jonny5
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2012
- Messages
- 27,581
- Reaction score
- 4,670
- Location
- Republic of Florida
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
Yes, under Obamacare. The percent of household income that has to go to premiums before subsidies kick in is set in statute.
Here's the source: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56571Federal Subsidies. In CBO and JCT’s projections, net federal subsidies (that is, the cost of all the subsidies minus the taxes and penalties) in 2021 for insured people are $920 billion, or 4.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). In 2030, that annual amount is projected to reach $1.4 trillion, also 4.4 percent of GDP. Over the 2021–2030 period, subsidies are projected to total $10.8 trillion.
Premiums aren't coming down (barely) due to anything Biden or Obama did. The biggest driver is the repeal of the tax. Obama's 'plan' still gets credit for the massive increases in premiums it created out of the gate.
Since HealthCare.gov implemented the ARP’s expanded advance payments of premium tax credits amounts on April 1, nearly 2 million current enrollees have returned to the Marketplace and reduced their monthly premiums by over 40 percent, from $100 to $57, on average after premium tax credits.
The ARP also makes it more affordable for new consumers to purchase and use Marketplace coverage. For new consumers selecting plans during the SEP, after increased tax credits the average monthly premium fell over 25 percent, from $117 for those enrolling from February 15 through March 31 to $86 for those enrolling in April
No, insurance is everyone sharing risk and paying more if they are a higher share. In our system only im risking. I pay for my healthcare, and then i pay for theirs too. They are not paying. They are subsidized by tax dollars or debt, which is just delayed taxation.
Federal Subsidies. In CBO and JCT’s projections, net federal subsidies (that is, the cost of all the subsidies minus the taxes and penalties) in 2021 for insured people are $920 billion, or 4.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). In 2030, that annual amount is projected to reach $1.4 trillion, also 4.4 percent of GDP. Over the 2021–2030 period, subsidies are projected to total $10.8 trillion.
Oh, you mean Biden is coming through for Real American Workers? You don't say! I'm sure the GOP will give him credit any day now for lowering the cost of health insurance for 'middle class working families.' The GOP have tried for a decade now and seem lost about how to do it, so kudos to Biden and the Democrats for getting it done in just a few weeks.
Well, as you know, prices had been going up for a few decades pre-ACA. If you want to argue costs rose faster post-ACA show your work.More lies?
Obamacare raised the cost of healthcare for the middle class.
Middle-class Americans getting crushed by rising health insurance costs
Premiums and deductible contributions are eating up more of middle-class Americans’ paychecks, increasingly burdening America’s middle-class working families.abcnews.go.com
ObamaCare is making the middle class the new uninsured
Brace yourself for the next health insurance crisis: The middle class is becoming the new uninsured. The Affordable Care Act added millions of mostly poor people to the insurance rolls. But the law…nypost.com
The cult of the left.
More lies?
Obamacare raised the cost of healthcare for the middle class.
Middle-class Americans getting crushed by rising health insurance costs
Premiums and deductible contributions are eating up more of middle-class Americans’ paychecks, increasingly burdening America’s middle-class working families.abcnews.go.com
ObamaCare is making the middle class the new uninsured
Brace yourself for the next health insurance crisis: The middle class is becoming the new uninsured. The Affordable Care Act added millions of mostly poor people to the insurance rolls. But the law…nypost.com
The cult of the left.
The median deductible for new consumers during the SEP fell by nearly 90 percent, from $450 prior to April 1 to $50 as consumers used their increased tax credits from the ARP to choose plans with lower out-of-pocket costs.
For new consumers selecting plans during the SEP, after increased tax credits the average monthly premium fell over 25 percent, from $117 for those enrolling from February 15 through March 31 to $86 for those enrolling in April.
That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.Too bad the GOP wasn't able in a decade to come up with something better that those idiots, Obama and Biden and the Democrats. Stunning, don't you think?
FWIW, yes, the legislation passed soon after inauguration is bringing down premiums and copays. It's just a fact, reality, something that did happen, whether you want to admit it or not. Gaslighting me isn't going to work.
