Nazis mingle openly at CPAC, spreading antisemitic conspiracy theories and finding allies

[justabubba]

I'm retired military. I spent years voting via absentee ballot and never saw any fraud. Is this part of Trump's "I hate the military" plan to stop us from voting?

Absentee voting has existed for decades before Trump was raping girls. Why does he think the fraud only began when he lost the election?

notably, even he votes by mail ... recognizable by the use of a sharpie

 

[yankintx]

For most of my life I've had to listen to Republicans lecture the rest of us about how much more patriotic they were because they supported the military and a strong US foreign policy.

Now Trump has turned that around 180 degrees because of his love for authoritarians, especially Putin. And the Trump sheep just follow blindly along.

To see Cadet Bone Spurs come on the stage, kiss the flag in an exaggerated manner, and the MAGA sheep eating it up, freaking hilarious.

 

[Elmo]

There's no "fallacy" in supporting free speech and free assembly rights for those we despise. This is what our political society is based on. To violate it now, because we believe that the evil doctrine of nazism is stronger than democratic ideals and ideology, is to admit defeat. It's tantamount to saying we have no defense, no counter arguments, against nazism.

Moreover, as the ACLU and other organizations and individuals have pointed out, it's in defending the rights of the most despised, the most marginalized, among us, that we defend our own rights.

Once the STATE starts curtailing civil liberties (in the absence of the commission of a crime), we're sliding down that slippery slope. I suspect we wouldn't be able to put the genie back in its bottle.

Ok, so you're not willing to make speech laws to curtail the threat I described in my previous post. Do you have a different solution? Because history has shown that social pressure from principled citizens is not always sufficient to stop Nazis from achieving their grand plans. And the consequences of that are dire.

 

[Sue Sponte]

Yes, Joe Biden is the worst President in U.S. history, he has some form of dimension, and the Democrats hate America. Granted, those are just obvious facts.

It’s gotta be rough emotionally to know the worst president ever, who isn’t even from this dimension, was still a better option to most Americans than giving your hero a second term.

The guy who claims to be the greatest President ever, except for maybe Lincoln, couldn’t beat that demented guy.

Wonder why that is.

 

[justabubba]

It’s gotta be rough emotionally to know the worst president ever, who isn’t even from this dimension, was still a better option to most Americans than giving your hero a second term.

The guy who claims to be the greatest President ever, except for maybe Lincoln, couldn’t beat that demented guy.

Wonder why that is.

limited national kool aid supply is all i've got as a possible answer

 

[Divine_Wind]

notably, even he votes by mail ... recognizable by the use of a sharpie

LOL

He's also missing the point that most elderly people vote by mail, a very conservative demographic. If Trump loses the election again, like the last one where he killed off his voters by pooh-poohing masks and vaccinations, it will, again, be his fault for giving stupid advice to his voters.

 

[SkyFox76]

It’s gotta be rough emotionally to know the worst president ever, who isn’t even from this dimension, was still a better option to most Americans than giving your hero a second term.

The guy who claims to be the greatest President ever, except for maybe Lincoln, couldn’t beat that demented guy.

Wonder why that is.

And now it appears he's broke.

 

[Divine_Wind]

And now it appears he's broke.

Not yet, but it could be coming....and the sooner the better.

 

[Sue Sponte]

And now it appears he's broke.

He is the greatest president ever.

Even though 40% of Republicans in South Carolina said no thanks over the weekend.

 

[Deuce]

Probably in that area. So what?

It is ludicrous to suggest that 90% of nazis and 90% of black people are wrong about which party is the racist one.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I agree the Nazi ****s have a right to speak, even march. Doesn't mean I have to listen. I'm sure they were fine people like those in Charlottsville.

I disagree that Nazi's have the right to do anything at all.

 

[Pyrite]

Ok, so you're not willing to make speech laws to curtail the threat I described in my previous post. Do you have a different solution? Because history has shown that social pressure from principled citizens is not always sufficient to stop Nazis from achieving their grand plans. And the consequences of that are dire.

Of course, I'm not willing to modify our broad civil rights policy in order to silence neonazis in the USA.

Why not? As I've explained, over and over, when the STATE gets into the business of curtailing the civil rights of one group, it's far too easy (and likely) that other groups will be similarly targeted.

