Bigfoot 88
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2011
- Messages
- 2,027
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- Location
- Georgia
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Right
This is a poll on the President whose time in office was the most opposite to libertarian ideas and principles.
At the top.So where's the poll?
Thomas Jefferson. Libertarians want to form a Hamiltonian elite of self-indulgent, upper-class, paper-empowered greedhead parasites.
I didn't create the poll specifically to bash FDR, but he is in my top 3, behind Wilson(whom I voted for), and Lincoln.I proudly cast the opening ballot. Unsing the right libertarians here as the guiding rubric - FDR should take this in a romp. The right wing libertarian crowd has made it a cause celebre to say bad things about FDR at every opportunity. Even when the opportunity is not there, they will create one as evidenced by polls such as this one.
So yup -its my favorite prez Franklin Delano Roosevelt tht stands as the opposite for (at least) right wing libertarianism.
Thomas Jefferson. Libertarians want to form a Hamiltonian elite of self-indulgent, upper-class, paper-empowered greedhead parasites.
suspended habeas corpusHow can Lincoln be anti-Libertarian? The man single handedly ended slavery as an institution in the US. Not sure how you can argue somebody is anti-Libertarian when they removed the very antithesis to Libertarianism from the US landscape.
How can Lincoln be anti-Libertarian? The man single handedly ended slavery as an institution in the US. Not sure how you can argue somebody is anti-Libertarian when they removed the very antithesis to Libertarianism from the US landscape.
Lincoln grew government enormously, fought a war against secession, and instituted "greenbacks", a fiat currency that caused mass inflation. There are also a great deal of civil liberties violations many would be shocked to learn.
George Washington, John Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt, etc. etc.
How can Lincoln be anti-Libertarian? The man single handedly ended slavery as an institution in the US. Not sure how you can argue somebody is anti-Libertarian when they removed the very antithesis to Libertarianism from the US landscape.
I don't hear Washington and Adams that often.
True. Off the top of my head, the Whiskey Rebellion and the original Alien and Seditions Acts comes to mind.Look closely at their clamp downs on civil liberties and uprisings.
True. Off the top of my head, the Whiskey Rebellion and the original Alien and Seditions Acts comes to mind.
At the top.
How can Lincoln be anti-Libertarian? The man single handedly ended slavery as an institution in the US. Not sure how you can argue somebody is anti-Libertarian when they removed the very antithesis to Libertarianism from the US landscape.
FDR is a fun one, since he was all about big, BIGGER, and BIGGEST government. Huge bureaucrat, and the New Deal was a government spending spree, but he did pull us out of the depression, and he instituted the Indian New Deal, which was a pretty nice move towards human rights, so I can't hate the guy. He had his heart in the right place, and that was with the People. I have to give him credit for that.
I also have to mention, and I'm actually surprised that you left him out, is Ronald Reagan. This guy was pretty bad, gun control, Iran-Contra affair, turning the Russo-Afghan war into yet another American proxy, war on drugs, he violated every Libertarian principal in the book, and that's why I vote other.
I wanted to do a read through before voting because many of the choices have their abuses and it was a tough call.Then it appears that I crashed this party early. To answer the question, it's pretty tough.
Lincoln was my choice. Suspension of habeas corpus was a huge overreach of his powers, but this was the last of a large string of abuses, I don't think the north's hand was "forced" any more than the south's was. Slavery was a horrid institution that needed to be ended, that said as was pointed out it was a consequence of Lincoln's war against secession, not slavery. The south had a severe contention prior to the slavery issue due to unfair tariffs of southern goods, a legitimate commerce clause gripe and especially heated due to european interests getting favorable trade rates. Lincoln's worst abuse though was making secession without violence impossible, this would set the table for the federal government to eventually centralize to it's current point, for that reason alone he is the father of government overreach.Lincoln was obviously against the States right to secession, even if the people of the separatist states felt they were being harmed by the federal union. However, he did extend The Peoples rights to "negroes". I don't think he's all that bad, because the CSA did a lot to force his hand.
