Norway deports muslims - crime rate drops by 31%

Mind you, this story is from 2014:

LiveLeak.com - IS ANYBODY SURPRISED? NORWAY DEPORTS MUSLIMS, CRIME RATE DROPS 31%

I would like to see the results of one year of implementing this policy. And would also like more European nations to considere it.

Err this article stinks of being a propaganda piece written by some right winger who hates Muslims.

Look at the article.

1) The source (which is not linked) is "Oslo local news".. does not exist as far as I can tell from a search.

2) The violent crime decline is mentioned once, without any links to the actual statistics, let alone any study that links the decline to deportations of Muslims.

3) Using % is a classic way of hiding the truth. It sounds like a big number but is it? What is the violent crime number overall? And 31% compared to what year or month? It is a trick often used. 100 to 69 cases of violent crime is 31%.. but to be fair.. 100 cases of violent crime is not much relative to other nations.

4) Then there are very dodgy comments.

A percentage of those deported in 2014 were asylum seekers who had their application for continued asylum rejected. They were then deported along with their families.

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What? "A percentage"? Someone forget to add the % number or something?

The majority of deportees, however, had committed crimes, or had returned illegally to Norway after being deported.

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This comment is also strange. Because it is in the same paragraph as the above, and because it is in an article about Muslims, then people automatically think that the deportees were Muslim. But were they? I suspect very much that they were not, but were in fact Europeans... Danes, Swedes, Poles and so on because in pretty much all other countries that is the fact. Why? Because it is far far easier to deport a Dane or Pole than it is an Iraqi or Syrian... even in Norway.

Then there is this comment.

Norway’s government has ruled that 7,100 people will be deported in 2014. At the end of October, PU had deported 5,876 people so far this year.

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Eh? compared to what year? And where is a link to the government policy that states they are deporting Muslims, let alone set a target? The article is implying basically that all these deported are Muslims and does very little to prove this.

5 The last 2 paragraphs kind of seal the deal of this article being a hatchet job by some sort of anti-Muslim racist and not a factual based comment.

From the article:

Beginning this past January, the new Norwegian Prime Minister, Erna Solberg began a program which targets and deports Muslims who have ties to radical groups.

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Why does islam have to be a pre-requisite? Why can't it just be any immigrants with ties to radical groups?

Also, I agree with Pete that this article lacks legitimacy.

PeteEU said:

Err this article stinks of being a propaganda piece written by some right winger who hates Muslims.

Look at the article.

1) The source (which is not linked) is "Oslo local news".. does not exist as far as I can tell from a search.

2) The violent crime decline is mentioned once, without any links to the actual statistics, let alone any study that links the decline to deportations of Muslims.

3) Using % is a classic way of hiding the truth. It sounds like a big number but is it? What is the violent crime number overall? And 31% compared to what year or month? It is a trick often used. 100 to 69 cases of violent crime is 31%.. but to be fair.. 100 cases of violent crime is not much relative to other nations.

4) Then there are very dodgy comments.



What? "A percentage"? Someone forget to add the % number or something?



This comment is also strange. Because it is in the same paragraph as the above, and because it is in an article about Muslims, then people automatically think that the deportees were Muslim. But were they? I suspect very much that they were not, but were in fact Europeans... Danes, Swedes, Poles and so on because in pretty much all other countries that is the fact. Why? Because it is far far easier to deport a Dane or Pole than it is an Iraqi or Syrian... even in Norway.

Then there is this comment.



Eh? compared to what year? And where is a link to the government policy that states they are deporting Muslims, let alone set a target? The article is implying basically that all these deported are Muslims and does very little to prove this.

5 The last 2 paragraphs kind of seal the deal of this article being a hatchet job by some sort of anti-Muslim racist and not a factual based comment.

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Are you a Muslim, Pete?

Cause I'm a Swede, and it's pretty much common sense in Sweden. If you deported the Muslims, crime would drop significantly. Don't need any fancy studies to show that, just practical experience.

Answer the question, though.

Peter Grimm said:

Are you a Muslim, Pete?

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Nope I am a hybrid.. part Jew, part Christian and both non practising.

Cause I'm a Swede, and it's pretty much common sense in Sweden. If you deported the Muslims, crime would drop significantly. Don't need any fancy studies to show that, just practical experience.

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There is a difference in common sense and actual facts. That your hatred towards Muslims leads you to believe that crime rates actually go down because they get deported..but think of the following..

