• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Nearly one million people signed up for Obamacare coverage this spring.

Yes, under Obamacare. The percent of household income that has to go to premiums before subsidies kick in is set in statute.

Federal Subsidies. In CBO and JCT’s projections, net federal subsidies (that is, the cost of all the subsidies minus the taxes and penalties) in 2021 for insured people are $920 billion, or 4.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). In 2030, that annual amount is projected to reach $1.4 trillion, also 4.4 percent of GDP. Over the 2021–2030 period, subsidies are projected to total $10.8 trillion.
 
Here's the source: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56571

And the big 'subsidies' are for Medicaid (433B in 2021) and subsidies for employer-provided health insurance (303B). ACA subsidies are a small fraction of those, about 60B.

So if you object to subsidies outside of Medicare and Medicaid, the place where the big money has gone for DECADES is to those who get tax-free health insurance at work. And the more money one makes and the better the plan at work, the bigger the subsidy. Of course we don't care about that, because that money helps US, who of course deserve that freebie, and not THEM, who aren't deserving of a subsidy!!
 
Premiums aren't coming down (barely) due to anything Biden or Obama did. The biggest driver is the repeal of the tax. Obama's 'plan' still gets credit for the massive increases in premiums it created out of the gate.

Lots of families' premium contributions have fallen substantially this year.

 

As @JasperL pointed out, more than a third of those subsidies (and the fastest growing category) are tax subsidies for employer-based insurance. Trying to figure out who's got moral superiority (spoiler alert: no one) when it comes to health care financing is a tedious and ultimately fruitless game.

Better to just be pleased that the health system is working better to serve more people than to get worked up into some sort of pointless class-rage. Besides, as I've pointed out to you in other threads, the ACA came in so far under budget due to the slowdown in health care cost growth that expanding it to make coverage more affordable for millions of Americans is a no-brainer at this point.
 
Last edited:

More lies?

Obamacare raised the cost of healthcare for the middle class.




The cult of the left.
 
Well, as you know, prices had been going up for a few decades pre-ACA. If you want to argue costs rose faster post-ACA show your work.

And the point of the OP is the legislation passed this year DECREASED costs for those on the exchange. We've heard bitching and moaning for a decade now about how the premiums and copays under ACA kill the 'middle class' and this legislation reduces those costs. It's what it does. The GOP have had a decade to improve the ACA and we're still waiting.

I guess in about two more weeks, Trump might finally release his plan that he never got around to releasing for the 4 years he was in office. The GOP have promised 'repeal and replace' for more than a decade. Still waiting. So what is your suggestion if not what Biden signed soon after inauguration? More whining about what those OTHER guys did? Seems to be the limit for our right wing friends.

Anyway, here's a graph of annual premiums. If I bothered to snip the years from the left column you couldn't possibly tell me what year the ACA took effect.

 

The American Rescue Plan to the rescue!
The median deductible for new consumers during the SEP fell by nearly 90 percent, from $450 prior to April 1 to $50 as consumers used their increased tax credits from the ARP to choose plans with lower out-of-pocket costs.
For new consumers selecting plans during the SEP, after increased tax credits the average monthly premium fell over 25 percent, from $117 for those enrolling from February 15 through March 31 to $86 for those enrolling in April.
 
That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.

You need to look up 'gaslighting' - as well as research why the premiums slightly decreased.
 
You live in a society with other people right?
 
You don't sign up for Obama Care. You sign up with an Obama Care compliant plan.

We need single-payer anyway.
This is true, but since the current political climate makes it easier to work with and improve upon the system we have, a single payer system will just have to wait.
 

MORE:
Mitch McConnell Calls for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid Cuts After Passing Tax Cuts, Massive Defense Spending
 
That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.
The GOP haven't ever produced a working alternative. And when they did try to vote on healthcare legislation under Trump, the GOP had zero public hearings, and didn't even let the Democrats in the negotiating room, so how in the hell were they to "help" with that process? It was entirely behind closed doors, then produced to the Democrats as a done deal. Did you forget this?

Compare that to the dozens of public hearings for ACA, and the 100s of amendments during the process submitted by the GOP. There's no comparison.
You need to look up 'gaslighting' - as well as research why the premiums slightly decreased.
Read the OP - it tells you why premiums AND copays/deductibles dropped, very significantly for a bunch of folks. It's the legislation passed by Democrats and signed by Biden. If you disagree, show your work.
 
See post #33. And I pointed out the reason for the slight decrease.

