The fertile crescent enjoyed more easily domesticable plants and animals.than any other area on earth. Hands down. In the entire new world the largest "domesticable" animal was the llama and corn started as a tiny seed pod. That was about it.I understand the oldest "human" ancestor is A. anamensis, from Ethiopia, correct? About 3.9 million years ago? You're not talking about a gigantic leap for those earliest ancestors to end up in a "garden" a couple thousand miles away over the course of time and evolution.
I've never taken the Bible to be absolutely true. I mean...come on...7 days to form the earth and create every.single.creature? No evolution?
But considering that many religions tend to point towards a 'garden'...I'm going to guess that somewhere along the lines of storytelling, human history, etc...there was some fertile area of land where human life as we've come to know it evolved.
If attempting to discredit the story of creation is an attempt to discredit religion, then it is a weak attempt. You're talking about books/religions that have existed for thousands of years. And considering that in 2021 we still are learning and finding things...with all the advanced technology we have now...of course, the story would be simplistic and easy to understand and pass down. Human understanding of simply the planet that we have been living on and, let's face it, our own BODIES is still evolving. There's so much we do not know.
I read somewhere once that some think all of the legends of the fall, the eating from the tree of knowledge were all stories told.by peoples that hadn't adopted agriculture as early.As for the story of Adam and Eve…I look at it not as a literal snake in a garden that spoke specifically to one man and one woman…but the dawn on man realizing that choices have consequences. Or that we HAVE choices and responsibilities past our more basic animal instincts.
The beginning of realizing that there’s something different about humans vs. other mammals…a higher level of thinking, comprehending, choices that sets humans apart and makes us different.
And also recognizing that necessity of and appreciating the differences between the man and the woman of the species. And that without each other, we cannot exist as a species. We are of “one”….or human life ceases to exist.
We somehow knew these things, instinctually or we never would have made it TO evolution but I see the story of the Garden of Eden as a way to pass that information on. Since there weren’t books, etc back then. There were stories.
And these type of early stories exist in every major religion, not just Christianity/Judaism.
For may are called but few are chosen. God didn’t give everyone faith. It’s a gift to his elect.
What a ridiculous notion you have. Who do you think is "so committed to disproving" anything? The earth and planetary sciences don't progress and advance with the intention of disproving anyone's religious beliefs. That whole idea is beyond laughable. The tens-of-thousands of earth and planetary scientists around the world work in their very diverse fields to better understand the truths of our world and our universe. The last thing on their minds in their study and exploration of that world, is disproving anyone's belief in ancient mythologies.It's kind of strange to so many are so committed to disproving that which they don't believe. Why does it take so much effort to disprove nothing?
Where did they come from? You have to go back to a male and female at some point...a whole group of people didn't just poof into existence...
Humans didn't 'start'. They evolved from other primates. Homo Sapiens became a distinct species when it stopped being able to inter breed with other species.I thought that they've concluded that the biblical Garden of Eden would be in Mesopotamia...which is essentially the cradle of humanity. How do you know that there wasn't an Adam and an Eve?
I mean, humans had to literally start somewhere, right? Where did humans first start then?
Is this thread not all about disproving the basis for Christianity? It isn't the only thread here with that purpose either. Heck, denying, disparaging and disproving the Truth has been a hobby of man for a very, very long time yet, for some strange reason, the Truth remains. Some might find it rather remarkable that 3000 or 4000 years of kicking against the goads hasn't diminished the plow rows one bit. Others might look at that circumstance and and think, "Well, such is the nature of man."What a ridiculous notion you have. Who do you think is "so committed to disproving" anything? The earth and planetary sciences don't progress and advance with the intention of disproving anyone's religious beliefs. That whole idea is beyond laughable. The tens-of-thousands of earth and planetary scientists around the world work in their very diverse fields to better understand the truths of our world and our universe. The last thing on their minds in their study and exploration of that world, is disproving anyone's belief in ancient mythologies.
Where on earth did you get such a silly idea?
I too believe it is a nice story for children. It borrows from many earlier creation stories.They would be just a few.generations from a perfect genome though. Not made of DNA subjected to millions of years.of cosmic radiation.
Not that I think it is more than parable. Just from a feasibility standpoint.
I understand why believers believe. All I am saying is that it is based in myth.
Africa. We even have a guess as to which part of Africa.I mean, humans had to literally start somewhere, right? Where did humans first start then?
