New Car: Lease vs Purchase

[BabaVoss]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

 

[iliveonramen]

Toyota has supposedly gotten closer to a solid state battery which has like a 700 mile range on one charge and can recharge 80% within 15 minutes.

I've read that GM is claiming they are making progress on production techniques that will lower the cost of EV's and provide more options for EV purchasers.

It seems like EV demand and investment is putting us on the cusp of some pretty nice advancements in the tech. I've never leased and typically wouldn't, but now that you mention it, it would make sense now.

 

[mrjurrs]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

I've only bought one new car in my life. It was fine.

I buy used cars 5-7 years old with around 30,000 miles on them and drive them until they die.

 

[NWRatCon]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

Here's how I approach it: if you replace your car annually or every other year, generally leasing makes sense, because you're not buying depreciation. If you keep a car longer than 5 years, you are retaining trade-in value. If your return on investment exceeds the interest on a car loan, take the loan. If not, use your cash. I've done all but lease, because I generally keep cars for 10 years or more.

 

[BabaVoss]

Here's how I approach it: if you replace your car annually or every other year, generally leasing makes sense, because you're not buying depreciation. If you keep a car longer than 5 years, you are retaining trade-in value. If your return on investment exceeds the interest on a car loan, take the loan. If not, use your cash. I've done all but lease, because I generally keep cars for 10 years or more.

Good input. I'm leaning more to a lease this time because of the EV factor. We'll see what terms they offer when the time comes.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Toyota has supposedly gotten closer to a solid state battery which has like a 700 mile range on one charge and can recharge 80% within 15 minutes.

I've read that GM is claiming they are making progress on production techniques that will lower the cost of EV's and provide more options for EV purchasers.

It seems like EV demand and investment is putting us on the cusp of some pretty nice advancements in the tech. I've never leased and typically wouldn't, but now that you mention it, it would make sense now.

Supposedly never seems to happen.

 

[iliveonramen]

Supposedly never seems to happen.

Well, they are claiming it will be mass produced by 2027

 

[phoenix2020]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

I would first start by registering an account at leasehackr and posting there. The de facto home of expertise on buy/lease topics on the web, including target residuals and whether it's a good fiscal decision or not.

I've done all of the above, and it really depends. My first EV, a Focus EV, was a terrible car and unfortunately a buy that turned out to be a really, really bad move, because the vehicle was terrible, I should never have bought it, and when I needed to sell it I got virtually nothing for it. I later bought Tesla Model S when they were new, and had no regrets because it ended up holding its value extremely well when I finally sold it like 8 years later. During the time we owned the S, we also started and finished a lease on a Model 3 for my wife (not a great deal but not a bad one), started and finished a lease on a Bolt EV that was a stupid good deal ($220/month, nothing down!), finished that, then bought a new Model 3. With my wife having moderate allergic reactions to Elon Musk, and wanting a small SUV, we'll likely switch the Model 3 sometime in the next year and it'll be a fiscal disaster. Looking at a Lucid Gravity, maybe a Ford MachE. Macan EV would be perfect but too expensive I think. So my own personal lesson is that leases can be bad or good, and purchasing outright can be bad or good. Hope you make a good choice

My one piece of advice is to make sure you get a model with a NACS connector. Don't worry too much about the "new tech" thing - this is a space with relatively stable technology -- batteries and electroc motors have been around for a century -- and the name of the game is incremental improvement. You'll see lots of people chiming in about how something like solid state batteries are going to completely revolutionize everything any day now, but the reality is that each year EVs will get 3-4% better.

 

[BabaVoss]

I would first start by registering an account at leasehackr and posting there. The de facto home of expertise on buy/lease topics on the web, including target residuals and whether it's a good fiscal decision or not.

