NATO is Now Dead (1 Viewer)

[Pyrite]

Perceived inability? Russia vs Nato/Eu has been going on for three plus years, and the lines have hardly moved in the last two





Now you are perceiving a future ability

Sure, if putin gains access to Ukraine's resources AND is no longer having to fight Ukrainians in that country.

Similar to Hitler's gaining access to Czechoslovakia's munitions industry when he was given so much of that country.

 

[Juin]

So, you're simply saying something that makes you feel good about this country's appeasing putin.

No surprise. And you're not alone. It seems MAGA as a whole hasn't learned the lesson of last century's appeasement.

You may be overlooking the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact. Was the US supposed to have fought the Warsaw Pact? The Warsaw Pact crushed uprisings in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary? The Cold War amounted to appeasement

 

[Pyrite]

You may be overlooking the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact. Was the US supposed to have fought the Warsaw Pact? The Warsaw Pact crushed uprisings in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary? The Cold War amounted to appeasement

The Warsaw Pact is no longer in effect.

As I've already pointed out, it seems MAGA has failed to assimilate the lesson of last century's appeasement of an aggressor.

 

[Tigerace117]

Sure, if putin gains access to Ukraine's resources AND is no longer having to fight Ukrainians in that country.

Similar to Hitler's gaining access to Czechoslovakia's munitions industry when he was given so much of that country.

Except Hitler didn’t have to fight for Czechslovakia, because the Soviets were the only ones willing to fight alongside them, and Poland and Romania—with Western urging— made sure they couldn’t actually help Prague.

 

[Juin]

The Warsaw Pact is no longer in effect.

As I've already pointed out, it seems MAGA has failed to assimilate the lesson of last century's appeasement of an aggressor.

You are picking and chosing your examples. The Cold War was one decades long appeasement. Did you want a nuclear exchange between Nato and the Warsaw Pact? More to the present, what do you want Nato to do about Russian nukes?

 

[Tigerace117]

The Warsaw Pact is no longer in effect.

As I've already pointed out, it seems MAGA has failed to assimilate the lesson of last century's appeasement of an aggressor.

Last century saw the West practically bend over backwards to support fascism in the name of fighting Russia.

It has indeed failed to assimilate that lesson.

 

[Oozlefinch]

they should have been putting troops on Ukraine and shipping arms.

They did ship arms, a hell of a lot of arms. As in over $120 billion worth (over $66 billion from the US alone).

And why in the hell should anybody send troops into a nation they do not have a mutual defense treaty with?

 

[Pyrite]

Except Hitler didn’t have to fight for Czechslovakia, because the Soviets were the only ones willing to fight alongside them, and Poland and Romania—with Western urging— made sure they couldn’t actually help Prague.

Post #79

No, that's not why Hitler didn't have to go to "fight" to gain control of Czechoslovakia.

First of all, Poland and Romania and the Soviet Union were not fighting anywhere, because WWII hadn't begun yet.

Secondly, most of Czechoslovakia was "given" to Germany under the terms of the Munich Agreement. Six months later, Hitler's army marched into the "rump" that was left of Czechoslovakia and took that over, too.

FYI: Germany's invasion of Poland in the wee hours of September 1, 1939 is the official start of what would become known as World War II.

 

[Oozlefinch]

The Warsaw Pact is no longer in effect.

Yes, dead and gone for over three decades now.

Now it's the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). The modern replacement of the Warsaw Pact. With once again Russia claiming it will protect the other members from the aggression of other nations.

But too bad, since it was formed in 1993, no other members have actually joined other than the initial 9. All of which were members of the Warsaw Pact before that. And of those 9, only 6 are left. Two of the members left after they were invaded and had territory annexed by Russia, the other left after it complained that Russia was attacking and stealing land from nations that were supposed to be their ally.

I guess Russia kinda forgot that the CSTO is not the Warsaw Pact. And they simply can not attack them at will and expect that there will be nothing done about it.

 

[Oozlefinch]

First of all, Poland and Romania and the Soviet Union were not fighting anywhere, because WWII hadn't begun yet.

Oh, WWII had begun years earlier. It simply was not recognized as such until Germany got in on the fun.

 

[Surrealistik]

NATO is Now Dead:

Read this scathing report about the NATO alliance.

MSN

"NATO’s death was not caused by Donald Trump, though he may soon become its undertaker."