Is it only Muslims that get deported? Of course not, far far from it. Could it be the deportation other population groups that might be the reason for a drop in crime rates? Could it be longer sentences of repeat offenders, which means less crime.. since they are in jail? And the big one.. do they register people based on religion? nope!

They deport Muslims who have ties to radical groups which is fine and all but is that really a solution? Will it really stop Muslims from being radicalized? No. The only solution is through the state having more control over its Muslim communities. Right now they are practically an autonomous group. This leads to situations like this one. It's bad. More control over the education system, preventing incitements and stopping the radicalization of young Muslims. That would be a beginning. It's all about the education.

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The article "Live Leak" story came from, is a site called; PoliticalEars.com. In the "About Us", it states;


I guess people keep mistaking their site as a fake news site containing satire. The OP's news story rather confirms that.

Apocalypse said:

More control over the education system, preventing incitements and stopping the radicalization of young Muslims. That would be a beginning. It's all about the education.

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True words. In Germany we have catholic or protestant Religion as school subject, or optional ethic if you left church. Why not Islam as option?

Paxaeon said:

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The article "Live Leak" story came from, is a site called; PoliticalEars.com. In the "About Us", it states;

"PoliticalEars.com is a conservative political website which focuses on news and opinion from a Conservative perspective.

There has been a question of whether PoliticalEars.com is a satirical (fake news) site after the ALS story ran last year. No, we are not. The ALS Association changed their numbers after the story ran, they readily admit to an accounting "anomaly", and then accused us of being satire in order to save face. They then link to a satire list on the "Big List of Websites" hoping that you won't notice that PoliticalEars.com is not and has never been listed as satire on that website. We stand by the story 100%.

Another site, realorsatire.com picked up on our April Fool's story last year and deemed us to be satire as well. If that's the case, then CNN, ABC News, and others who run April Fool's jokes are also satire. (They aren't, and neither are we)." - source​

I guess people keep mistaking their site as a fake news site containing satire. The OP's news story rather confirms that.

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Then why no links to back up their accusations? And Live Leak is hardly a "news site".

This topic is baitspam.
By the way...
Europe’s far right still loves Putin - The Washington Post

PeteEU said:

Then why no links to back up their accusations? And Live Leak is hardly a "news site".

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In my opinion, there are too many supposed news sites on both sides of the ideological spectrum, who do not produce news themselves or act as a conduit and allow authors to post theirs. Instead, they take news from other sources (occasionally without links) and just add their own commentary. While such venues have their place in the scheme of things, I sometimes view such new presentation as being a tad bit disingenuous.
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Paxaeon said:

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In my opinion, there are too many supposed news sites on both sides of the ideological spectrum, who do not produce news themselves or act as a conduit and allow authors to post theirs. Instead, they take news from other sources (occasionally without links) and just add their own commentary. While such venues have their place in the scheme of things, I sometimes view such new presentation as being a tad bit disingenuous.
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Yes there are, and even some of the real news sites are turning into supposed news sites because of their utter bias.. and that is a major problem.

PeteEU said:

Err this article stinks of being a propaganda piece written by some right winger who hates Muslims.
Look at the article.
1) The source (..not linked) is "Oslo local news".. does not exist as far as I can tell from a search.
2) The violent crime decline is mentioned once, without any links to the actual statistics, let alone any study that links...

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The News would be easy to confirm/refute. Leftist and PC Islamist apologists just EMPTILY Bash instead.
Above/last page we see that Kneejerk anger and Bashing by Paxaeon, RabidAlpaca, etc.. NO refutation. (or withheld FAILED attempts)
Deportation of Immigrants has been rising significantly every year, 7100 in 2014.
Many/MOST for Criminal reasons.
So OF COURSE Crime would drop.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...s_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=norway+deportations&start=0


ie
Norway deports record number of immigrants - The Local
Norway deports record number of immigrants
Published: 10 Nov 2014

A record number of people were deported by Norwegian authorities in October, said government sources.

*Asylum seekers 'over-represented' in Norway Crime stats (09 Sep 14)
*Netherlands agrees to take Norway's Criminals (09 Sep 14)

OOOPS!

mbig said:

OOOPS!

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Yes ooops, but more for you. Did you read the first link? It is a word for word copy of the OP.. strange no? And it still does not address the factual aspect of the OP or the first link. Where are the numbers, and why is it worded in such a strange way?

