Ms. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the gift that keeps on giving.

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Nazis (real ones) no longer exist, but neo-nazis and supremacists were in attendance, along with people who were not associated with either group, but rather went to protest the tearing down of statues.

The point went way over your head. If the, as you put it, neo-Nazis are left wing, why did they attend the rally?

I love how there's this new theme on the Right about how "Real Nazis no longer exist".
When Christ was crucified, did that end his church? By Howard's metric, "Real Christians no longer exist" either because their leader was killed.

 

[Fiddytree]

I think she should win in November and then be ignored by Democrats come February if she doesn't shape up. She's too green.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Actually, I do have a problem with our military spending but 70 billion isn't going to solve the issue with college tuition. That's more of that fantasy math that ya'll like to use. But keep pushing for those over-priced college degrees in subjects that have no viable jobs once they graduate. That's totally going to get the economy moving along.

You know, anti-intellectualism isn't something new.
There are a lot of you out there, to be honest.
Do you also have admiration for Pol Pot, who ultimately began executing people who wore glasses?

The world does need a lot more plumbers, mechanics, electricians and skilled workers in other trades but in the near future, a lot of human labor will be taken over by automation, and in order to get a decent paying job in that economy, you're going to need a college degree in computer science, programming, artificial intelligence or robotics.

And all kinds of colleges offer curriculae in those fields, not just fancy over-priced ones. State universities offer degrees in those fields, and some community colleges also offer a path to degrees in those fields as well.
And it would behoove us to invest in that future, if we want to have a future.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I think she should win in November and then be ignored by Democrats come February if she doesn't shape up. She's too green.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

The more I read about her, the more I'm convinced that she's not stupid, just underinformed and misinformed.
There's a possibility that can be dealt with.

A little side note:
I'm familiar with the growing popular lefty theme about "abolishing ICE", and to be honest, I think it's an absurd idea.
Abolishing the current ICE infrastructure which is connected to a large network of privately owned detention centers and prisons is absolutely a great idea, but in the end we still need an "immigration and customs enforcement agency" that can do the job that needs to be done.

The ultra-left idea about "open borders" is just that, an ultra-left idea, and as such, it is entirely unworkable and also unlikely to ever gain traction, even in a liberal government with a liberal Congress. We're a country, a nation, and nations have societies, and those societies are what they are because they believe in societal values, which are ultimately protected in many ways by borders.
Embracing a kind of geopolitical anarchy is basically an embrace of anarchy swallowed whole, also an absurd idea.
Borders serve a purpose and as such, must be secured.

That said, immigration and asylum ARE indeed valid issues, and a strong society can accept immigrants and refugees, provided that they are also able to MOLD them into MEMBERS of society. Refusing that mandate is absurd, because a society consists of people who share some common values. Remove those common values and you no longer have a society, you have a mob.

Is that "conservative" enough for you?

 

[Fiddytree]

OC is the perfect representative of the millennial generation; college educated in major(s) that seemingly taught her nothing except cliché's and ideological narratives. Unlike previous generations (say the 60s) the millennial activist knows nothing but paper thin talking points - the college grad in international relations and economics apparently is utterly clueless on facts, but sure of her gut feelings.

I'm sorry, but this narrative is utter bs. The boomer generation going to college and university in the 1960s and 1970s epitomized paper thin, ideologically-driven talking points. Even at its most hysterical there is little separating the boomers from the millenials and post-millenials. In some ways American students, even in the 2010s, are far more demanding in intellectual rigor than the Ivy Leaguers of the 1960s who were wanting to create experimental programs that had little by way of structure, academic learning, or practical application. Those programs were played with all over the country, even in rural colleges and universities. They all failed and are largely forgotten, of course.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[Fiddytree]

The more I read about her, the more I'm convinced that she's not stupid, just underinformed and misinformed.
There's a possibility that can be dealt with.

A little side note:
I'm familiar with the growing popular lefty theme about "abolishing ICE", and to be honest, I think it's an absurd idea.
Abolishing the current ICE infrastructure which is connected to a large network of privately owned detention centers and prisons is absolutely a great idea, but in the end we still need an "immigration and customs enforcement agency" that can do the job that needs to be done.

The ultra-left idea about "open borders" is just that, an ultra-left idea, and as such, it is entirely unworkable and also unlikely to ever gain traction, even in a liberal government with a liberal Congress. We're a country, a nation, and nations have societies, and those societies are what they are because they believe in societal values, which are ultimately protected in many ways by borders.
Embracing a kind of geopolitical anarchy is basically an embrace of anarchy swallowed whole, also an absurd idea.
Borders serve a purpose and as such, must be secured.