And, no, the 'repeal of the tax' whatever that means has actually nothing at all to do with monthly premiums or copays.
An average of 2%Lots of families' premium contributions have fallen substantially this year.
You live in a society with other people right?Even when its not more affordable to the rest of us and its all funded with debt and massively increases govt power and interference? The people signing up are being subsidized by me (or debt). So im paying for my healthcare, and theirs too. Hows that a good thing for me?
This is true, but since the current political climate makes it easier to work with and improve upon the system we have, a single payer system will just have to wait.You don't sign up for Obama Care. You sign up with an Obama Care compliant plan.
We need single-payer anyway.
Oh, you mean Biden is coming through for Real American Workers? You don't say! I'm sure the GOP will give him credit any day now for lowering the cost of health insurance for 'middle class working families.' The GOP have tried for a decade now and seem lost about how to do it, so kudos to Biden and the Democrats for getting it done in just a few weeks.
The GOP haven't ever produced a working alternative. And when they did try to vote on healthcare legislation under Trump, the GOP had zero public hearings, and didn't even let the Democrats in the negotiating room, so how in the hell were they to "help" with that process? It was entirely behind closed doors, then produced to the Democrats as a done deal. Did you forget this?That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.
Read the OP - it tells you why premiums AND copays/deductibles dropped, very significantly for a bunch of folks. It's the legislation passed by Democrats and signed by Biden. If you disagree, show your work.You need to look up 'gaslighting' - as well as research why the premiums slightly decreased.
See post #33. And I pointed out the reason for the slight decrease.The GOP haven't ever produced a working alternative. And when they did try to vote on healthcare legislation under Trump, the GOP had zero public hearings, and didn't even let the Democrats in the negotiating room, so how in the hell were they to "help" with that process? It was entirely behind closed doors, then produced to the Democrats as a done deal. Did you forget this?
Compare that to the dozens of public hearings for ACA, and the 100s of amendments during the process submitted by the GOP. There's no comparison.
Read the OP - it tells you why premiums AND copays/deductibles dropped, very significantly for a bunch of folks. It's the legislation passed by Democrats and signed by Biden. If you disagree, show your work.
The 'tax' - I assume the tax for those without insurance - cannot possibly impact premiums and copays as it only applies to those without insurance.See post #33. And I pointed out the reason for the slight decrease.
What law did Biden pass?
The OP is from a paywalled and questionable source.
The democrats passed the ACA with no republican votes and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. donald promised a "big, beautiful" health care plan that we have yet to see and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. The republicans haven't even attempted to propose a viable health care plan and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. The republicans tried everything they could to get ride of the ACA and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. That's some major-league gaslighting, sport.That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.
You need to look up 'gaslighting' - as well as research why the premiums slightly decreased.
You are right - I didn't know what law you were talking about because you didn't say what it was. Perhaps you could have shared the law instead of being a jerk?The 'tax' - I assume the tax for those without insurance - cannot possibly impact premiums and copays as it only applies to those without insurance.
And if you don't know which law, then you're speaking from a position of total ignorance. It's a 10 second Google search away if you're interested. Or you could read the HHS release - it's not paywalled.
You really need to look up the term if you are going to keep using it.The democrats passed the ACA with no republican votes and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. donald promised a "big, beautiful" health care plan that we have yet to see and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. The republicans haven't even attempted to propose a viable health care plan and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. The republicans tried everything they could to get ride of the ACA and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. That's some major-league gaslighting, sport.
That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.
You need to look up 'gaslighting' - as well as research why the premiums slightly decreased.
An average of 2%
What law did Biden pass?
The OP is from a paywalled and questionable source.
It was linked in the OP, and Greenbeard quoted from both the article in the NYT and the HHS release. I assumed that since you denied that anything Biden had signed helped, you were aware of the law or at least bothered to read the OP. From the OP:You are right - I didn't know what law you were talking about because you didn't say what it was. Perhaps you could have shared the law instead of being a jerk?
