New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthood

[Peter King]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Yeah, not divisive or histrionic at all.

Not divisive but factual. The GOP hates abortion and thus wants to destroy planned parenthood. That is divisive IMHO and they have a history (pro-lifers that is) for distorting the facts for political ends.

 

[joG]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

given the subject matter, very ironic

and dishonest

You mean you feed on propaganda?

 

[dpcal]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

There were 21 cell lines in 2000. And more are still being developed.
There was a cell line developed in 2007 which gave us the vaccine for a type of cervical cancer.
Not all cell lines can be used for all new medical throughs.


Here are some of the more common cell lines:

Without question, fetal tissue has provided some of the early immortalized cells lines, but molecular biology has progressed to the point, where immortalized cells lines are being customized. If for some reason you have an interest in immortalized cell line, the abstract from this article (subscription required) illustrates where the science of immortalized cell line is today---designer cell immortalized cell lines.

"The generation of patient-specific cell lines represents an invaluable tool for diagnostic or translational research, and these cells can be collected from skin or muscle biopsy tissue available during the patient’s diagnostic workup. In this protocol, we describe a technique for live cell isolation from small amounts of muscle or skin tissue for primary cell culture. Additionally, we provide a technique for the immortalization of myogenic cell lines and fibroblast cell lines from primary cells. Once cell lines are immortalized, substantial expansion of patient-derived cells can be achieved. Immortalized cells are amenable to many downstream applications, including drug screening and in vitro correction of the genetic mutation. Altogether, these protocols provide a reliable tool to generate and preserve patient-derived cells for downstream applications."

Isolation and Immortalization of Patient-derived Cell Lines from Muscle Biopsy for Disease Modeling | Protocol

In no way am I suggesting that aren't some research uses for fetal tissue and something substantial might arise, but fetal tissue was far more useful 15-50 years ago, before techniques were developed to basically back cells up in terms of the level of commitment to a specific type of tissue.

 

[tecoyah]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Why is it that people cannot simply admit what all this is really about. People hate PP because they provide abortion services (amongst a great many other things) and would like them to go away. The issue of fetal tissue experiments and research has been with us for many years and is being used by primarily religious zealots as the latest attempt to limit abortion access because they cannot overturn R v.W. The absolute ignorance is actually funny in ways, as they seem to think the practices they wish to pray away are going to stop because a single entity is damaged by systematic editing and scripted video released on the internet.
Sorry folks, but just because you have decided to interpret a couple passages in your "Holy Book" to read in such a way that says Jesus hates Planned Parenthood does not mean abortion is going to stop.

It might however, lead to more unwanted pregnancies and thus even more abortion.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

That's fine, but if the only use fetal cells have so far is to be cell lines for vaccine development then it's a weak case. Other cell lines can and have been used for that. And even if human cell lines are somehow necessary it's not necessary for that purpose to go on harvesting body parts because those cell lines have been immortalized. You can buy them off the shelf, and it's actually advantageous for investigators to all be using the same cell line from the same source.

Saying that almost everyone has benefitted from fetal tissue research is like saying that almost everyone has benefitted from Goodyear tires because so many delivery trucks have Goodyear tires on them. Or Firestone, or Michelin, or Toyo, or Cooper, etc.

The facts don't justify the histrionic, divisive tone of the NEJM article.

Developing vaccines is a weak case? Do you hate born persons? Seriously. Born persons only exist to reproduce and then kaput.

 

[LowDown]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Developing vaccines is a weak case? Do you hate born persons? Seriously. Born persons only exist to reproduce and then kaput.

Like I said, it can be done in other cell lines, animal cell lines. It can be done using adult stem cells. If you argue that we must have fetal tissues regardless of other considerations this is a weak case in point.

 

[LowDown]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Not divisive but factual. The GOP hates abortion and thus wants to destroy planned parenthood. That is divisive IMHO and they have a history (pro-lifers that is) for distorting the facts for political ends.

"This attack represents a betrayal of the people who's lives could be saved by the research and a violation of the most fundamental duty of medicine."

"We are outraged by those who debase these women, this work, and Planned Parenthood by distorting the facts for political ends."

Yeah, not histrionic or divisive at all.

 

[Peter King]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

"This attack represents a betrayal of the people who's lives could be saved by the research and a violation of the most fundamental duty of medicine."

"We are outraged by those who debase these women, this work, and Planned Parenthood by distorting the facts for political ends."

Yeah, not histrionic or divisive at all.

Nope, still nothing but facts.

It is an attack on planned parenthood (there is just no denying this) and the premise of this attack does betray/risk the future health of people/violates the fundamental duty of medicine (making better vaccines/creating cures).

And what is histrionic or divisive when someones says they are outraged by the attack on planned parenthood (threatening the health and lives of both numerous women/future children) by distorting the actual facts (because what the video's suggest is a pack of lies/what most pro-life politicians say about PP is besides the truth) as an excuse to go after the funding of all the non-abortion related services PP provides for their own political ends. Because it is proven once again that republican politicians and pro-lifers do not care about the health of women, they are purely driven by their hatred of women reproductive choices/aka abortion and will turn to any lie/distortions to try and destroy PP.

