• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

My Thoughts on Blacks Stopped More Often

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I responded thus to a member who seemed to think racism was a major factor in this issue of blacks being stopped by police.

The issue really does merit serious discussion because I think it is SO misunderstood.

I find it astounding, sir.....that you immediately see this as racism. Absolutely.........Astounding.

And wrong. Totally wrong.

It is......instead......merely mining the mother lode instead of wasting time with the weak veins of ore that are those boring white people.

Police stop young black men because they are a rich source of arrests. They are usually on their way to or on their way back from an assortment of potential criminal acts.

Think about it. Police would not DO THIS if it didn't produce. If these young black men were not so often criminals they would be ignored like the boring white people.....and the cop would be having more donuts.

And they are not stopping black grandmas and grandpas or soccer moms, are they?

No......they're primarily stopping young black men......and mostly the ones wearing the obvious and currently popular provocative styles of dressing themselves.

It's NOT color profiling......it's legitimate criminal profiling--the same kind the Israelis use in their airports so successfully.

And, let me tell you......I say, THANK YOU, Police!!!

Hit that mother lode!!!

Mine that rich vein and process it and store the gold away where it BELONGS!!!

I APPROVE. I want a life free of drug-addled thugs sticking Glocks in my face.

While it is true that there may be a few nasty racist cops out there stopping anything with a black or brown face.......they are indeed few......and they should be weeded out and eliminated.

This is not about race, it's about public safety.......public safety for ALL.......not just white people.
 

reinoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
16,825
Reaction score
7,183
Location
Out West
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
No......they're primarily stopping young black men......and mostly the ones wearing the obvious and currently popular provocative styles of dressing themselves.
And what would you say to those who blame women for dressing provocatively if a woman gets raped?
I APPROVE.
Oh, ok. Thanks for letting us know how you feel about victim blaming.
 

Tanngrisnir

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2016
Messages
34,150
Reaction score
15,598
Location
No longer Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I responded thus to a member who seemed to think racism was a major factor in this issue of blacks being stopped by police.

The issue really does merit serious discussion because I think it is SO misunderstood.

I find it astounding, sir.....that you immediately see this as racism. Absolutely.........Astounding.

And wrong. Totally wrong.

It is......instead......merely mining the mother lode instead of wasting time with the weak veins of ore that are those boring white people.

Police stop young black men because they are a rich source of arrests. They are usually on their way to or on their way back from an assortment of potential criminal acts.

Pretty much sums up the entirety of your knowledge of law enforcement: zero.
 

MaggieD

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,663
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I responded thus to a member who seemed to think racism was a major factor in this issue of blacks being stopped by police.

The issue really does merit serious discussion because I think it is SO misunderstood.

I find it astounding, sir.....that you immediately see this as racism. Absolutely.........Astounding.

And wrong. Totally wrong.

It is......instead......merely mining the mother lode instead of wasting time with the weak veins of ore that are those boring white people.

Police stop young black men because they are a rich source of arrests. They are usually on their way to or on their way back from an assortment of potential criminal acts.

Think about it. Police would not DO THIS if it didn't produce. If these young black men were not so often criminals they would be ignored like the boring white people.....and the cop would be having more donuts.

And they are not stopping black grandmas and grandpas or soccer moms, are they?

No......they're primarily stopping young black men......and mostly the ones wearing the obvious and currently popular provocative styles of dressing themselves.

It's NOT color profiling......it's legitimate criminal profiling--the same kind the Israelis use in their airports so successfully.

And, let me tell you......I say, THANK YOU, Police!!!

Hit that mother lode!!!

Mine that rich vein and process it and store the gold away where it BELONGS!!!

I APPROVE. I want a life free of drug-addled thugs sticking Glocks in my face.

While it is true that there may be a few nasty racist cops out there stopping anything with a black or brown face.......they are indeed few......and they should be weeded out and eliminated.

This is not about race, it's about public safety.......public safety for ALL.......not just white people.

Cops aren't supposed to stop cars based on their likelihood to be doing something illegal. They are supposed to stop cars because they are doing something wrong right then. Illegal turn, speeding, broken tail light, etc.

Stop away, I say. And if they're driving without a license, DUI or driving without insurance? Impound their car and put them in jail.

Oh! And I don't care WHAT color they are.
 

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
37,495
Reaction score
43,179
Location
Houston Area, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Cops aren't supposed to stop cars based on their likelihood to be doing something illegal. They are supposed to stop cars because they are doing something wrong right then. Illegal turn, speeding, broken tail light, etc.

Stop away, I say. And if they're driving without a license, DUI or driving without insurance? Impound their car and put them in jail.

Oh! And I don't care WHAT color they are.

Or at least officers can stop cars if they have reasonable suspicion to do so.
 

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
And what would you say to those who blame women for dressing provocatively if a woman gets raped?

They're wrong.

But those women are not criminals and rape is not a mechanism to punish them.

Your comparison is invalid.
 

Tonawanda

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
782
Reaction score
225
Location
Buffalo NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I am in agreement with some of your position.

Prejudice is a factor on both sides of this issue, but no one knows the actual percentage. Those who work in the law enforcement field have a good idea of that percentage as a result of their experiences with fellow officers and the young black men you are referring to.