That said, immigration and asylum ARE indeed valid issues, and a strong society can accept immigrants and refugees, provided that they are also able to MOLD them into MEMBERS of society. Refusing that mandate is absurd, because a society consists of people who share some common values. Remove those common values and you no longer have a society, you have a mob.

Is that "conservative" enough for you?

I don't think I found anything I disagreed with in the above.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I don't think I found anything I disagreed with in the above.

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The problem is that the current system is part cash cow, (privately owned detention centers) part whore to Big Ag and part schizophrenic.
Our immigration system is as fickle and mercurial as the winds in a micro-burst thunderstorm cell.

In the 1940's we sent buses down into Mexico to scoop up and recruit braceros to help pick crops, by the 1950's these same braceros were being scooped BACK up in "Operation Wetback" and unceremoniously dumped in the middle of the Mexican desert by the hundreds of thousands, without food, water or a way back. Many died.
By the 1960's Big Ag was back in the game and the migrant farmworker issue was back in the headlines again, with Steve Allen (yes...THAT Steve Allen) writing a book called "The Ground Is Our Table", which was an expose of the back channel migrant farm worker pipeline that swept the country.

Add in changing quotas, outrageous processing fees and wait times that can stretch to a decade unless you're a member of the Mexican "one percent" and you get the picture. No wonder people South of the border think our system is a joke.

And now this administration has pretty much decided that there's really no such thing as "asylum". Everyone coming across, even asylum seekers, are breaking the law.

 

[HowardBThiname]

I love how there's this new theme on the Right about how "Real Nazis no longer exist".
When Christ was crucified, did that end his church? By Howard's metric, "Real Christians no longer exist" either because their leader was killed.

You're asking the wrong person. While I suppose there can be "real Christians" (the ones who follow the cult), I sincerely doubt there was every any real Christ.

That was a very bad analogy. Just because we have some freaks that dress up with swastikas and salute with straight arms does not mean they are Nazis. They are wannabe Nazis. Nothing more. Most people call them "neos." But, until they gain control of a nation, begin invading other countries, and begin systematically killing those of other races -- they won't be Nazis.

Do you also think that little children who play Cowboys and Indians are really Cowboys and Indians? :roll:

 

[Fishking]

You know, anti-intellectualism isn't something new.
There are a lot of you out there, to be honest.
Do you also have admiration for Pol Pot, who ultimately began executing people who wore glasses?

This comment shows you have absolutely no standing to speak about anti-intellectualism, because it's ****ing stupid. Btw...Pol Pot was a lefty who did what he did to bring about the radical and murderous ideology of equity. Can't have smart people being all successful and also have equity.

The world does need a lot more plumbers, mechanics, electricians and skilled workers in other trades but in the near future, a lot of human labor will be taken over by automation, and in order to get a decent paying job in that economy, you're going to need a college degree in computer science, programming, artificial intelligence or robotics.

Sure...some of those college are worth something but they are all over-priced, as in their costs are orders out-pacing the rate of inflation. Some of them are complete garbage and aren't worth the paper they are printed on (i.e. significant portions of the humanities dept). Btw...plumbers are not going to be automated, neither are mechanics, electricians, or pretty much any other skilled labor job. They also have the benefit of being much more useful.

[quote\And all kinds of colleges offer curriculae in those fields, not just fancy over-priced ones. State universities offer degrees in those fields, and some community colleges also offer a path to degrees in those fields as well.
And it would behoove us to invest in that future, if we want to have a future.[/QUOTE]

Community colleges have their benefit and so do state schools. Many of them still suffer from many of the same things, like the scam that is the college book industry. Many of the greatest innovators of our time didn't have college educations. It's not the only route to take and if it's something that's not working (see over trillion dollar college tuition bubble that's going to wreck **** bad when it pops) then try something else. There are many ways to improve oneself.

 

[D_NATURED]

Also, International Relations is an extremely appropriate degree for a politician. I'm not sure what you were thinking would be more relevant to the job.

Clearly, Russian is the only course of study the right-wing finds relevant.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This comment shows you have absolutely no standing to speak about anti-intellectualism, because it's ****ing stupid. Btw...Pol Pot was a lefty who did what he did to bring about the radical and murderous ideology of equity. Can't have smart people being all successful and also have equity.