I've done all of the above, and it really depends. My first EV, a Focus EV, was a terrible car and unfortunately a buy that turned out to be a really, really bad move, because the vehicle was terrible, I should never have bought it, and when I needed to sell it I got virtually nothing for it. I later bought Tesla Model S when they were new, and had no regrets because it ended up holding its value extremely well when I finally sold it like 8 years later. During the time we owned the S, we also started and finished a lease on a Model 3 for my wife (not a great deal but not a bad one), started and finished a lease on a Bolt EV that was a stupid good deal ($220/month, nothing down!), finished that, then bought a new Model 3. With my wife having moderate allergic reactions to Elon Musk, and wanting a small SUV, we'll likely switch the Model 3 sometime in the next year and it'll be a fiscal disaster. Looking at a Lucid Gravity, maybe a Ford MachE. Macan EV would be perfect but too expensive I think. So my own personal lesson is that leases can be bad or good, and purchasing outright can be bad or good. Hope you make a good choice

My one piece of advice is to make sure you get a model with a NACS connector. Don't worry too much about the "new tech" thing - this is a space with relatively stable technology -- batteries and electroc motors have been around for a century -- and the name of the game is incremental improvement. You'll see lots of people chiming in about how something like solid state batteries are going to completely revolutionize everything any day now, but the reality is that each year EVs will get 3-4% better.

Thanks. A few comments;
Of the replacement vehicles you mentioned, I think you will find the Lucid to be substantially more expensive than the Porsche.
I would have some concerns about Lucid's long term existence, much more than I do for Rivian.
I've heard very good things about the Mach E.
The Rivian R2 looks to me to be an excellent small SUV, and will come with the NACS connector. Not on your list?
I agree with your wife regarding Tesla - I refuse to put any more money into Elon's pocket. I have their power system - solar panels and batteries - and they are quite good.
But I would look elsewhere if I were to do it today. Just becuase of Musk.

 

[phoenix2020]

Thanks. A few comments;
Of the replacement vehicles you mentioned, I think you will find the Lucid to be substantially more expensive than the Porsche.
I would have some concerns about Lucid's long term existence, much more than I do for Rivian.
I've heard very good things about the Mach E.

The Gravity is at a much more attractive price point than the Macan EV and the tariff situation only further compounds matters. Just to be competitive with the Gravity you'd need to be in Macan Turbo territory to start, and if you know Porsche then you know that you'll be seeing another 20-25% in options on top of the base price, minimum. Add tariffs and any fleeing sense of value is completely lost. I think the Gravity is the EV SUV to beat and have spent enough time driving Airs to have some confidence in the brand and their quality, hence it's high on my list. The one upside for the Macan is that it's ergonomically perfect for my wife - when I was shopping for a new SUV for me last year the Macan was perfect for her, but just too small for what I wanted.

The Rivian R2 looks to me to be an excellent small SUV, and will come with the NACS connector. Not on your list?

I've been keeping my eye on it, but so far there isn't a lot to stay about it. The Macan here now, the Gravity is pretty much here, the R2 is still coming sometime next year. The main issue is ergonomics; I have driven the R1S and it's fine for me but my wife (on the shorter side in height) had real troubles with a comfortable seating position. Since that tends to be the largest actual constraint when it comes to our cars, the R2 may be a wait-and-see.

I agree with your wife regarding Tesla - I refuse to put any more money into Elon's pocket. I have their power system - solar panels and batteries - and they are quite good.
But I would look elsewhere if I were to do it today. Just becuase of Musk.

Tesla vehicles are amazing. They deserve all the credit and accolades they receive because they have a damn fine engineering team. Unfortunately we are just one of many multi-Tesla households that will never buy a single one of their vehicles again.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I would first start by registering an account at leasehackr and posting there. The de facto home of expertise on buy/lease topics on the web, including target residuals and whether it's a good fiscal decision or not.

I've done all of the above, and it really depends. My first EV, a Focus EV, was a terrible car and unfortunately a buy that turned out to be a really, really bad move, because the vehicle was terrible, I should never have bought it, and when I needed to sell it I got virtually nothing for it. I later bought Tesla Model S when they were new, and had no regrets because it ended up holding its value extremely well when I finally sold it like 8 years later. During the time we owned the S, we also started and finished a lease on a Model 3 for my wife (not a great deal but not a bad one), started and finished a lease on a Bolt EV that was a stupid good deal ($220/month, nothing down!), finished that, then bought a new Model 3. With my wife having moderate allergic reactions to Elon Musk, and wanting a small SUV, we'll likely switch the Model 3 sometime in the next year and it'll be a fiscal disaster. Looking at a Lucid Gravity, maybe a Ford MachE. Macan EV would be perfect but too expensive I think. So my own personal lesson is that leases can be bad or good, and purchasing outright can be bad or good. Hope you make a good choice