"Nor was it caused by Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, though that war has exposed the Alliance’s hollowness in ways no war game or communique ever could. The real cause lies in decades of European free-riding, American strategic drift, and a foundational lie at the heart of the Alliance: the idea that an empire can masquerade as a collective defense pact without consequences."

More of the usual scree on the subject from Andrew Latham who has been a tireless borderline apologist and minimizer if not cheerleader for Russia, and detractor of Ukraine; a quick Google search will reveal just how profound this man's bias is.

 

[Tigerace117]

Post #79

No, that's not why Hitler didn't have to go to "fight" to gain control of Czechoslovakia.

First of all, Poland and Romania and the Soviet Union were not fighting anywhere, because WWII hadn't begun yet.

Secondly, most of Czechoslovakia was "given" to Germany under the terms of the Munich Agreement. Six months later, Hitler's army marched into the "rump" that was left of Czechoslovakia and took that over, too.

FYI: Germany's invasion of Poland in the wee hours of September 1, 1939 is the official start of what would become known as World War II.

Except for the inconvenient fact that the the Soviets had pledged assistance for the Czechoslovaks during the crisis, only for the Poles to refuse, as the military junta running Poland desperately wanted to annex the Teschen region.

Poland, in fact, was willing to fully back Nazi Germany to the hilt if the West went to war with the Nazis over Czechoslovakia.

“Łukasiewicz also told Bonnet that Poland would oppose any attempt by Soviet forces to defend Czechoslovakia from Germany. Édouard Daladier told Jakob Suritz, the Soviet ambassador to France, "Not only can we not count on Polish support but we have no faith that Poland will not strike us in the back."[25] “

“The Soviets, who had a mutual military assistance treaty with Czechoslovakia, felt betrayed by France, which also had a mutual military assistance treaty with Czechoslovakia.[88] The British and French mostly used the Soviets as a threat to dangle over the Germans. Stalin concluded that the West had colluded with Hitler to hand over a country in Central Europe to the Germans, causing concern that they might do the same to the Soviet Union in the future to allow its partition between the western nations. This belief led the Soviet Union to reorient its foreign policy towards a rapprochement with Germany, which eventually led to the signing of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in 1939.[89]”

Munich Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tigerace117]

More of the usual scree on the subject from Andrew Latham who has been a tireless borderline apologist and minimizer if not cheerleader for Russia, and detractor of Ukraine; a quick Google search will reveal just how profound this man's bias is.

According to America Canada, like Greenland, should submit to annexation in order to “fight Russia” or whatever.

 

[Surrealistik]

According to America Canada, like Greenland, should submit to annexation in order to “fight Russia” or whatever.

I don't take whatever the idiot in chief says on the matter seriously. The moral high ground in the case of UKR vs Russia is painfully clear cut; doubly so if NATO is in fact a paper tiger and an unserious threat as Russian cheerleaders seem to believe at the same time they decry it as a grave threat that forced Russia's hand... into making it even stronger.

 

[Tigerace117]

I don't take whatever the idiot in chief says on the matter seriously. The moral high ground in the case of UKR vs Russia is painfully clear cut; doubly so if NATO is in fact a paper tiger and an unserious threat as Russian cheerleaders seem to believe at the same time they decry it as a grave threat that forced Russia's hand... into making it even stronger.

The US’ idea of “moral high ground” is utterly laughable at the best of times, and the pretense it wouldn’t attack if the president said so even more so.

Spiro Agnew, after all, was one heart beat away from the presidency.

 

[Surrealistik]

The US’ idea of “moral high ground” is utterly laughable at the best of times, and the pretense it wouldn’t attack if the president said so even more so.

Spiro Agnew, after all, was one heart beat away from the presidency.

I frankly don't care what the American idea of the 'moral high ground' is.

What is objectively true is that Russia unduly and lawlessly attacked and invaded a sovereign country, and no amount of American wrongdoing in the past justifies that.

 

[Exquisitor]

They did ship arms, a hell of a lot of arms. As in over $120 billion worth (over $66 billion from the US alone).

And why in the hell should anybody send troops into a nation they do not have a mutual defense treaty with?

To preserve their architecture?

 

[Tigerace117]

I frankly don't care what the American idea of the 'moral high ground' is.