Then stop making wholesale broad sweeping generalizations about higher education. Then I won't feel compelled to bring up Pol Pot, or any other anti-intellectual, left or right.

Sure...some of those college are worth something

Stop. Just stop right there. Some colleges are worth something. If they're worth something, then they're not overpriced, they're "worth something".

But no-o-o-o-o-ooo, you had to "go there", dintcha?

but they are all over-priced, as in their costs are orders out-pacing the rate of inflation. Some of them are complete garbage and aren't worth the paper they are printed on (i.e. significant portions of the humanities dept).

If you're not contradicting yourself in the same paragraph, then you're such a purist that you insist on impossible standards, and if it's not that, then you are going to have to OWN that you don't believe in college in general.
Which is it?

Btw...plumbers are not going to be automated, neither are mechanics, electricians, or pretty much any other skilled labor job. They also have the benefit of being much more useful.

Like it or not, we cannot all be plumbers, mechanics, electricians and skilled labor, just like we can't all be CEO's, day traders or brokers who sell insurance to each other all day long.

And all kinds of colleges offer curriculae in those fields, not just fancy over-priced ones. State universities offer degrees in those fields, and some community colleges also offer a path to degrees in those fields as well.
And it would behoove us to invest in that future, if we want to have a future.

Community colleges have their benefit and so do state schools. Many of them still suffer from many of the same things, like the scam that is the college book industry.

Here we go again, you just contradicted yourself, this time IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

Many of the greatest innovators of our time didn't have college educations.

No.
A handful didn't have college educations, and most of that handful were in the early and mid twentieth century.
This is 2018.

It's not the only route to take and if it's something that's not working (see over trillion dollar college tuition bubble that's going to wreck **** bad when it pops) then try something else. There are many ways to improve oneself.

Let me know when you're ready to accept THE POSSIBILITY that we may have an increased need for affordable higher education in the 21st century. If you are wholly unable to accept that, then you and I have nothing more we can talk about.

 

[D_NATURED]

You're asking the wrong person. While I suppose there can be "real Christians" (the ones who follow the cult), I sincerely doubt there was every any real Christ.

That was a very bad analogy. Just because we have some freaks that dress up with swastikas and salute with straight arms does not mean they are Nazis. They are wannabe Nazis. Nothing more. Most people call them "neos." But, until they gain control of a nation, begin invading other countries, and begin systematically killing those of other races -- they won't be Nazis.

Do you also think that little children who play Cowboys and Indians are really Cowboys and Indians? :roll:

If it quacks, it's a duck. If it's dumb enough to emulate history's worst humans, they can't be surprised when we kill them too. NAZIs and Klansmen don't get to dress the part, speak the part and act surprised when the rest of us treat them like our grandparents did (The Bush family excepted).

 

[Fishking]

Then stop making wholesale broad sweeping generalizations about higher education. Then I won't feel compelled to bring up Pol Pot, or any other anti-intellectual, left or right.

You can feel compelled to bring up Pol Pot as much as you want. You'll just remain sounding stupid every time you do it.

Stop. Just stop right there. Some colleges are worth something. If they're worth something, then they're not overpriced, they're "worth something".

But no-o-o-o-o-ooo, you had to "go there", dintcha?

If you're not contradicting yourself in the same paragraph, then you're such a purist that you insist on impossible standards, and if it's not that, then you are going to have to OWN that you don't believe in college in general.
Which is it?

Rofl...there is no contradiction there. That's hilarious. You understand that something can both have value and also be over-priced, right? They are not mutually exclusive. A Honda Civic has value. A Honda Civic being sold for $250K would be over-priced.

Like it or not, we cannot all be plumbers, mechanics, electricians and skilled labor, just like we can't all be CEO's, day traders or brokers who sell insurance to each other all day long.

Sure, sure...but we have critical shortages in many skilled labor fields so there is plenty of room to grow there, vice someone with an art degree.

Here we go again, you just contradicted yourself, this time IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

No, not a contradiction here, either. I apologize if you're reading words you don't understand.

No.
A handful didn't have college educations, and most of that handful were in the early and mid twentieth century.
This is 2018.

Perhaps the 3 biggest innovators of our time all dropped out of college (i.e. Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg).

Let me know when you're ready to accept THE POSSIBILITY that we may have an increased need for affordable higher education in the 21st century. If you are wholly unable to accept that, then you and I have nothing more we can talk about.