 

[minnie616]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Like I said, it can be done in other cell lines, animal cell lines. It can be done using adult stem cells. If you argue that we must have fetal tissues regardless of other considerations this is a weak case in point.

Animal and adult cells lines are more likely to be rejected than fetal cell lines.

Fetal cells are considered ideal because they divide rapidly, adapt to new environments easily and are less susceptible to rejection than adult cells when transplanted.

Scientists say fetal tissue remains essential for vaccines and developing treatments

 

[LowDown]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Nope, still nothing but facts.

I'm sure any partisan hack would agree.

 

[LowDown]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Animal and adult cells lines are more likely to be rejected than fetal cell lines.



Scientists say fetal tissue remains essential for vaccines and developing treatments

These scientists are not covering themselves in glory here. This is all hype and handwaving.

 

[year2late]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

These scientists are not covering themselves in glory here. This is all hype and handwaving.

Feel free to refuse any treatment or vaccine that comes from fetal tissue.

 

[sangha]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

You mean you feed on propaganda?

No, I mean you believe propoganda (ex CMPs claims) except when it's not from your side.

 

[sangha]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

"This attack represents a betrayal of the people who's lives could be saved by the research and a violation of the most fundamental duty of medicine."

"We are outraged by those who debase these women, this work, and Planned Parenthood by distorting the facts for political ends."

Yeah, not histrionic or divisive at all.

Complains about how the NEJM is histrionic and divisive

Believes CMP's histrionic and divisive claims

 

[Peter King]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

I'm sure any partisan hack would agree.

No, IMO it is the other way around, I am sure any partisan hack would disagree.

 

[year2late]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Complains about how the NEJM is histrionic and divisive

Believes CMP's histrionic and divisive claims

But that is different,:lamo

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Like I said, it can be done in other cell lines, animal cell lines. It can be done using adult stem cells. If you argue that we must have fetal tissues regardless of other considerations this is a weak case in point.

If your "theory" was correct, or even close to correct, then there'd be no demand...black market or otherwise.

 

[dpcal]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Animal and adult cells lines are more likely to be rejected than fetal cell lines.



Scientists say fetal tissue remains essential for vaccines and developing treatments

PBS Newshour? The point is, you'll find articles like that in Time and other "lay journals". The "articles" in the NEJM are opinion pieces... not peer reviewed. They stirred up a lot of controversy, but there's always controversy when the university docs/academics, who set most "policy" do their opinions. Nothing new. Bottom line, fetal tissue has some use... as you'll note with the immortalized cell lines, its been many years since new ones, as the technology now allows for more specific immortalized lines. There are still some applications, and it would be a loss to the scientific community if banned (which won't happen), but not a devastating loss, as it would have been 20-30 years ago.

 

[minnie616]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

From the WSJ:

Universities use fetal tissue for research into Down syndrome and Ebola vaccine. Fetal livers and kidneys can be cultured to grow connective tissue cells. Critics say using fetal tissue is outdated and that scientists can get better results with umbilical-cord blood, monkey cells or mice whose immune system has been deactivated and seeded with human cells. They also said already established lines of fetal cells can be used.
...

“The need isn’t as great as it once was, but it’s still important and [stopping fetal-tissue research] would be detrimental to the public health,” said Dr. David Orentlicher, an Indiana University bioethicist and former director of medical ethics at the American Medical Association. “For much of the newer research you need new cells. If you have a drug and want to find out if its toxic to liver, you need liver tissue.”

Read more:

State Lawmakers Target Fetal-Tissue Research - WSJ

 

[joG]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

No, I mean you believe propoganda (ex CMPs claims) except when it's not from your side.

When the same story is confirmed by French, German, Brit and sometimes Russian media, I tend to believe a US source that is true. If it is propaganda, then yes, I might fall for it.

 

[LowDown]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

Complains about how the NEJM is histrionic and divisive

Believes CMP's histrionic and divisive claims

I'm not aware the CMP is making any claims. They are just producing videos of Planned Parenthood officials in their own words.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

They are fraudulently manipulating what is said by duplicitous editing. A bit like climate denial.

 

[Lursa]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

When the same story is confirmed by French, German, Brit and sometimes Russian media, I tend to believe a US source that is true. If it is propaganda, then yes, I might fall for it.

LOLOL

And are the media in those countries investigating PP too? Or is this just a convenient excuse to not accept the various legal entities' findings of no illegal activity? :doh

 

[sangha]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

I'm not aware the CMP is making any claims.

I'll add that to the list

 

[joG]

Re: New England Journal Of Medicine Exposes Undeniable Truths About Planned Parenthoo

LOLOL

And are the media in those countries investigating PP too? Or is this just a convenient excuse to not accept the various legal entities' findings of no illegal activity? :doh

It has been mentioned, but with less excitement.