What is objectively true is that Russia unduly attacked and invaded a sovereign country, and no amount of American wrongdoing in the past justifies that.

Unfortunately for you. the US doesn’t give a shit what it’s supposed allies think.

What’s objectively true is that the counties having the biggest fits over Russia, like Poland, ****ing melt down in endless hysterics over refugees fleeing literal war zones, so their opinion is worthless at best.

And the US’? Even more so.

Meanwhile Western Europe hews and haws and waffles over whether throwing Canada to the wolves would actually matter because they really don’t want to put in the work of going their own way

 

[Surrealistik]

Unfortunately for you. the US doesn’t give a shit what it’s supposed allies think.

What’s objectively true is that the counties having the biggest fits over Russia, like Poland, ****ing melt down in endless hysterics over refugees fleeing literal war zones, so their opinion is worthless at best.

And the US’? Even more so.

Meanwhile Western Europe hews and haws and waffles over whether throwing Canada to the wolves would actually matter because they really don’t want to put in the work of going their own way

I also don't care about your deflections either.

Russia is simply in the wrong here, as are those cheerleading it, and nothing of what you say will change that.

In the meanwhile, I am happy to watch it dash its own economy and military to pieces and suffer the consequences of its own actions and belligerence.

 

[Tigerace117]

I also don't care about your deflections either.

Russia is simply in the wrong here, as are those cheerleading it, and nothing of what you say will change that.

In the meanwhile, I am happy to watch it dash its economy to pieces and suffer the consequences of its own actions and belligerence.

Yeah, according to the same people screeching about Russia “being in the wrong” Canada should be annexed to the US. Not a single NATO country has actually broken with America over said demands, which speaks volumes.

Nothing you can say can change that.

Yeah, I’ve heard that exact line for over three years now. Meanwhile Ukraine is suffering defeat over defeat on the actual battlefield.

 

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, according to the same people screeching about Russia “being in the wrong” Canada should be annexed to the US. Nothing you can say can change that.

As mentioned, I don't care about the deeply unserious things Trump and his most unhinged supporters say.

Yeah, I’ve heard that exact line for over three years now. Meanwhile Ukraine is suffering defeat over defeat on the actual battlefield.

For Russia, the recent record has been rather mixed at best, and its losses remain as disproportionate as ever. What is abundantly clear though, is that its economy is in dire straits by the admission of its own central bank; may those troubles continue and intensify until it ceases its criminal and indefensible belligerence.

 

[BabaVoss]

Russia is not going to dominate Europe - that's nonsense.

Uh huh.

Many NATO European member States were deadbeats, and not paying their fair share. Trump had to fly over there to boot them in the a$$ to get them to meet their GDP quotas.

I'm sorry, but what?

Anyways, the U.S. needs to stay out of foreign affairs - this was made very clear by the American Founding Fathers:

Not sure I buy that. But we don't. seem to care much about what the founding fathers said these days anyway...

 

[Tigerace117]

As mentioned, I don't care about the deeply unserious things Trump and his most unhinged supporters say.

For Russia, the recent record has been rather mixed at best, and its losses remain as disproportionate as ever. What is abundantly clear though, is that its economy is in dire straits by the admission of its own central bank; may those troubles continue and intensify until it ceases its criminal and indefensible belligerence.

Something being “unserious” has never, ever stopped the U.S. from doing it.

Yeah, if that were true there wouldn’t be ridiculous claims about Russia having lost “over a million dead” or whatever being presented here.

We’ve heard those exact claims presented for over three years now. It hasn’t stopped the Russians from repeatedly winning battle after battle.

 

[craig]

Good! R.I.P.

NATO should have been disbanded in 1991, when the Soviet Union was disbanded. Once the Soviet Union dissolved, there was no longer any need for NATO.

Europe can form a new military coalition if they want, but the U.S. should stay out of that coalition.

What does Ukraine say about that? Russia should have been dissolved. Russia is the ghost of the Soviet Union and still killing people for no reason at all.

 

[Tigerace117]

What does Ukraine say about that? Russia should have been dissolved. Russia is the ghost of the Soviet Union and still killing people for no reason at all.

The U.S. lacked the power to “dissolve Russia” at any point.

The U.S. invaded Iraq, leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths, based on a blatant lie, for which nobody was ever punished.

Clearly America should be dissolved before anyone worries about other countries doing so.