"Affordable" being the key word here. Further, you also have to have the jobs present to fit with the degrees, so they need to be somewhat useful. But sure...let's keep growing that trillion dollar bubble. That's totally not going to make the housing bubble look like a walk in the park :roll:

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert

Rofl...there is no contradiction there. That's hilarious. You understand that something can both have value and also be over-priced, right? They are not mutually exclusive. A Honda Civic has value. A Honda Civic being sold for $250K would be over-priced.

Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert

Even some medical degrees don't cost that much...some do.
A degree in computer sciences, robotics, or AI doesn't, unless you're talking Harvard or Yale...maybe

Sure, sure...but we have critical shortages in many skilled labor fields so there is plenty of room to grow there, vice someone with an art degree.

Willful false exaggeration - I mentioned computer sciences, AI and robotics and you're bound and determined to force the debate back to art degrees. Slippery slope argument fail.

Perhaps the 3 biggest innovators of our time all dropped out of college (i.e. Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg).

Zuck got all the education he needed before he dropped out, thus he might not have gotten a degree per se but he DID get some college education and I daresay the other two, SAME THING, and I also wager that all three either have been offered or have received HONORARY degrees.
Elon Musk received an economics degree from the Wharton School and and a degree in physics from the College of Arts and Sciences.(U of PA) and was prepared to pursue a Ph.D. before deciding to just go with building his own business instead.

So, there's a fourth who DID get college degrees, and the other two were worthy of them before finishing, so it doesn't support your argument that college isn't necessary, which IS what you're discreetly attempting to suggest...in the year 2018, with China and India breathing down our necks.

"Affordable" being the key word here. Further, you also have to have the jobs present to fit with the degrees, so they need to be somewhat useful. But sure...let's keep growing that trillion dollar bubble. That's totally not going to make the housing bubble look like a walk in the park :roll:

If you think education is expensive, wait till you get a load of what generational ignorance costs.
We're DONE, you won't even own up to your belief that college is a lot of hooey, which is what your main argument really is.
SO LIKE I SAID, let me know when you're willing to own that, because that is what you're really saying.

 

[veritas1]

I'm not going to take time to google that for you so you can immediately dismiss it.



The right can not talk about politicians on the left without reaching for hyperbole and exaggerations.

Right, because no hyperbole and exaggeration has been uttered about Trump.:lamo C'mon man, this girl is a halfwit.

 

[maxparrish]

Right, because no hyperbole and exaggeration has been uttered about Trump.:lamo C'mon man, this girl is a halfwit.

I dunno, your fraction seems a bit high.

 

[Fishking]

Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert

Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert* Hyperbole Alert

Even some medical degrees don't cost that much...some do.
A degree in computer sciences, robotics, or AI doesn't, unless you're talking Harvard or Yale...maybe

I wasn't making any kind of direct cost comparison. You're failing superbly at understanding basic points, and you want to talk about "anti-intellectualism". This isn't complicated.

Willful false exaggeration - I mentioned computer sciences, AI and robotics and you're bound and determined to force the debate back to art degrees. Slippery slope argument fail.

There wasn't a bit of an exaggeration in that statement, not one. Also, I'm super happy and proud you mentioned computer sciences and robotics but, guess what? There are a lot of degrees out there that don't fall into more useful fields like those ones. Further, there are tons of self-educated computer programmers and hackers out there, so it's not like going to an over-priced college is necessary.

Zuck got all the education he needed before he dropped out, thus he might not have gotten a degree per se but he DID get some college education and I daresay the other two, SAME THING, and I also wager that all three either have been offered or have received HONORARY degrees.

"Honorary degrees"? Really? That's what you're going with? Yeah, that's a winning point.

Elon Musk received an economics degree from the Wharton School and and a degree in physics from the College of Arts and Sciences.(U of PA) and was prepared to pursue a Ph.D. before deciding to just go with building his own business instead.

Musk is standing on the shoulders of Jobs and Gates, who brought computers into the mainstream. But hey...I'll be generous and give you 1/4

If you think education is expensive, wait till you get a load of what generational ignorance costs.

Not having a college education doesn't mean you're ignorant. It could mean that you don't need to have information spoon-fed to you like some kind of lapdog.

We're DONE, you won't even own up to your belief that college is a lot of hooey, which is what your main argument really is.
SO LIKE I SAID, let me know when you're willing to own that, because that is what you're really saying.

Correction, you're done. I've made a mess of you and your points are ridiculous. How about you bring up Pol Pot again, third time's the charm.