Nope, you could just start with the tiny group of survivors of Noah’s (global?) flood.
So...was murder also moral before god made a rule for it? Just curious.There was nothing wrong with incest when man and woman were 1st created...how else could the whole human race be related...each generation away from the 1st human pair was further and further away from perfection, which caused genetic problems...in time, God gave the law in Leviticus against incest...it was not until Moses received God’s laws for the nation of Israel in 1513 BCE that intercourse between close relatives was specifically forbidden....
Myth.
Is this thread not all about disproving the basis for Christianity? It isn't the only thread here with that purpose either. Heck, denying, disparaging and disproving the Truth has been a hobby of man for a very, very long time yet, for some strange reason, the Truth remains. Some might find it rather remarkable that 3000 or 4000 years of kicking against the goads hasn't diminished the plow rows one bit. Others might look at that circumstance and and think, "Well, such is the nature of man."
It is all the true word of God. God IS the Word and the Word is spread in many ways.I too believe it is a nice story for children. It borrows from many earlier creation stories.
The Old Testament shies away from declaring itself the true word of God (perhaps due to being the history of a people and it's established religion.)
The New Testament on the other hand declares itself the true word of God (perhaps due to the need to convince followers to join a new religion and not question it)
When I was young my Minister told me many stories we read were parables to explain complex ideas. Not literal truth but a guide to a good life...
Well...the problem is that isn't really true. Elephants will have "funerals" for each other. There is the rather bizarre story of the dolphin that commit suicide after being separated from their trainer.Biologically? Past the point of caring for offspring, mating, protection from predators, surviving natural elements…mammals don’t tend to care about one another.
Peter and Margaret were separated. He was shlepped to a dolphin tank in Florida, where within weeks, he “committed suicide by refusing to breathe, and sinking to the bottom of his tank.”
Elephants have such intense social groups that they become extremely upset when one of their own dies. Of all animal grieving and funeral rituals, there is none as well documented or well known as the elephant’s.
Upon seeing the bones or carcass of another elephant, a family will stop and investigate them, even if the elephant was unrelated to the group. The ritual includes touching the bones gently with their trunks while remaining very quiet, covering the body with leaves and grass, and if the elephant belonged to their own, staying with the body for days or weeks at a time.
Jehovah God warned Cain, yes...Cain ignored the warning...So...was murder also moral before god made a rule for it? Just curious.
Ok, but what about before that happened? Like, you said incest was fine before god made a rule against it. Was murder, homosexuality, theft, other sins etc also moral before god made rules against them?Jehovah God warned Cain, yes...Cain ignored the warning...
" Cain grew hot with anger and was dejected. Then Jehovah said to Cain: “Why are you so angry and dejected? If you turn to doing good, will you not be restored to favor? But if you do not turn to doing good, sin is crouching at the door, and its craving is to dominate you; but will you get the mastery over it?” Genesis 4:5-7
Swwwoooosssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...Ok, but what about before that happened? Like, you said incest was fine before god made a rule against it. Was murder, homosexuality, theft, other sins etc also moral before god made rules against them?
I'm not sure what this response means. I'm genuinely trying to understand what your beliefs are.Swwwoooosssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
So, the Bible isn't infallible as the parables may well be doubted. The stories told are simple tales to give one side of history. It's one thing to believe God created the heavens and the earth, another to believe Humans existed for only 6,000 years.It is all the true word of God. God IS the Word and the Word is spread in many ways.
We might well doubt that a tortoise ever raced a hare and won but that wasn't really the point of the story, was it?
Well, think about it...were so many laws necessary when there were only 4 people on the earth? No...as the human race grew, more laws were needed to direct/teach/instruct them...I'm not sure what this response means. I'm genuinely trying to understand what your beliefs are.
I'm not here to "rebut" anything.And yet not a single person has offered a solid rebuttal to my OP that the MYTH of Adam and Eve undermines the foundation of Christianity and thus the entire basic doctrine of the need for a “Redeemer” comes crashing down. And “truth” is the result of objective analysis of alternatives, it is not just “given”.
You seem to be focused on the trees while there is an entire forest before you.So, the Bible isn't infallible as the parables may well be doubted. The stories told are simple tales to give one side of history. It's one thing to believe God created the heavens and the earth, another to believe Humans existed for only 6,000 years.
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