What law did Biden pass?

The OP is from a paywalled and questionable source.
 
See post #33. And I pointed out the reason for the slight decrease.

What law did Biden pass?

The OP is from a paywalled and questionable source.
The 'tax' - I assume the tax for those without insurance - cannot possibly impact premiums and copays as it only applies to those without insurance.

And if you don't know which law, then you're speaking from a position of total ignorance. It's a 10 second Google search away if you're interested. Or you could read the HHS release - it's not paywalled.

 
That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.

You need to look up 'gaslighting' - as well as research why the premiums slightly decreased.
The democrats passed the ACA with no republican votes and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. donald promised a "big, beautiful" health care plan that we have yet to see and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. The republicans haven't even attempted to propose a viable health care plan and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. The republicans tried everything they could to get ride of the ACA and it's the democrats that are refusing to help. That's some major-league gaslighting, sport.
 
You are right - I didn't know what law you were talking about because you didn't say what it was. Perhaps you could have shared the law instead of being a jerk?
 
You really need to look up the term if you are going to keep using it.

Yes - democrats are much more cohesive and supporting of the party line - they don't like independent thought or input. Republicans have the double issue of trying to come to unanimous agreement on a plan, and untangling the absolute mess left by the ACA. There is no good solution for this. It would be much easier if Democrats would participate.
 
That's a tired talking point. Yes, it's difficult to untangle the mess. And yes, with Democrats refusing to help, it wasn't possible to come to agreement.

You need to look up 'gaslighting' - as well as research why the premiums slightly decreased.

Gaslighting is pretending the Dems are “refusing to help” on health care—and in a thread on how the Dems’ return to power for the first time in a decade immediately helped a million Americans gain coverage virtually overnight!

The GOP has spent a decade doing everything it could to sabotage the market, damage the health care system, and hurt families, including by intentionally jacking up premiums. Any attempt to “help” them in that endeavor would be political malpractice, if not outright sociopathy.

An average of 2%

25% premium drops for new customers, 40% for existing. It’s all right in the link you seem to have missed.

What law did Biden pass?

The OP is from a paywalled and questionable source.

The American Rescue Plan. I’m guessing your preferred media sources have you left in the dark about its existence.

Since the ACA came in so far under budget, Dems have been looking to expand the ACA and make coverage more affordable for years. Biden got it done within weeks of taking office.

 
You are right - I didn't know what law you were talking about because you didn't say what it was. Perhaps you could have shared the law instead of being a jerk?
It was linked in the OP, and Greenbeard quoted from both the article in the NYT and the HHS release. I assumed that since you denied that anything Biden had signed helped, you were aware of the law or at least bothered to read the OP. From the OP:

And:
The point of my first comment was Biden and the Democrats delivered within weeks what Trump and the GOP have promised for a decade. The biggest beneficiaries of the new subsidies are exactly the 'middle class working families' who made too much to make healthcare affordable for them - lots of them older, within a decade or so of Medicare, and making a decent but not great salary, often two earner couples, who either fell outside the 400% of FPL cliff, or whose subsidies didn't really help with healthcare insurance, or had high deductibles. The new law limits healthcare spending to 8.5% of expected income, and so helped a lot of people at the upper end of ACA subsidies, and beyond. Much more here:


One of Greenbeard's links takes you to a map that I think deserves to be linked directly. Look at who the big beneficiaries are of this bill, and where. They are older, often in red states, who aren't making near poverty wages, but making a good living at age 60 but with high healthcare costs because fo their age. It made insurance DRASTICALLY more affordable for them. That's a good thing. Better if they just transitioned into Medicare but this is a very good answer for those folks who kind of fell into a donut hole.

 
Last edited:

Subsidizing employer insurance is also wrong. Because the federal govt taxing one person to pay for someone else is wrong. Why should i be "pleased that the health system is working better to serve more people" when its without my consent?
 
Opinion NY Post piece from 2017 and an ABC piece from 2019.

You blaming the left for the trump years of tearing apart the ACA is hilarious.
 
Looks like boomers in Nebraska and Wyoming are making out like fatcats on this. And they'll still vote hardcore republican.
 
Opinion NY Post piece from 2017 and an ABC piece from 2019.

You blaming the left for the trump years of tearing apart the ACA is hilarious.

No...

I find it hilarious that the left claims to have put millions of people on the ACA as a victory march, but at the same time created millions of healthcare poor.


Same shit, but with a different stink.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…