It's by ensuring the civil rights of the most marginalized, of the most repugnant, that we safeguard the civil rights of all of us.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp and to appreciate. In other words, I'm not willing to jeopardize the civil rights of everyone else (including my own) just because I fear the messages/ideologies of another group. If we can survive only by having the GOVERNMENT's proscribing the rights to assembly and to free speech of those whom we don't like, well, we're not much, are we?

 

[Pyrite]

Anthony60 said:
Yes, Joe Biden is the worst President in U.S. history, he has some form of dimension, and the Democrats hate America. Granted, those are just obvious facts.

It’s gotta be rough emotionally to know the worst president ever, who isn’t even from this dimension, was still a better option to most Americans than giving your hero a second term.

The guy who claims to be the greatest President ever, except for maybe Lincoln, couldn’t beat that demented guy.

Wonder why that is.

LOL! I guffawed, damn near spilled my drink.

Thanks, @Sue Sponte!

 

[Pyrite]

To see Cadet Bone Spurs come on the stage, kiss the flag in an exaggerated manner, and the MAGA sheep eating it up, freaking hilarious.

I had forgotten about ol' bone spurs dramatic performance (and disrespect for the flag, though I doubt MAGA cult members know or care about that). Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Elmo]

Of course, I'm not willing to modify our broad civil rights policy in order to silence neonazis in the USA.

Why not? As I've explained, over and over, when the STATE gets into the business of curtailing the civil rights of one group, it's far too easy (and likely) that other groups will be similarly targeted.

It's by ensuring the civil rights of the most marginalized, of the most repugnant, that we safeguard the civil rights of all of us.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp and to appreciate. In other words, I'm not willing to jeopardize the civil rights of everyone else (including my own) just because I fear the messages/ideologies of another group. If we can survive only by having the GOVERNMENT's proscribing the rights to assembly and to free speech of those whom we don't like, well, we're not much, are we?

The bolded is an opinion. You are not some genius spreading wisdom that the rest of us lesser thinkers have never considered before. You are just asserting an opinion as fact. Germany has very strict anti-nazi rules, and this has not resulted in the abuse of other groups or the death of free speech there.

I will ask again: what would do to prevent Nazis from gaining power? Hope your neighbors are wise enough to remember history and not repeat it?

 

[Pyrite]

Ok, so you're not willing to make speech laws to curtail the threat I described in my previous post. Do you have a different solution? Because history has shown that social pressure from principled citizens is not always sufficient to stop Nazis from achieving their grand plans. And the consequences of that are dire.

I don't have a solution. I agree that this is a very perilous time, but not just because of Republicans' open embrace of neonazis and neonazi ideology. Trump, GOPer politicos and propagandists, and Republican voters represent an existential threat to our survival.

We have to vote for Democrats. We have to urge our kids and our grandkids, our friends, and everyone else who isn't a MAGA cult member to VOTE. To vote early, perhaps.

 

[Pyrite]

The bolded is an opinion. You are not some genius spreading wisdom that the rest of us lesser thinkers have never considered before. You are just asserting an opinion as fact. Germany has very strict anti-nazi rules, and this has not resulted in the abuse of other groups or the death of free speech there.

I will ask again: what would do to prevent Nazis from gaining power? Hope your neighbors are wise enough to remember history and not repeat it?

The ACLU and others have pointed this out. And it makes sense. Once you do something hitherto unthinkable - such as the State's curtailing rights of a group - it's far too easy to repeat the process. That's human nature.

Perhaps you are willing to take that risk. I'm not. I believe that we either stand on our commitment to civil rights for all - or we go down fighting for, defending, what others before us fought for. To give up isn't something I'm willing to do. It's not a legacy I want for my kids and grandkids.

Incrementally, that's how rights are taken away.

 

[Pyrite]

The bolded is an opinion. You are not some genius spreading wisdom that the rest of us lesser thinkers have never considered before. You are just asserting an opinion as fact. Germany has very strict anti-nazi rules, and this has not resulted in the abuse of other groups or the death of free speech there.

I will ask again: what would do to prevent Nazis from gaining power? Hope your neighbors are wise enough to remember history and not repeat it?

Germany isn't the greatest example, btw.

Hitler started out curtailing the rights of small, marginalized groups such as the disabled. He got the people "used to" the idea of restricting rights for one group, then for another. We know how this ended up.

