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No confidence in government, less freedom and corruption on the rise. Why?

Perotista

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There is two phenomena that I think is directly related to each other. Number one is Americans do not have any confidence in all the branches of their government:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't
Confidence hits six-year low for presidency; record lows for Supreme Court, Congress

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Number two is most Americans are dissatisfied with their freedom to choose, they feel they are quickly losing freedoms:

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom
Perceived widespread corruption in U.S. government on the rise

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom

I think this all boils down to hyper-partisanship of both parties. That our elected officials have forgot that they are Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. That the good of the nation comes before the good of the party, loyalty to country should come before loyalty to party. But this is not the way it is in Washington D.C. today. It is always party, party, party.
What say you, why do you think there is no confidence in our government and that most Americans feel they have lost their ability to choose, that they have lost quite a lot of their freedom?
 

joG

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There is two phenomena that I think is directly related to each other. Number one is Americans do not have any confidence in all the branches of their government:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't
Confidence hits six-year low for presidency; record lows for Supreme Court, Congress

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Number two is most Americans are dissatisfied with their freedom to choose, they feel they are quickly losing freedoms:

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom
Perceived widespread corruption in U.S. government on the rise

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom

I think this all boils down to hyper-partisanship of both parties. That our elected officials have forgot that they are Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. That the good of the nation comes before the good of the party, loyalty to country should come before loyalty to party. But this is not the way it is in Washington D.C. today. It is always party, party, party.
What say you, why do you think there is no confidence in our government and that most Americans feel they have lost their ability to choose, that they have lost quite a lot of their freedom?

It seems to me to be a phenomenon that is present almost all over the globe.
 

Perotista

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It seems to me to be a phenomenon that is present almost all over the globe.

Very well could be. But trust once lost is a very hard thing to regain.
 

joG

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Very well could be. But trust once lost is a very hard thing to regain.

Yes. And legitimacy is essential in keeping societies half efficient.
 

AlbqOwl

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There is two phenomena that I think is directly related to each other. Number one is Americans do not have any confidence in all the branches of their government:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't
Confidence hits six-year low for presidency; record lows for Supreme Court, Congress

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Number two is most Americans are dissatisfied with their freedom to choose, they feel they are quickly losing freedoms:

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom
Perceived widespread corruption in U.S. government on the rise

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom

I think this all boils down to hyper-partisanship of both parties. That our elected officials have forgot that they are Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. That the good of the nation comes before the good of the party, loyalty to country should come before loyalty to party. But this is not the way it is in Washington D.C. today. It is always party, party, party.
What say you, why do you think there is no confidence in our government and that most Americans feel they have lost their ability to choose, that they have lost quite a lot of their freedom?

Once politicians were convinced that they could do anything the Constitution does not expressly forbid--we can thank Teddy Roosevelt for getting that snowball rolling--it was not long before they began figuring out ways to use government to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and wealth. We the people were a virtually unlimited source of resources and, no longer restricted by Constitutional restraint, they slowly at first, and then faster and faster started taking them from us along with our liberties and rights to govern ourselves. Everything they do now, I believe, is for their benefit, not ours. The new guy or gal who still hopes to make a difference is quickly trained to go along to get along or they are soon out. They don't get any good committee appointments. They get none of the extremely lucrative cash windfalls that come to the political parties. And so we have a permanent political class in Washington who throws us just enough bones to keep us voting for them or at least keep us from rising up against them. They don't care whether we like them because they really don't care much at all about us.

For me confidence is very high. Very high that we will see more corruption and more loss of our choices, options, liberties, and opportunities until we have had enough and do rise up to throw them out. And I fear it may be too late to do that.
 

Perotista

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Once politicians were convinced that they could do anything the Constitution does not expressly forbid--we can thank Teddy Roosevelt for getting that snowball rolling--it was not long before they began figuring out ways to use government to increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and wealth. We the people were a virtually unlimited source of resources and, no longer restricted by Constitutional restraint, they slowly at first, and then faster and faster started taking them from us along with our liberties and rights to govern ourselves. Everything they do now, I believe, is for their benefit, not ours. The new guy or gal who still hopes to make a difference is quickly trained to go along to get along or they are soon out. They don't get any good committee appointments. They get none of the extremely lucrative cash windfalls that come to the political parties. And so we have a permanent political class in Washington who throws us just enough bones to keep us voting for them or at least keep us from rising up against them. They don't care whether we like them because they really don't care much at all about us.

For me confidence is very high. Very high that we will see more corruption and more loss of our choices, options, liberties, and opportunities until we have had enough and do rise up to throw them out. And I fear it may be too late to do that.

That is for sure, each and every one of our elected leaders sure do know how to increase their personal power, prestige and wealth. Yep, first the states became no more than boundary lines when it comes to federal power and the people are now next. You’re right on the money that they, both political parties do not care if we like them or not. In fact both use the hate the other guy more than me to keep getting re-elected or elected. You can tell this in how the political party’s strength has really dropped. Over 80% of the electorate either identified or associated themselves with the two major parties from 1930-60, that dropped to 70% from 1960-90 and down to 60% through 2010. Today the Democrats are at 28% and the Republicans at 24%, independents make up 46% of the electorate and I am pretty sure by the end of the decade independents will have surpassed 50%. Dislike or hate of the two major parties, over 60% of the electorate in a CBS viewed both parties in a very unfavorable light.
I did a blog on this very thing back in October of last year:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs...l-party-care-if-they-have-support-people.html

Yes I too fear it is too late.
 

