New Christendom: War and Rebirth

[Risky Thicket]

In some ways, he's not. Jesus Himself was a tribalist. He came for His people, the Jews. That's quite clear. When Paul took Christianity outside Judaism, where did he go -- EUROPE.

Was that after Jesus went to India and studied with Buddhists?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Onward christian barbarians to rape and pillage the educated but soft mass's in the name of Jesus

Why the germanic knights did that to the Poles and Lithuanians (Teutonic Knights), why cant some wannabe phallangists do the same today. Imagine the fun young white christian males would have rampaging in an ethnically chinese district, killing the males and raping the women, just like the Christian barbarians did in the golden age of Christian expansion (excluding the first large phase when Rome converted)

 

[ElCid]

Aren't you the guy who was a having crisis of faith last week? Yes, you were. Or you said you were, at any rate. I submit you were trolling for the Lord. This week you're pimping for Jesus. So like when you aren't on the Internet do you like stand on street corners and preach to cars?

Nah, Dog. I was experiencing my usual post-Easter-season exhaustion with rituals and endless Masses. It happens every year. Besides, I don't seem to be converting anyone here, so if I were engaged in the kind of subterfuge you're alleging, it certainly isn't working. BTW, is that a Georgia bulldog? Georgia rocks, Dog.

 

[ElCid]

I really don't know what to make of you, El Cid.
Normally I don't like to question whether a poster is sincere in what they say, at least not without good an demonstrable reasons. Calling a man a liar without proving it is a cowardly act, especially from the anonymity of the Internet.
However, presenting such an extreme position, and implying that it is the position of some existing organization, provokes me to wonder if we are being "had". Again, I don't like to question someone's honestly... but in a previous thread where you were asking for advice on possibly changing denominations from Catholic, there were some questions as to whether your OP was actually a bait thread.
It is rather easy for you believe that because you live in an age when it is not a daily reality. If you'd grown up in such a culture, it is vanishingly unlikely that you would question it. I would point out that Israel was warlike and tribal in pursuit of land in Exodus/etc. It was God's will in that age that his chosen people of that era take that land by such means as was necessary. Was it not the same God who told them to conquer Caanan?
You and I are fortunate enough to live in a time and a place where it is not necessary for a person to stand with his tribe and fight all other tribes merely for the right to live, and the ability to feed his children for another winter. Peace is easy for us. Yet we should never forget that for most of humanity throughout most of history it was not so; and it is still "not so" in some parts of the world.
"Take care if you say you stand, lest you fall." You live in a peaceful society; your susceptibility to warlike tribalism has not been tested.
But what then is a nation, but a tribe writ large? And all nations are warlike at need; if they feel threatened, or if the need of their own people is great. If you wish to be a non-participant in tribal war for land or resources, you'd do well to renounce your citizenship and forever ban yourself from the use of petroleum products, diamonds, or any of the other myriad things nations make war over.
This too, I think is an intresting quote:

It's simple, Gosh. I'm a Western Christian nationalist, deep down. I want to see a renewal of Christendom, and Christian holy war, against the enemies of God's New Elect Nation (Western Christian Man). I get confused, from time to time, whenever I descend into traditional, denominational worship. Getting caught up in the silly, sectarian squabbles over who is right, whose theological details are more convincing, what it takes to be 'saved', how to be the most politically correct Christian one can be, etc., etc., I stumble around in darkness for a short while, before waking up, again. The reality of my true calling then avails itself, and I resume the crusade for Western Christian Civilization.

 

[Jetboogieman]

It's simple, Gosh. I'm a Western Christian nationalist, deep down. I want to see a renewal of Christendom, and Christian holy war, against the enemies of God's New Elect Nation (Western Christian Man). I get confused, from time to time, whenever I descend into traditional, denominational worship. Getting caught up in the silly, sectarian squabbles over who is right, whose theological details are more convincing, what it takes to be 'saved', how to be the most politically correct Christian one can be, etc., etc., I stumble around in darkness for a short while, before waking up, again. The reality of my true calling then avails itself, and I resume the crusade for Western Christian Civilization.

And I pray this backward, war mongering, self rightous, possibly genocidal, murderous thinking doesn't prevail in any way shape or form.

 

[spud_meister]

It's simple, Gosh. I'm a Western Christian nationalist, deep down. I want to see a renewal of Christendom, and Christian holy war, against the enemies of God's New Elect Nation (Western Christian Man). I get confused, from time to time, whenever I descend into traditional, denominational worship. Getting caught up in the silly, sectarian squabbles over who is right, whose theological details are more convincing, what it takes to be 'saved', how to be the most politically correct Christian one can be, etc., etc., I stumble around in darkness for a short while, before waking up, again. The reality of my true calling then avails itself, and I resume the crusade for Western Christian Civilization.

Do you find out if someone's a witch by weighing them against a duck?