 

[Puigb]

I find the right's obsession with this woman hilarious. I don't know much about her, but the fact that she has all the Trump worshippers in a frenzy is amusing. Of course they'll claim that they are laughing at her, and claim they hope she runs, etc, all in a desperate attempt to smear anyone who could be considered a threat to the GOP's right wing agenda.

I also find it amusing how the people who voted for a ***** grabbing Reality T.V. Birther who bangs porn stars questioning anyone's credentials, or credibility.

 

[Puigb]

She should shut the **** up about it them. She's just like a parrot of all things left, wrapped in a cute little package. She found out that spouting bumper sticker sound bites without having the ability to defend the things you're parroting makes you look like a fool.

You just described Donald Trump's entire political career and presidency (except without the "cute" part). The guy who never supported Republican policies throughout his entire life, suddenly one day decided to spout "bumber sticker sound bites" without having the ability to defend anything he stated, and he got millions of idiot Republican voters to vote for him in the primaries over 16 other candidates.

So, if the great orange hope could do it...who's to say this woman can't? Then again, the Democrats aren't as easily duped by con artists the way GOP voters are.

 

[Puigb]

The alt-rightists are employing their Lee Atwater techniques against another strong Democratic woman, failing to turn her into another boogiewoman. This will be a full-blown Willie Horton style smearing of DEM women by today’s gop.

Dude, if a hispanic "far left" Democrat woman ends up being Trump's successor (especially with a Democratic controlled congress), it will make the right's over the top reaction to the Obama years seem like peanuts in comparison. And it would be just the karma Trump, his legion of fanatics, and the GOP deserve.

 

[Linc]

Dude, if a hispanic "far left" Democrat woman ends up being Trump's successor (especially with a Democratic controlled congress), it will make the right's over the top reaction to the Obama years seem like peanuts in comparison. And it would be just the karma Trump, his legion of fanatics, and the GOP deserve.

Every Democrat running for a non-liberal, non-minority seat will be made to answer for such idiocy as doing away with ICE. Pence is hammering DEMs with this now, as Dems are being defined. They never learn.

I see these newbie Democrats like AOC as needing to learn how to write legislation, let alone lead a Nation. Two decades at least. Build the bench, just like you build a professional sports team.

If Democrats don’t start thinking like McConnell so they can beat him, they’ll stay in the minority. Gov. Howard Dean’s 50 state approach was and still is the way, all imho .

 

[Puigb]

Every Democrat running for a non-liberal, non-minority seat will be made to answer for such idiocy as doing away with ICE. Pence is hammering DEMs with this now, as Dems are being defined. They never learn.

I see these newbie Democrats like AOC as needing to learn how to write legislation, let alone lead a Nation. Two decades at least. Build the bench, just like you build a professional sports team.

If Democrats don’t start thinking like McConnell so they can beat him, they’ll stay in the minority. Gov. Howard Dean’s 50 state approach was and still is the way, all imho .

Speaking of McConnell, I think this Vox article perfectly sums up what kind of political creature he is, and why he's been successful.

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/27/17511048/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court-anthony-kennedy-retirement

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Speaking of McConnell, I think this Vox article perfectly sums up what kind of political creature he is, and why he's been successful.

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/27/17511048/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court-anthony-kennedy-retirement

A lot of people on this forum play Calvinball!

 

[Linc]

Speaking of McConnell, I think this Vox article perfectly sums up what kind of political creature he is, and why he's been successful.

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/27/17511048/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court-anthony-kennedy-retirement

Any potential Democratic vote out there: read the link from the poster I quoted here concerning McConnell. I’m quite sure most potential Democratic voters don’t even know who he is, let alone what he’s done.

The article missed McConnell inventing the Nuclear trigger in 2005. It also missed McConnell blocking every judicial pick of Obama in 2013, forcing Reid’s hand. It also missed that McMitch argued Citizens Divided 2.0 in front of the SCOTUS.

Next time you see ths Turtle, check out the the three stooges he’s surrounded by; Thune, Cornyn, Barasso

 

[HowardBThiname]

If it quacks, it's a duck. If it's dumb enough to emulate history's worst humans, they can't be surprised when we kill them too. NAZIs and Klansmen don't get to dress the part, speak the part and act surprised when the rest of us treat them like our grandparents did (The Bush family excepted).

Whoa dude!

Back up a bit.

Who are you planning to kill?

You don't get to go around killing Klansmen or other nuts. It's not your place and it's not your prerogative.

Should you attempt that -- you will be hunted down by law enforcement and you will be charged to the fullest extent of the law. Don't be stupid. Don't get yourself lost in that deep hold. There are better ways