The 3rd one is a beauty.. a utterly racist one. They actually write "non white invaders" and like the OP use the The Local´s article as base for their hatred.

From what I can see of the links in your google search, those that are relevant to the subject at hand.. they all use the same original source, which is either the OP or the first link in the search.. and both are very very poor in proving their point.. in fact they do not back anything up with actual numbers or links.

And there is no doubt that Norway is deporting more people... it is official government policy for **** sake. The issue here is proving a link between falling crime to those deported and there is nothing in the material in the OP or anywhere else I can find that makes this link.

But doing a bit of digging and googling of deportations and norway I found this story with a bit more facts.

Norway police expulsions hit one-month record / News / The Foreigner — Norwegian News in English.

Now here we have some numbers and they in no way back up the racist bull**** in the OP and the Local.no. Of course it is not a major news source, but neither was thelocal.no. And in this case the source has actual numbers!

But in the article you see something interesting. Of the countries with the most deportations... only 2 could be seen as partly Muslim, and not your typical "radical" parts. Nigeria is the number one country, and Christians account for around 50% of the population last I looked. The other "Muslim" country is Albania with 60% Muslims. The rest in the top 5...Eastern European.

And there is a nice little info in the article

1,790 of the 5,036 people deported so far this year were subject to legal sanctions.

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So what is legal sanctions? I suspect it is crime of course and similar breaking of the law.. but maybe you can find a definition since it is your and the OP case that is totally falling apart when you look at the actual numbers.

This means that any link between a fall in crime due to deportations is more likely (if true) to be linked with the deportation of Romanians and other eastern Europeans and NOT Muslims.

PeteEU said:

1) The source (which is not linked) is "Oslo local news".. does not exist as far as I can tell from a search.

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They are probably talking about Aftenposten, which is considered an Oslo paper, even though many people outside Oslo read it.

2) The violent crime decline is mentioned once, without any links to the actual statistics, let alone any study that links the decline to deportations of Muslims.

3) Using % is a classic way of hiding the truth. It sounds like a big number but is it? What is the violent crime number overall? And 31% compared to what year or month? It is a trick often used. 100 to 69 cases of violent crime is 31%.. but to be fair.. 100 cases of violent crime is not much relative to other nations.

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2. The crime rate drop is verified from other sources
Kriminaliteten stuper i Oslo - Politi-hverdagen - VG

3. Norway crime rate is nothing extrodinary, especially not Oslo. The number of violent crime is way above a 100 in just Oslo alone, and if you think it is due to high report rate, then victimization rate tell the same story.

A 31% drop in crime rare is impressive.

This comment is also strange. Because it is in the same paragraph as the above, and because it is in an article about Muslims, then people automatically think that the deportees were Muslim. But were they? I suspect very much that they were not, but were in fact Europeans... Danes, Swedes, Poles and so on because in pretty much all other countries that is the fact. Why? Because it is far far easier to deport a Dane or Pole than it is an Iraqi or Syrian... even in Norway.

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Norway only deport the ones who are ilegally in Norway, it is not enough to do a crime. So, no we are not talking about danes, a group that does very little crime in Norway. We are mostly talking about asylum seekers, and illegal immigrants. Most of them are muslim.

But you are right about one thing, kicking out criminal immigrants is not 100% responsible for the drop in crime rate, it simply cannot be. The crime rate also dropped due to better policing from the new government.

PeteEU said:

Nope I am a hybrid.. part Jew, part Christian and both non practising.



There is a difference in common sense and actual facts. That your hatred towards Muslims leads you to believe that crime rates actually go down because they get deported..but think of the following..

Is it only Muslims that get deported? Of course not, far far from it. Could it be the deportation other population groups that might be the reason for a drop in crime rates? Could it be longer sentences of repeat offenders, which means less crime.. since they are in jail? And the big one.. do they register people based on religion? nope!

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I didn't say all Muslims SHOULD be deported. That would be immoral and wrong, on many levels. I just said that if they were to be deported, crime rates would drop.

I'm just looking at it as a cold, statistical fact. You know what, crime rates would drop if you deported every young man under the age of 35 as well (incidentally, I fall in to that group.) Nobody is suggesting deporting us.

It's just a fact that certain subgroups have higher crime statistics. If we don't recognize the issue, we can't begin to solve it.

PeteEU

Are you really claiming that Muslims in Northern Europe do NOT commit more crime per capita than the norm?