And:Nearly one million Americans have signed up for Affordable Care Act coverage during the first 10 weeks of a special open enrollment period the Biden administration began in February.
A total of 940,000 people enrolled in Obamacare coverage between Feb. 15 and April 30, new data released Thursday by Health and Human Services shows. Of those new enrollees, nearly half bought coverage last month, after Congress added billions in subsidies included in the most recent stimulus package.
With that additional funding, the average monthly premium that Healthcare.gov consumers paid fell to $86 for those signing up in April, down from $117 in February and March (before the new subsidies).
The point of my first comment was Biden and the Democrats delivered within weeks what Trump and the GOP have promised for a decade. The biggest beneficiaries of the new subsidies are exactly the 'middle class working families' who made too much to make healthcare affordable for them - lots of them older, within a decade or so of Medicare, and making a decent but not great salary, often two earner couples, who either fell outside the 400% of FPL cliff, or whose subsidies didn't really help with healthcare insurance, or had high deductibles. The new law limits healthcare spending to 8.5% of expected income, and so helped a lot of people at the upper end of ACA subsidies, and beyond. Much more here:The ARP also helped to lower out of pocket spending costs for new consumers. The median deductible for new consumers during the SEP fell by nearly 90 percent, from $450 prior to April 1 to $50 as consumers used their increased tax credits from the ARP to choose plans with lower out-of-pocket costs.
As @JasperL pointed out, more than a third of those subsidies (and the fastest growing category) are tax subsidies for employer-based insurance. Trying to figure out who's got moral superiority (spoiler alert: no one) when it comes to health care financing is a tedious and ultimately fruitless game.
Better to just be pleased that the health system is working better to serve more people than to get worked up into some sort of pointless class-rage. Besides, as I've pointed out to you in other threads, the ACA came in so far under budget due to the slowdown in health care cost growth that expanding it to make coverage more affordable for millions of Americans is a no-brainer at this point.
Opinion NY Post piece from 2017 and an ABC piece from 2019.More lies?
Obamacare raised the cost of healthcare for the middle class.
Middle-class Americans getting crushed by rising health insurance costs
Premiums and deductible contributions are eating up more of middle-class Americans’ paychecks, increasingly burdening America’s middle-class working families.abcnews.go.com
ObamaCare is making the middle class the new uninsured
Brace yourself for the next health insurance crisis: The middle class is becoming the new uninsured. The Affordable Care Act added millions of mostly poor people to the insurance rolls. But the law…nypost.com
The cult of the left.
Looks like boomers in Nebraska and Wyoming are making out like fatcats on this. And they'll still vote hardcore republican.It was linked in the OP, and Greenbeard quoted from both the article in the NYT and the HHS release. I assumed that since you denied that anything Biden had signed helped, you were aware of the law or at least bothered to read the OP. From the OP:
And:
The point of my first comment was Biden and the Democrats delivered within weeks what Trump and the GOP have promised for a decade. The biggest beneficiaries of the new subsidies are exactly the 'middle class working families' who made too much to make healthcare affordable for them - lots of them older, within a decade or so of Medicare, and making a decent but not great salary, often two earner couples, who either fell outside the 400% of FPL cliff, or whose subsidies didn't really help with healthcare insurance, or had high deductibles. The new law limits healthcare spending to 8.5% of expected income, and so helped a lot of people at the upper end of ACA subsidies, and beyond. Much more here:
One of Greenbeard's links takes you to a map that I think deserves to be linked directly. Look at who the big beneficiaries are of this bill, and where. They are older, often in red states, who aren't making near poverty wages, but making a good living at age 60 but with high healthcare costs because fo their age. It made insurance DRASTICALLY more affordable for them. That's a good thing. Better if they just transitioned into Medicare but this is a very good answer for those folks who kind of fell into a donut hole.
View attachment 67332526
Opinion NY Post piece from 2017 and an ABC piece from 2019.
You blaming the left for the trump years of tearing apart the ACA is hilarious.
You live in a society with other people right?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?