My one piece of advice is to make sure you get a model with a NACS connector. Don't worry too much about the "new tech" thing - this is a space with relatively stable technology -- batteries and electroc motors have been around for a century -- and the name of the game is incremental improvement. You'll see lots of people chiming in about how something like solid state batteries are going to completely revolutionize everything any day now, but the reality is that each year EVs will get 3-4% better.

I own a model 3 and an SUV Y. I just this vacation of my son in the Y and move from Danville, CA to Portland, Oregon and drove back after flying to Canada and back to Portland (we played in double a pro baseball). We had stopped four or more getting energy, and the gas was way done then the election in dollars.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

The technology is changing rapidly. This is why EVs are not a good investment. In 3-4 years, today's technology could be completely obsolete, rendering your EV virtially worthless. Save as much as you can on the front end, plan on trading it in 3-4 years, and repeat the process.

 

[BabaVoss]

The Gravity is at a much more attractive price point than the Macan EV and the tariff situation only further compounds matters. Just to be competitive with the Gravity you'd need to be in Macan Turbo territory to start, and if you know Porsche then you know that you'll be seeing another 20-25% in options on top of the base price, minimum. Add tariffs and any fleeing sense of value is completely lost. I think the Gravity is the EV SUV to beat and have spent enough time driving Airs to have some confidence in the brand and their quality, hence it's high on my list. The one upside for the Macan is that it's ergonomically perfect for my wife - when I was shopping for a new SUV for me last year the Macan was perfect for her, but just too small for what I wanted.

I've been keeping my eye on it, but so far there isn't a lot to stay about it. The Macan here now, the Gravity is pretty much here, the R2 is still coming sometime next year. The main issue is ergonomics; I have driven the R1S and it's fine for me but my wife (on the shorter side in height) had real troubles with a comfortable seating position. Since that tends to be the largest actual constraint when it comes to our cars, the R2 may be a wait-and-see.

We are covering a wide range of pricing here. You’ve piqued my interest in the Gravity, but that’s close to $100k. As max optioned R2 will be $65k.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The technology is changing rapidly. This is why EVs are not a good investment. In 3-4 years, today's technology could be completely obsolete, rendering your EV virtially worthless. Save as much as you can on the front end, plan on trading it in 3-4 years, and repeat the process.

LOL: Gas, Oil, and tune ups: Brakes, Radiators, Batteries, etc. etc. My Y I spent nothing to do for the miles with the gas to spend 5 dollar in CA and 4 dollars in Oregon. The elector to 25 or 30 minutes go to $11.50. Time to spend in to walk or eat or drink (not booze).

 

[Fearandloathing]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

I regretted leasing.

In part because I was not entirely satisfied with the car, a Ford Probe that I found hard to unload because of the lease. It ended up costing me at least 30% more per month of the term of ownership.

With that, I stress in either event with ANY new car is read the reviews; ignore the hype and heed the independent reviewers.

Frankly with today's marketing of autos I'm happy to be a non driver

 

[Stealers Wheel]

LOL: Gas, Oil, and tune ups: Brakes, Radiators, Batteries, etc. etc. My Y I spent nothing to do for the miles with the gas to spend 5 dollar in CA and 4 dollars in Oregon. The elector to 25 or 30 minutes go to $11.50. Time to spend in to walk or eat or drink (not booze).

When you lease a car, intending to trade in 3-4 years, you should not have to spend on oil, radiators, batteries, tune ups, even brakes unless you're really hard on your car. As any car ages beyond four years, it becomes more expensive to maintain on a monthly basis. By leasing, you will have that monthly nut, but you are always driving a relatively new car with few maintenance costs. Just build it into your budget.

 

[phoenix2020]

We are covering a wide range of pricing here. You’ve piqued my interest in the Gravity, but that’s close to $100k. As max optioned R2 will be $65k.