Thrilla

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There is two phenomena that I think is directly related to each other. Number one is Americans do not have any confidence in all the branches of their government:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't
Confidence hits six-year low for presidency; record lows for Supreme Court, Congress

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Number two is most Americans are dissatisfied with their freedom to choose, they feel they are quickly losing freedoms:

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom
Perceived widespread corruption in U.S. government on the rise

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom

I think this all boils down to hyper-partisanship of both parties. That our elected officials have forgot that they are Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. That the good of the nation comes before the good of the party, loyalty to country should come before loyalty to party. But this is not the way it is in Washington D.C. today. It is always party, party, party.
What say you, why do you think there is no confidence in our government and that most Americans feel they have lost their ability to choose, that they have lost quite a lot of their freedom?

i think you are right... "party uber alles" is a very serious problem with very serious consequences.

additionally, I find myself being more distrustful because of the actual agendas at work in both parties.... nearly every agenda being pushed contains an abridgment of someones rights.
the scariest element to this, is that i fear that partisanship will be thrown aside and these agenda will actually play out..

in terms of agendas, I believe the hyperpartisanship of both parties is actually beneficial
 

Jetboogieman

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Solution: Severely limit campaign donations, which all must be completely public, get rid of Superpacs and institute proportional representation.

Done.
 

Perotista

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i think you are right... "party uber alles" is a very serious problem with very serious consequences.

additionally, I find myself being more distrustful because of the actual agendas at work in both parties.... nearly every agenda being pushed contains an abridgment of someones rights.
the scariest element to this, is that i fear that partisanship will be thrown aside and these agenda will actually play out..

in terms of agendas, I believe the hyperpartisanship of both parties is actually beneficial

I really doubt the hyper-partisanship is beneficial when it comes to your party is for this, so mine is against and vice versa. I do think you are right that the agendas have gotten more hardcore left and right as the parties have shrunk and lost their moderates who became independents. I always thought the growth in the number of independents was a good thing. Now I am not so sure as they lost any and all influence on the two parties agendas. With the moderates in both parties, going back to when each party had its own conservative and liberals wings, no one would have thought of these hard left and right agendas. Even if they did, there was no way to get the majority of their party to go along with it.
 

Thrilla

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I really doubt the hyper-partisanship is beneficial when it comes to your party is for this, so mine is against and vice versa. I do think you are right that the agendas have gotten more hardcore left and right as the parties have shrunk and lost their moderates who became independents. I always thought the growth in the number of independents was a good thing. Now I am not so sure as they lost any and all influence on the two parties agendas. With the moderates in both parties, going back to when each party had its own conservative and liberals wings, no one would have thought of these hard left and right agendas. Even if they did, there was no way to get the majority of their party to go along with it.

good points....
 

Thrilla

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Solution: Severely limit campaign donations, which all must be completely public, get rid of Superpacs and institute proportional representation.

Done.

uhh... what?

how does the government further limiting citizens make the govt more trustworthy to those citizens?

personally, i would give them a bit more trust if they actually started limiting themselves for a change.
 

nota bene

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For me confidence is very high. Very high that we will see more corruption and more loss of our choices, options, liberties, and opportunities until we have had enough and do rise up to throw them out. And I fear it may be too late to do that.

That is my concern. So many people shrug and say, "New boss...same as the old boss," and there are other reasons for voter apathy and cynicism. Ennui for the loss, sigh.
 

PoS

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I think this all boils down to hyper-partisanship of both parties. That our elected officials have forgot that they are Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. That the good of the nation comes before the good of the party, loyalty to country should come before loyalty to party. But this is not the way it is in Washington D.C. today. It is always party, party, party.
What say you, why do you think there is no confidence in our government and that most Americans feel they have lost their ability to choose, that they have lost quite a lot of their freedom?
I think with the advent of the internet people can now see just how inept and wasteful the government really is, everything is scrutinized a lot more now than it ever was. Plus the infighting between the two party system isnt doing them any favors.
 

Thrilla

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I would like to see a solution. But I do not think there is one.

there is no silver bullet, that's for sure....

losing trust takes no time at all... regaining trust can take quite a while, though

i'm not sure that politicians really care that much for this loss of trust ( on a macro level)... they probably believe that we don't trust the "other guy", never thinking that they are "the other guy" to at least half the nation.

i think everybody has their own idea on how the government can regain trust... getting us all to agree on what this is will be quite the chore, though.
 

AlbqOwl

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That is my concern. So many people shrug and say, "New boss...same as the old boss," and there are other reasons for voter apathy and cynicism. Ennui for the loss, sigh.