Peter Grimm said:

Are you a Muslim, Pete?

Cause I'm a Swede, and it's pretty much common sense in Sweden. If you deported the Muslims, crime would drop significantly. Don't need any fancy studies to show that, just practical experience.

Answer the question, though.

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Crime would drop everywhere if you deported Muslims with ties to radical groups.

Peter Grimm said:

It's just a fact that certain subgroups have higher crime statistics. If we don't recognize the issue, we can't begin to solve it.

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Oh it is a recognized issue, but it is also an abused issue political and you know it. I dont mind facts, but when the facts are twisted into a political targeting of one of these sub-groups then I got a problem with it.

There is no doubt that foreigners are over represented in crime statistics relative to their percentage of the population, but it ignores the big elephant in the room that a huge majority of crime is in fact committed by locals and not foreigners.

Camlon said:

They are probably talking about Aftenposten, which is considered an Oslo paper, even though many people outside Oslo read it.

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I know Aftenposten.. but cant find the original article which only raises my suspicion about the OP article.

2. The crime rate drop is verified from other sources
Kriminaliteten stuper i Oslo - Politi-hverdagen - VG

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Not disputing this at all. Disputing that it is some how linked to the deportation of Muslims which was the OP claim. But even the link you provided has a lot of information.. information that does not exactly match..

For example, it says that robbery is down 1/4 of what it was last year at this time.. hmm but a little further down it states that robbery has gone down 36%, not 75% as claimed before.

It also states in Oslo there was registered 13% less crime .. not 31% as claimed elsewhere. And it also states there are 32% less pickpocketing, 12% less burglaries, and 20% less reports of rapes.. but the over all crime rate only went down 13%? So that must mean there is certain crimes that have to gone up no? Why no mention of those?

3. Norway crime rate is nothing extrodinary, especially not Oslo. The number of violent crime is way above a 100 in just Oslo alone, and if you think it is due to high report rate, then victimization rate tell the same story.

A 31% drop in crime rare is impressive.

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It was just an example since I did not have the actual numbers.. which is part of the main source of contention over the OP. 31% drop in "crime rate".. is that overall, or certain crimes.. is it all of Norway or just Oslo. The VG article says crime rates only fell 13%, not 31%.

Norway only deport the ones who are ilegally in Norway, it is not enough to do a crime. So, no we are not talking about danes, a group that does very little crime in Norway. We are mostly talking about asylum seekers, and illegal immigrants. Most of them are muslim.

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BULL****. Even the OP does not say that LOL. Norway does deport asylum seekers that have outstayed their welcome but it is not easy doing that as it requires you have an agreement with the country of origin. For example, there are numerous articles of asylum seekers from Eritrea who cant be deported because of no agreement with the government of Eritrea. Same goes for Afghanistan and many others. It is a problem that is universal across Europe. We would love to get rid of our Iraqi and Syrian and Libyan asylum seekers, but we cant because the countries are still in civil war and national law plus international agreements forbid us in deporting them back to conflict zones.

No, the majority of deportations are people from Europe who have committed a crime and been sentenced to be deported, or have entered illegally into Norway and can be returned to the country where they set out their illegal entry into Norway.. usually another EU country. Even the OP article in its own strange way says so.

But you are right about one thing, kicking out criminal immigrants is not 100% responsible for the drop in crime rate, it simply cannot be. The crime rate also dropped due to better policing from the new government.

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Yes they would claim that would they not. From the VG article, the Police state it is because of a change of tactics by the Police.. with a new robbery unit among other things, that has lead to the decline in crime... not deportations.

ataturk said:

Are you really claiming that Muslims in Northern Europe do NOT commit more crime per capita than the norm?

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You got any stats that show that they do?

ataturk said:

PeteEU

Are you really claiming that Muslims in Northern Europe do NOT commit more crime per capita than the norm?

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Muslims yes.. people from certain countries no.

PeteEU said:

Muslims yes.. people from certain countries no.

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Then you are wrong in every Northern European country Muslims commit more crime per capita than the average.

Andalublue said:

You got any stats that show that they do?

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Many countries like Sweden refuse to publish the stats. In the UK the Muslim prison population speaks for itself.

ataturk said:

Many countries like Sweden refuse to publish the stats. In the UK the Muslim prison population speaks for itself.

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I see, so that would be a 'no'.

No evidence, no argument, just hot air and bigotry. As per usual.