Knowing both, I think Rivian is the safer bet. I am deeply impressed by Lucid's engineering acumen which influences my opinion and probably generates bias. Pragmatically, Rivian has some terrific product.

 

[NWRatCon]

The technology is changing rapidly. This is why EVs are not a good investment. In 3-4 years, today's technology could be completely obsolete, rendering your EV virtially worthless. Save as much as you can on the front end, plan on trading it in 3-4 years, and repeat the process.

I completely disagree. Yes, the technology is changing, but my biggest regret is not having gone electric sooner. I'm betting Phoenix agrees, having owned several. The charging infrastructure is improving, but I rarely have to use it. I charge at home on regular outlet. I don't even have a level 2 charger.

Of course, that depends on how you want to use it. I typically only drive locally, 30-50 miles a day, and avoid the highway if I can. I can replace that usage overnight. I have a 2017 Bolt Premier, with all the bells and whistles. I get over 200 miles on a full charge.

If I want to drive long distances (+100 miles), however, or need the greater carrying capacity, I take my Subaru and pay for gas. Poor thing only gets driven once a month.

 

[NWRatCon]

Knowing both, I think Rivian is the safer bet. I am deeply impressed by Lucid's engineering acumen which influences my opinion and probably generates bias. Pragmatically, Rivian has some terrific product.

Buy Rivian. My son own stock.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

Currently I would say lease an EV. Resale values are not exactly high due to rapid development in ev technology making older ones far less capable than newer ones

If keeping for a long time i would say purchase or if the vehicle has a high Resale value

 

[BabaVoss]

Buy Rivian. My son own stock.

So do I.

 

[phoenix2020]

Looking for input.

I plan to buy a new SUV EV next year - a Rivian R2 - once they become available.
This will be my first EV.
It will replace my 2018 Toyota 4Runner.
I normally pay cash for a new car every 5-7 years or so.
I have a second ‘fun car” and my wife has an SUV.

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

Polestar 3 might be worth looking into - I just heard from a buddy that they're running some pretty good lease deals and although I haven't looked into them myself, I was reminded of this thread.

Volvo has been in the electrification game longer than most and has built some good DNA in this space.

Polestar 3 | Polestar US

With optimized aerodynamics, a potent electric powertrain, and carefully sourced materials, Polestar 3 is the SUV that's desirable for the right reasons.

www.polestar.com

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Just thinking about the fact that the EV is new tech, I wondered if I should lease instead of buy.
In my case, my current plan is to lease it and leave the money I have set aside for it in investments.

Thoughts?

Maybe look at trade-in or resale values of the type of EV brand you are after? If the value sinks like a stone (and I've read about some Porsche dealerships in the UK that refused to buy back Porsche EVs) then leasing is the better deal.

However - leasing may work differently in the US, here the lease company takes back the vehicle you leased and offers you a new choice and that way you always have the latest tech.

 

[BabaVoss]

Polestar 3 might be worth looking into - I just heard from a buddy that they're running some pretty good lease deals and although I haven't looked into them myself, I was reminded of this thread.

Volvo has been in the electrification game longer than most and has built some good DNA in this space.

Polestar 3 | Polestar US

With optimized aerodynamics, a potent electric powertrain, and carefully sourced materials, Polestar 3 is the SUV that's desirable for the right reasons.

www.polestar.com

Haven't been impressed with the Polestar offerings.
Bland, underpowered (unless you opt for much more expensive drive setup), too small for my purposes.
Pricey for what they are, imo.
Even though I'm replacing a Toyota, I'd like to buy an American made vehicle, if I can.

 

[BabaVoss]

Maybe look at trade-in or resale values of the type of EV brand you are after? If the value sinks like a stone (and I've read about some Porsche dealerships in the UK that refused to buy back Porsche EVs) then leasing is the better deal.

However - leasing may work differently in the US, here the lease company takes back the vehicle you leased and offers you a new choice and that way you always have the latest tech.

Good idea, but there aren't enough Rivians out there yet to get a good feel for it. I have a friend who bought a Rivian R1T - used - and is thrilled with it. I don't know what he paid for it though.

Leaning toward the lease option for exactly those reasons.