked "SECRET//NOFORN", and POTUS decided "the American people must know this", he could take picture and post it on Twitter, if he wanted - and, in fact, Trump once did something like that.

 

[ClaraD]

If trump had nuclear documents in his home he can't claim he declassified them.

All nuclear documents are automatically classified and the president can't declassify them.

So if he had nuclear documents in mar a largo, he has violated a law he signed making what he did a felony.

If he did have nuclear documents at mar a largo, why and what was he going to do with them?

MSN

www.msn.com

He can't wave a wand and declassify anything...it has to be made known that it was declassified while still president. Further, all of it is still government property and not his. You are correct that he cannot declassify top secret nuke documents...also, those have to stay in a very secure area so only He could have removed them

 

[cpwill]

If nobody ever documented the declassification, then it didn't happen

That is incorrect, and certainly - as far as I am aware - not laid out in law. For example, the agencies occasionally reduce the classification of their own information for their own purposes, whole keeping it at a higher classification for everyone else and other uses.

. Trump can claim whatever he wants. He's not president right now, he can't declassify them now, and if there's absolutely no evidence he ever did that, none of us are under any obligation to care.

If he says he did, then, it's messed up, but, there is no way to prove he didn't, since the only thing necessary for him to do so would have been to decide it.

Again, this is one of the reasons why we shouldn't elect idiot children president.

 

[ClaraD]

POTUS can declassify at will. Trump cannot say "I declassify them retroactively", he can only declassify while POTUS.




I think this is going to be a lot more difficult than you imagine.

POTUS cannot declassify nuclear secrets

 

[Deuce]

That is incorrect, and certainly - as far as I am aware - not laid out in law. For example, the agencies occasionally reduce the classification of their own information for their own purposes, whole keeping it at a higher classification for everyone else and other uses.



If he says he did, then, it's messed up, but, there is no way to prove he didn't, since the only thing necessary for him to do so would have been to decide it.

Again, this is one of the reasons why we shouldn't elect idiot children president.

"Can't prove he didn't" isn't gonna matter.

 

[cpwill]

He can't wave a wand and declassify anything...it has to be made known that it was declassified while still president.

That is not correct.

Further, all of it is still government property and not his.

That is correct.

You are correct that he cannot declassify top secret nuke documents...

This seems to be not correct.

also, those have to stay in a very secure area so only He could have removed them

And that is not correct - anyone with access to them could have.

 

[cpwill]

"Can't prove he didn't" isn't gonna matter.

Unless you are charging him with a crime for it.

Court of public opinion? Bit of a wash: his fans will insist he did Because He Says So, And Donny Would Never Lie To Me, those who hate him will insist he didn't, and the rest of us will roll our eyes.

But court of law? Very different pickle.

 

[ClaraD]

That is not correct.



That is correct.




This seems to be not correct.



And that is not correct - anyone with access to them could have.

Very few have access and yes, I'm correct the president cannot declassify nuclear secrets

Trump claims Mar-a-Lago documents were 'declassified.' Why experts reject that argument.

Experts said constitutional powers authorizing a president to declassify documents don't apply to records classified as top-secret or higher

www.usatoday.com

 

[Deuce]

Unless you are charging him with a crime for it.

Court of public opinion? Bit of a wash: his fans will insist he did Because He Says So, And Donny Would Never Lie To Me, those who hate him will insist he didn't, and the rest of us will roll our eyes.

But court of law? Very different pickle.

A document that is still marked classified is by default assumed to be classified.

 

[Helix]

Maybe candidates ought to have to qualify for a security clearance before running for president.

 

[uptower]

POTUS can declassify at will. Trump cannot say "I declassify them retroactively", he can only declassify while POTUS.

I think this is going to be a lot more difficult than you imagine.

And he has to demonstrate he did, since he's only claiming it now. Frankly I've no reason to believe him. He's hardly been proven a man of his word.

 

[cpwill]

Very few have access and yes, I'm correct the president cannot declassify nuclear secrets

Trump claims Mar-a-Lago documents were 'declassified.' Why experts reject that argument.

Experts said constitutional powers authorizing a president to declassify documents don't apply to records classified as top-secret or higher

www.usatoday.com

Paywall blocks the story - I'm assuming this is a reference to the fact that, according to Statute, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has oversight of Restricted Data that's been brought up here a couple of times to make this claim.

So, if you look into the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Declassification Program However, if you take a look, you will see that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission falls under the authority of Executive Order (ie: POTUS) for this process, the same as any other federal agency that handles classified information

The NRC's Declassification Process​

​

Executive Order 13256 prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information. (As such, this new Order replaces Executive Order 12958, which President Clinton issued in 1995 and President Bush subsequently amended in 2003.) As specified in the Executive Order, when information is originally classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret), an original classification authority must establish a specific date or event for declassification based on the duration of the national security sensitivity of the information. Moreover, Section 3.1 of the Executive Order requires information to be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification.​

​

Under the NRC's Declassification Program, all classified documents are reviewed for automatic declassification not later than 25 years from the date of the document. Classification determinations are based upon classification guides developed by the U.S. Government. Information may only be declassified by (1) the official who authorized the original classification, (2) a supervisory official (or successor) of the originating classification authority, or (3) agency subject matter experts who have been delegated declassification authority in writing by the NRC. Information that continues to meet the classification requirements of the Executive Order warrants continued protection. Thus, in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Executive Order, NRC senior officials may exempt from automatic declassification certain specific classified information.​

​

A document that is identified as a candidate for declassification will be reviewed by a subject matter expert, who is also an authorized derivative classifier. If the subject matter expert determines that the document is no longer considered classified, it will be recommended for declassification. However, if another Federal agency originated the classified information, the document will be referred back to that agency for declassification review.​

 

[cpwill]

And he has to demonstrate he did, since he's only claiming it now. Frankly I've no reason to believe him. He's hardly been proven a man of his word.

Look, he's a liar and a con man - there's no reason to believe him. Unfortunately, in terms of authority, his word is all he needs.

Again, this is why we shouldn't staff senior levels of our government with immoral people.