 

[Divine_Wind]

I had forgotten about ol' bone spurs dramatic performance (and disrespect for the flag, though I doubt MAGA cult members know or care about that). Thanks for the reminder.

They support the draft-dodging, adulterous, oath-breaking traitor. That says a lot about them. Sad.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Germany isn't the greatest example, btw.

Hitler started out curtailing the rights of small, marginalized groups such as the disabled. He got the people "used to" the idea of restricting rights for one group, then for another. We know how this ended up.

Shades of Pastor Martin Niemöller, but I agree. Protecting the rights of all is the best way to protect our own rights.

A difference is that the MAGAts are claiming their rights are being taken and, according to them, they must use violence to get those rights back. What rights are they losing? The "right" to not see gays in a parade. The "right" to not read about the rights of trans people being impugned. The "right" to control women. The "right" of white males to dominate everything just like on "Father Knows Best".

 

[Pyrite]

They support the draft-dodging, adulterous, oath-breaking traitor. That says a lot about them. Sad.

The creep who publicly asked our adversary to hack American computers. The anti-American SOB who publicly sided with putin against our nation's security and intel agencies.

The punk who threatened to sic putin on our NATO allies.

Jeezus christ, that any American can consider reinstating this POS in the Oval Office is mystifying.

 

[Pyrite]

Shades of Pastor Martin Niemöller, but I agree. Protecting the rights of all is the best way to protect our own rights.

Niemoller! That's the guy. Thanks!

A difference is that the MAGAts are claiming their rights are being taken and, according to them, they must use violence to get those rights back. What rights are they losing? The "right" to not see gays in a parade. The "right" to not read about the rights of trans people being impugned. The "right" to control women. The "right" of white males to dominate everything just like on "Father Knows Best".

I hadn't thought of this take on the "rights" MAGA cult members want returned to them. Chilling, isn't it, that so many Americans are so intent on having their own way, even when it means controlling or punishing so many other Americans.

 

[Divine_Wind]

The creep who publicly asked our adversary to hack American computers. The anti-American SOB who publicly sided with putin against our nation's security and intel agencies.

The punk who threatened to sic putin on our NATO allies.

Jeezus christ, that any American can consider reinstating this POS in the Oval Office is mystifying.

Agreed on the unfitness of Trump to lead.

IDK the entire mystery, but do believe that fear is part of it. The poorly educated are highly susceptible to fearmongering and Trump looooves to use fearmongering in his speeches. The cure for fear is education, but that takes years to fix.

 

[Elmo]

I don't have a solution. I agree that this is a very perilous time, but not just because of Republicans' open embrace of neonazis and neonazi ideology. Trump, GOPer politicos and propagandists, and Republican voters represent an existential threat to our survival.

We have to vote for Democrats. We have to urge our kids and our grandkids, our friends, and everyone else who isn't a MAGA cult member to VOTE. To vote early, perhaps.

There were plenty of liberal Germans saying and doing the same thing in the 30s.

The ACLU and others have pointed this out. And it makes sense. Once you do something hitherto unthinkable - such as the State's curtailing rights of a group - it's far too easy to repeat the process. That's human nature.

Perhaps you are willing to take that risk. I'm not. I believe that we either stand on our commitment to civil rights for all or we don't.

Germany isn't the greatest example, btw.

Hitler started out curtailing the rights of small, marginalized groups such as the disabled. He got the people "used to" the idea of restricting rights for one group, then for another. We know how this ended up.

I'm familiar with the argument. I heard it many times before this thread. However, the world is not so binary, and free speech is and always has been limited. It is possible to craft laws which differentiate between genocidal hate groups and the disabled. To use a cliche, think of it like shouting fire in a crowded theater. We restrict this speech because it creates a dangerous situation. People advocating genocide and overthrow of the entire democratic system are dangerous, and taking away their recruitment tools and platforms is justified.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Niemoller! That's the guy. Thanks!

I hadn't thought of this take on the "rights" MAGA cult members want returned to them. Chilling, isn't it, that so many Americans are so intent on having their own way, even when it means controlling or punishing so many other Americans.

It's an excellent quote and the antithesis of Trumpism. They believe rights and freedom are a zero sum game. They believe that, to preserve their rights and freedom, they need to strip others of their rights and freedom.

It's very chilling. The telegraph the idea all the time. Part of this goes back to the education thing. Trump is telling his sheeple what they are losing and how to get it back and the sheeple lap it up.