 

[Slartibartfast]

My biggest concern with adherents of other religions (and those who profess Christianity as well) is that a good bit of the population is warlike and barbaric, especially in the more tribal regions such as in Africa or the middle east. Why should I promote more of this behavior. The lack of civilization is something we should discourage. Do you think Jesus was for killing people? Would you rather put your trust in God or in your gun?

 

[X Factor]

And I pray this backward, war mongering, self rightous, possibly genocidal, murderous thinking doesn't prevail in any way shape or form.

No reason to worry. I'm sure it would never be more prevalent in Christianity than is in, say, Islam.

 

[ElCid]

Do you find out if someone's a witch by weighing them against a duck?

No, but I must warn you: anyone caught on the premises looking like the chap in your avatar, would certainly fall under suspicion.

 

[ElCid]

"It is quite clear from this passage that Jesus came for Jews and non-Jews alike."

No, he didn't. It was Paul who took Christianity to the Gentiles, and Paul didn't know Jesus. Jesus ministered to the poor Jewish masses. He criticized the Gentiles while doing so. He hesitated to help the Syro-Phoenician woman, suggesting non-Jews were 'dogs', begging for His 'crumbs'. Yes, He spoke to a handful of Gentiles, and helped a few, but he was Jewish, and ministered to Jews, almost exclusively. I'm talking about what Jesus actually DID, as opposed to the extensive commentary on it, found in the many books of the New Testament. All that is interpretive 'layering' stacked onto His basic story, by scribes who came afterward, scribes who didn't know Jesus, some of whom probably weren't even alive during His lifetime and ministry. When you focus on what he actually DID and SAID, according to the Gospels, it becomes clear: JESUS WAS A JEWISH TRIBALIST.

 

[Slartibartfast]

"It is quite clear from this passage that Jesus came for Jews and non-Jews alike."

No, he didn't. It was Paul who took Christianity to the Gentiles, and Paul didn't know Jesus. Jesus ministered to the poor Jewish masses. He criticized the Gentiles while doing so. He hesitated to help the Syro-Phoenician woman, suggesting non-Jews were 'dogs', begging for His 'crumbs'. Yes, He spoke to a handful of Gentiles, and helped a few, but he was Jewish, and ministered to Jews, almost exclusively. I'm talking about what Jesus actually DID, as opposed to the extensive commentary on it, found in the many books of the New Testament. All that is interpretive 'layering' stacked onto His basic story, by scribes who came afterward, scribes who didn't know Jesus, some of whom probably weren't even alive during His lifetime and ministry. When you focus on what he actually DID and SAID, according to the Gospels, it becomes clear: JESUS WAS A JEWISH TRIBALIST.

Poor woman at the well and roman soldier

 

[Andalublue]

It's nothing more than a stiff-necked version of Political Correctness.

"You can't even write racial abuse on parked cars in excrement any more. It's political correctness gone mad!"

 

[spud_meister]

"It is quite clear from this passage that Jesus came for Jews and non-Jews alike."

No, he didn't. It was Paul who took Christianity to the Gentiles, and Paul didn't know Jesus. Jesus ministered to the poor Jewish masses. He criticized the Gentiles while doing so. He hesitated to help the Syro-Phoenician woman, suggesting non-Jews were 'dogs', begging for His 'crumbs'. Yes, He spoke to a handful of Gentiles, and helped a few, but he was Jewish, and ministered to Jews, almost exclusively. I'm talking about what Jesus actually DID, as opposed to the extensive commentary on it, found in the many books of the New Testament. All that is interpretive 'layering' stacked onto His basic story, by scribes who came afterward, scribes who didn't know Jesus, some of whom probably weren't even alive during His lifetime and ministry. When you focus on what he actually DID and SAID, according to the Gospels, it becomes clear: JESUS WAS A JEWISH TRIBALIST.

So why don't you follow his example and become a Jewish tribalist too?

 

[ElCid]

And I pray this backward, war mongering, self rightous, possibly genocidal, murderous thinking doesn't prevail in any way shape or form.

May he who prays best win. Notice: I pray CONSTANTLY.

 

[ElCid]

Poor woman at the well and roman soldier

Jesus helped the woman, but hestitantly, after comparing her tribe to dogs, begging beneath a dinner table. And yes, He did help the Roman soldier. Bravo......ONE Gentile out of how many followers?

 

[ElCid]

So why don't you follow his example and become a Jewish tribalist too?

That's not the historical narrative. God went amongst the Jews, His Chosen. They rejected Him. They killed Him. Their leaders chose mammon, over God. God then went upon His SECOND CHOSEN -- Western Man. Western Man embraced God, and triumphed over the rest of humanity, as a result. I must be what God meant for me to be -- a warrior, in His service, spreading Christian Civilization as far and wide as possible. I will not submit to the fake, renegade authority of G.U.S. (Globalized Underworld Society).

ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

 

[spud_meister]

May he who prays best win. Notice: I pray CONSTANTLY.

God probably send you straight through to voicemail though.

 

[Wiseone]

"It is quite clear from this passage that Jesus came for Jews and non-Jews alike."

No, he didn't. It was Paul who took Christianity to the Gentiles, and Paul didn't know Jesus. Jesus ministered to the poor Jewish masses. He criticized the Gentiles while doing so. He hesitated to help the Syro-Phoenician woman, suggesting non-Jews were 'dogs', begging for His 'crumbs'. Yes, He spoke to a handful of Gentiles, and helped a few, but he was Jewish, and ministered to Jews, almost exclusively. I'm talking about what Jesus actually DID, as opposed to the extensive commentary on it, found in the many books of the New Testament. All that is interpretive 'layering' stacked onto His basic story, by scribes who came afterward, scribes who didn't know Jesus, some of whom probably weren't even alive during His lifetime and ministry. When you focus on what he actually DID and SAID, according to the Gospels, it becomes clear: JESUS WAS A JEWISH TRIBALIST.

What about that story he said about the Good Samaritan? That was pretty critical of a tribe of Israel.

Or one of my favorite passages Matthew 5-12:

5And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,

6And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

7And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

8The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

9For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Yes lets actually talk about what Jesus actually said.

 

[ElCid]

God probably send you straight through to voicemail though.

Has He been answering the phone for you lately?

 

[ElCid]

"What about that story he said about the Good Samaritan? That was pretty critical of a tribe of Israel."

Cool, but it doesn't change what He said about Gentiles, or the woman at the well.

"Or one of my favorite passages Matthew 5-12:

5And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,

6And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

7And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

8The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

9For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Ditto.


"Yes lets actually talk about what Jesus actually said."

Jesus was a Jewish tribalist. All He had to do was go amongst the many Gentiles in His daily life, but He didn't. He said, over and over again, He came for the Jews. Then appeared Paul, who never knew Jesus in the flesh. Paul took Christ to the Gentiles. He took Christ to WESTERN MAN (e.g., the Greeks and Romans).

 

[spud_meister]

That's not the historical narrative. God went amongst the Jews, His Chosen. They rejected Him. They killed Him. He then went upon His SECOND CHOSEN -- Western Man. Western Man embraced God, and triumphed over the rest of humanity, as a result. I must be what God meant for me to be -- a warrior, in His service, spreading Christian Civilization as far and wide as possible.

ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

How do you explain that the oldest continuous Christian church is North African, and that it is Western Man that is the biggest cause in the decline of Christianity. And do you include Turks and the Slavic peoples in your definition of Western Man?

 

[Wiseone]

"It is quite clear from this passage that Jesus came for Jews and non-Jews alike."

No, he didn't. It was Paul who took Christianity to the Gentiles, and Paul didn't know Jesus. Jesus ministered to the poor Jewish masses. He criticized the Gentiles while doing so.

Yet the Roman Centurion, was declared to have more faith anyone in Israel. And in the Good Samaritan Jesus criticizes a Levi for passing a man by and praises the Gentile. That was the point of my last post, which you obviously missed.

 

[ElCid]

"How do you explain that the oldest continuous Christian church is North African......"

Christianity, cashing in on the Pax Romana, grew up within the Roman Empire, which included North Africa. As I said, the Christian world lost over half its territory and its oldest cultural and religious hearths (e.g. cities), when the Muslims began their invasions outside Arabia, in the 7th Century. Saint Augustine himself dwelled in Hippo, in North Africa.


"...and that it is Western Man that is the biggest cause in the decline of Christianity."

It's not 'Western Man', in general. It's some Western people, in particular, i.e., Communists, Liberals, pagans, atheists, etc.


"And do you include Turks and the Slavic peoples in your definition of Western Man?"

I'm referring to culture, not race. CULTURE............not race. Nurture, not nature.

 

[ElCid]

Yet the Roman Centurion, was declared to have more faith anyone in Israel. And in the Good Samaritan Jesus criticizes a Levi for passing a man by and praises the Gentile. That was the point of my last post, which you obviously missed.

No.............I've considered these arguments and passages for decades now. They don't change other and more significant facts. Jesus did not come for Gentiles. He came for the Jews. THAT is one of the main points of His personal ministry. PAUL, who did not know Jesus in the flesh, took Christianity to the Greeks and Romans. Paul wrote one-fourth of the New Testament, and knew nothing of any such thing as a written gospel. Paul wrote his epistles roughly between the late AD 40s and the late AD 50s. The first gospel -- Mark -- doesn't appear until roughly AD 70.

Jesus = Jews

Paul = Gentiles

Paul, a Greek Jew and Roman citizen, did not know Jesus.