It's more sinister than that. So much of the American public is so dumbed down due to our abysmal public education system, highly partisan media that refuses to do its job, and systematic dependency on government that they don't have a clue how government works. They just depend on it to get by. And of those who do know how it works, a sizable percentage are receiving some kind of government benefit--in total just over 50% of Americans at this time. That too is by design. It takes some extremely strong character and balls to give up a benefit when you are receiving one, most especially when you have no confidence that it will make any difference. So even those who hate government and deplore what it does are hesitant to 'throw the bums out'.

As for the bums, they don't care about us and they don't care whether what they do is good or bad for the country, whether we have money to pay for it or not, or what the long range ramifications might be. They figure they'll have theirs and be long gone before it all comes crashing down. So they pass laws that are politically popular, pass regulation that keeps the big money pouring into their campaigns, leadership pacs, and party coffers, and throw us just enough bones and provide just enough 'right sounding' sound bites to appeal to their base and keep it voting for them.
 

polgara

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That is for sure, each and every one of our elected leaders sure do know how to increase their personal power, prestige and wealth. Yep, first the states became no more than boundary lines when it comes to federal power and the people are now next. You’re right on the money that they, both political parties do not care if we like them or not. In fact both use the hate the other guy more than me to keep getting re-elected or elected. You can tell this in how the political party’s strength has really dropped. Over 80% of the electorate either identified or associated themselves with the two major parties from 1930-60, that dropped to 70% from 1960-90 and down to 60% through 2010. Today the Democrats are at 28% and the Republicans at 24%, independents make up 46% of the electorate and I am pretty sure by the end of the decade independents will have surpassed 50%. Dislike or hate of the two major parties, over 60% of the electorate in a CBS viewed both parties in a very unfavorable light.
I did a blog on this very thing back in October of last year:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs...l-party-care-if-they-have-support-people.html

Yes I too fear it is too late.

I believe it's never too late to fight for what's right - as long as it's understood that the longer that wrong continues and becomes entrenched, the more vicious the fight becomes. Someone mentioned "rivers of blood," and I understand how that can happen. We basically have the same thing currently going on in the ME - are we being set up for the same thing to happen here? It's starting to look that way, IMO. :shock:
 

Ikari

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There is two phenomena that I think is directly related to each other. Number one is Americans do not have any confidence in all the branches of their government:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't
Confidence hits six-year low for presidency; record lows for Supreme Court, Congress

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Number two is most Americans are dissatisfied with their freedom to choose, they feel they are quickly losing freedoms:

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom
Perceived widespread corruption in U.S. government on the rise

Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom

I think this all boils down to hyper-partisanship of both parties. That our elected officials have forgot that they are Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. That the good of the nation comes before the good of the party, loyalty to country should come before loyalty to party. But this is not the way it is in Washington D.C. today. It is always party, party, party.
What say you, why do you think there is no confidence in our government and that most Americans feel they have lost their ability to choose, that they have lost quite a lot of their freedom?

This is what uncontrolled government looks like. This is its natural course.
 

Respecthelect

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hyper-partisanship

No structural problems? No expectation that whatever one wants, they can demand or vote for themselves? No limit on the mobs ability to take from whomever it doesn't like at the moment? No responsibility for the media to present balance (this one might actually be hyper-partisanship)? There hasn't been any blurring of the separation of powers? It's all due to hyper-partisanship? If only one side or the other would relent? Since the left has had its way for the last hundred years and the needle has only moved left, one assumes you intend for the right to capitulate entirely?
 

Perotista

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I think with the advent of the internet people can now see just how inept and wasteful the government really is, everything is scrutinized a lot more now than it ever was. Plus the infighting between the two party system isnt doing them any favors.

I tend to agree, you might add the 24 hours news channels also.
 

Jetboogieman

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how does the government further limiting citizens make the govt more trustworthy to those citizens?.

Look, I know you Libertarians don't like the bigger picture, but if you think that unlimited and non-disclosure campaign donations having nothing to do with the current problem, than you're fooling yourselves.
 

Perotista

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there is no silver bullet, that's for sure....

losing trust takes no time at all... regaining trust can take quite a while, though

i'm not sure that politicians really care that much for this loss of trust ( on a macro level)... they probably believe that we don't trust the "other guy", never thinking that they are "the other guy" to at least half the nation.

i think everybody has their own idea on how the government can regain trust... getting us all to agree on what this is will be quite the chore, though.

Yep, I think how a lot of campaigns evolved over the years also has contributed to the lost in confidence and distrust of Washington as a whole. Campaigns nowadays are nothing but attack ads. All negative aimed at making the voter hate your opponent more than you. The negative attack ads work, but when the winner goes to Washington to govern, he leaves behind a whole lot of people who hate him and do not trust him.
 

Perotista

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I believe it's never too late to fight for what's right - as long as it's understood that the longer that wrong continues and becomes entrenched, the more vicious the fight becomes. Someone mentioned "rivers of blood," and I understand how that can happen. We basically have the same thing currently going on in the ME - are we being set up for the same thing to happen here? It's starting to look that way, IMO. :shock:

Perhaps, but here it has been contained in the political arena. But when side or the other comes to the conclusion they can win in the political arena, politics by other means happens.
 

Perotista

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This is what uncontrolled government looks like. This is its natural course.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps it is the government that is running out of control.
 
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