All that, and the institution of the permanent income tax. Nothing more anti-liberty than taking your money simply for earning it.Wilson was against individual rights, via his support for Jim Crow laws, and opposition to womens suffrage. On top of that, he pretty much forced us into the global arena by supporting the First World War. An act that has lead to very anti-Libertarian treaties that we are Constitutionally bound to uphold. He's on the really bad list for Libertarian principals, and I don't believe he has many redeeming qualities as a president, or even a person to be frank.
Massive anti-libertarian, largest government expansion in U.S. history up to that time, set the table for the current expansionist era.FDR is a fun one, since he was all about big, BIGGER, and BIGGEST government. Huge bureaucrat, and the New Deal was a government spending spree, but he did pull us out of the depression, and he instituted the Indian New Deal, which was a pretty nice move towards human rights, so I can't hate the guy. He had his heart in the right place, and that was with the People. I have to give him credit for that.
In restrospect, a few of his stances were troubling but was an overall good president. National parks were ill advised but not that big of a deal, huge conservationist, anti-trust legislation is a 50/50.I can't say anything bad about TR as a person, nor would I simply because I think he was one of the most bad ass presidents we've ever had, but his policies were not Libertarian in the least. One thing he was for, though: Women's suffrage, a Peoples right. I don't consider him to be bad at all, since his policies weren't really anti-libertarian. He just wasn't Libertarian.
Lied us into Vietnam, civil rights legislation was not done for noble purposes though the outcome was a good one, some social policies weight against all citizens for some, typical panderer. No huge losses of liberty but some programs have become rotten from within and are now huge monetary consumers, his tenure didn't do too much against liberty but the seeds are blossoming into rotten fruit.LBJ wasn't too bad, either. He instituted the voters rights act, which prohibited voter discrimination, his civil rights act outlawed segregation, he vehemently went after the KKK and forced them to cut the ****, like murdering blacks, interracial couples, and civil rights activists. I can see a split on that from a Libertarian point of view, but as I see it, he was enforcing the Peoples rights to be free from tyranny imposed upon them in the south. Only big "anti-libertarian" thing I'm aware of is his Medicaid program, and the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Agreed.I'm not going to address W Bush or Obama, because they're too obvious. Neither has a Libertarian bone in their body, and I don't consider either of them to be the worst.
Created the EPA under his tenure, unforgiveable.Nixon, ole tricky Dick, another one of the bad ones. Although "New Federalism" was a good idea, it never happened. He initiated the war on drugs, he also inflicted wage and price controls, inflation still happened, which resulted in all kinds of problems. He was also a bureaucrat who enforced regulatory policies. The only thing he did right, from a Libertarian stand, was endorse the Equal Rights Amendment, and integrate blacks into schools, though, both were not without controversy, concerning his "methods". He basically half-assed it to try and salvage his approval rating.
That is new to me, never heard it but troubling if true.Herbert Hoover cannot be mentioned separate of the Revenue Act of 1932. On top of that, he used military forces led by Douglass MacArthur to stamp out a protest. That protest was comprised of WWI vets demanding that they be given what was promised to them by the government. So he's at the top of the list in my book.
To be fair to Mr. Reagan's legacy, most of the gun control legislation was hidden in important bills by congress. Afghanistan was due to the cold war, I don't blame anyone for trying to embarass an enemy but it did come back to bite us in the ass later. Iran/Contra I give a break for due to the nature of the program, we were trying to safely negotiate a hostage release without violence, probably should have done things differently.I also have to mention, and I'm actually surprised that you left him out, is Ronald Reagan. This guy was pretty bad, gun control, Iran-Contra affair, turning the Russo-Afghan war into yet another American proxy, war on drugs, he violated every Libertarian principal in the book, and that's why I vote other.
To be fair to Mr. Reagan's legacy, most of the gun control legislation was hidden in important bills by congress. Afghanistan was due to the cold war, I don't blame anyone for trying to embarass an enemy but it did come back to bite us in the ass later. Iran/Contra I give a break for due to the nature of the program, we were trying to safely negotiate a hostage release without violence, probably should have done things differently.
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