Your position and conclusion is basically based on the color, age and criminal history of some young black men. If officers use this profile as justification for stopping these individuals, I would consider it biased, inappropriate, and illegal. In my opinion, it would justify the prejudice against police by some in the black community.

There are many other factors that go into good police work that result in probable cause to prevent crime and make good arrests. Most officers consider those factors before making a stop.
 

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
What IS good police work? Stop and Frisk takes criminals and guns off the street--and does it well.

"A Justified Stop

A stop is justified if the suspect is exhibiting any combination of the following behaviors:

Appears not to fit the time or place.
Matches the description on a "Wanted" flyer.
Acts strangely, or is emotional, angry, fearful, or intoxicated.
Loitering, or looking for something.
Running away or engaging in furtive movements.
Present in a crime scene area.
Present in a high-crime area (not sufficient by itself or with loitering)."

"What is a Justified Frisk?

A frisk is a type of search that requires a lawful stop. It involves contact or patting of the person's outer clothing to detect if a concealed weapon is being carried. The frisk doesn't necessarily always follow a stop. The law of frisk is based on the "experienced police officer" standard whereby an officer's experience makes him more equipped to read into criminal behavior than the average layperson.

The purpose of a frisk is to dispel suspicions of danger to the officer and other persons. The frisk should only be used to detect concealed weapons or contraband. If other evidence, such as a suspected drug container, can be felt under the suspect's clothing, it can be seized by the officer. This is called the "plain feel" doctrine. To pass the plain feel test, the item must have an immediately apparent character or quality of being contraband or evidence."

"A frisk is justified under the following circumstances:

Concern for the safety of the officer or of others.
Suspicion the suspect is armed and dangerous.
Suspicion the suspect is about to commit a crime where a weapon is commonly used.
Officer is alone and backup has not arrived.
Number of suspects and their physical size.
Behavior, emotional state, and/or look of suspects.
Suspect gave evasive answers during the initial stop.
Time of day and/or geographical surroundings (not sufficient by themselves to justify frisk)."

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/when-can-the-police-stop-and-frisk-you-on-the-street
 

clownboy

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
10,860
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Cops aren't supposed to stop cars based on their likelihood to be doing something illegal. They are supposed to stop cars because they are doing something wrong right then. Illegal turn, speeding, broken tail light, etc.

Stop away, I say. And if they're driving without a license, DUI or driving without insurance? Impound their car and put them in jail.

Oh! And I don't care WHAT color they are.

Well, I do remember being a young man with very long hair at the beginning of the hippie movement. Anyone with long hair got pulled over a lot. I mean a lot.
 

Tonawanda

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
782
Reaction score
225
Location
Buffalo NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
What IS good police work? Stop and Frisk takes criminals and guns off the street--and does it well.

"A Justified Stop

A stop is justified if the suspect is exhibiting any combination of the following behaviors:

Appears not to fit the time or place.
Matches the description on a "Wanted" flyer.
Acts strangely, or is emotional, angry, fearful, or intoxicated.
Loitering, or looking for something.
Running away or engaging in furtive movements.
Present in a crime scene area.
Present in a high-crime area (not sufficient by itself or with loitering)."

"What is a Justified Frisk?

A frisk is a type of search that requires a lawful stop. It involves contact or patting of the person's outer clothing to detect if a concealed weapon is being carried. The frisk doesn't necessarily always follow a stop. The law of frisk is based on the "experienced police officer" standard whereby an officer's experience makes him more equipped to read into criminal behavior than the average layperson.

The purpose of a frisk is to dispel suspicions of danger to the officer and other persons. The frisk should only be used to detect concealed weapons or contraband. If other evidence, such as a suspected drug container, can be felt under the suspect's clothing, it can be seized by the officer. This is called the "plain feel" doctrine. To pass the plain feel test, the item must have an immediately apparent character or quality of being contraband or evidence."

These are some of the factors I was referring to that good police officers use to determine if a stop is appropriate and legal.

Stop and Frisk without probable cause is illegal.

High crime areas require additional manpower and enforcement which should result more arrests and crime reduction.

In any case, stopping young black (or white) men wearing clothes that you consider provacative is illegal.
 

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Stop and Frisk without probable cause is illegal.
In any case, stopping young black (or white) men wearing clothes that you consider provacative is illegal.

Not if they have even one of the many other criteria listed above.
 

Vox

Voice and Wisdom of God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
6,765
Reaction score
954
Location
Land of Logic
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Let's review:

Concern for the safety of the officer or of others.
Suspicion the suspect is armed and dangerous.
Suspicion the suspect is about to commit a crime where a weapon is commonly used.
Officer is alone and backup has not arrived.
Number of suspects and their physical size.
Behavior, emotional state, and/or look of suspects.
Suspect gave evasive answers during the initial stop.

Appears not to fit the time or place.
Matches the description on a "Wanted" flyer.
Acts strangely, or is emotional, angry, fearful, or intoxicated.
Loitering, or looking for something.
Running away or engaging in furtive movements.
Present in a crime scene area.
Present in a high-crime area (not sufficient by itself or with loitering)."
 
Top Bottom