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More San Diego County kindergartners are missing vaccinations

As stated earlier in this thread-many of the deaths from these childhood diseases are from unvaccinated foreign kids, typically getting sick in Mexico, etc and then sneaking over here illegally for medical attention.

The constant influx of these persons only makes vaccination more important. As far as I know, most vaccinations are not required by law.

They are required only for entering school and then, only if they do not meet and apply for an exemption.

But you need to prove that it is all those "unvaccinated foreign children" that are causing the issues. Simply stating that does not make it true. There were tons of immigrants coming in during those other decades too, and they would have had an even lower vaccination rate in those countries they came from than we did even then or likely that those countries currently have. So that really doesn't explain the disparity at all.
 
You're forgetting about all those vaccinated children getting sick with the illnesses they are protected against.
 
They are required only for entering school and then, only if they do not meet and apply for an exemption.

But you need to prove that it is all those "unvaccinated foreign children" that are causing the issues. Simply stating that does not make it true. There were tons of immigrants coming in during those other decades too, and they would have had an even lower vaccination rate in those countries they came from than we did even then or likely that those countries currently have. So that really doesn't explain the disparity at all.

People often times dont get vaccinated in Mexico and elsewhere in latin america. I fly down there to provide medical care throughout northern mexico.
Lots for you to read here...
Role of immigrants and migrants in emergin... [Med Clin North Am. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI
Home | Immigrant and Refugee Health | CDC
Disease Surveillance Among Newly Arriving Refugees and Immigrants — Electronic Disease Notification System, United States, 2009
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R40570.pdf
Disease, unwanted import - Washington Times
http://fogartyfellows.org/wp-conten...Role-of-immigrants-in-infectious-diseases.pdf
Globalization of Infectious Diseases: The Impact of Migration
 

None of those addressed the main one that I have been using in my own arguments (and that has also been the one with the specific data I found), pertussin/whooping cough. Plus, some of those diseases mentioned in one of those articles aren't even vaccinated against (tuberculosis), and one was hereditary (sickle cell is hereditary). And they still did not actually address what I was speaking of.

Also, there has not be a significant increase in the rate of incoming illegal immigrants within the last decade.

Illegal Immigration, Population Estimates in the United States, 1969-2011 - Illegal Immigration - ProCon.org

There has been a slight increase (at least some of the years), but not really enough to account for the problems now compared to then. Why would they not also have been bringing it with them during those first decades (80s, 90s), but only just now bringing in pertussin? It doesn't make since.
 
None of those addressed the main one that I have been using in my own arguments (and that has also been the one with the specific data I found), pertussin/whooping cough. Plus, some of those diseases mentioned in one of those articles aren't even vaccinated against (tuberculosis), and one was hereditary (sickle cell is hereditary). And they still did not actually address what I was speaking of.

Also, there has not be a significant increase in the rate of incoming illegal immigrants within the last decade.

Illegal Immigration, Population Estimates in the United States, 1969-2011 - Illegal Immigration - ProCon.org

There has been a slight increase (at least some of the years), but not really enough to account for the problems now compared to then. Why would they not also have been bringing it with them during those first decades (80s, 90s), but only just now bringing in pertussin? It doesn't make since.

There are plenty of reasons for the changes seen, as an example parts of the world have started vaccination programs, so the epidemiology is constantly changing. Another example is epiglottitis-historically a children's disease but now in the US its more common in adults. Infectious disease is a constantly changing entity. And as far as pertussis-remember that its not a lifetime immunity. I dont feel the need to get more in depth with you, do the reading to get the backround knowledge.
 
There are plenty of reasons for the changes seen, as an example parts of the world have started vaccination programs, so the epidemiology is constantly changing. Another example is epiglottitis-historically a children's disease but now in the US its more common in adults. Infectious disease is a constantly changing entity. And as far as pertussis-remember that its not a lifetime immunity. I dont feel the need to get more in depth with you, do the reading to get the backround knowledge.

And the fact that other nations have started vaccinating more means that we should see the opposite, a decrease in the number of immigrants coming into our country unvaccinated, with the chance to spread diseases we were already being vaccinated for for many generations, not an increase.
 
You've seen plenty of stories about horrid illnesses spreading in ways they haven't done in decades. Diseases far, far worse than any of the side effects of vaccinations. Diseases that you or your children can give to my children, threatening the lives of my children, who may not be old enough to be vaccinated yet. Or perhaps immunocompromised and therefore unable to be vaccinated. You don't understand why people would react to that with hostility?

Vaccinated children are immune to the diseases in question. You think there are other causes?

They can be as hostile as they want to be... vaccination should not be mandatory for some very valid reasons.
 
Vaccines work, are well worth the risks, and preventative medicine is where the majority of medicines morbidity and mortality reductions have occurred.

Vaccines "work", we are told, as far as the information that is compiled and shared. Physicians routinely do not report adverse reactions and many times adverse reactions are not associated with vaccines, according to doctors, because "it is impossible". The fact is that we don't really know. We are told what big pharma wants us to know and one thing we know is that they are about making money.
 
If you think herd immunity is fallacious, there's nothing to talk to you about.

No. The fallacious part is that if you are part of the herd then you have nothing to worry about. If one chooses to not be a part of the herd then they are the one at risk. If one can't be immunized for some reason then sorry, but **** happens. It is impossible to protect everybody.
 
You are making some incorrect inferences here. One thing many of my patients do, is assume that the experience they had applies to others, or can apply to others. That is just not true. I see people daily, and I read about this type of thing just as often. Thats what Im supposed to do.

Your mindset is the issue here, get informed.

Although no link has yet been made between Natalie's death and the HPV vaccine,

Schoolgirl dies after cervical cancer vaccination | UK news | The Guardian

See, this is the type of bull**** that makes people question the truthfulness and agenda of vaccine worshipers. No link? How about she took the vaccine and ended up dying shortly after. Looks like a pretty big link to me. Not finding a link is very convenient. Same thing happened to my daughter. They had no idea what caused her symptoms but they were positive that it wasn't the vaccine. They actually thought the most likely answer was that it was cat scratch fever. How idiotic. Doctors actually saying that they don't know but would laugh... literally laugh, when we questioned whether it was the vaccine. Doctors many times only see what they want to see... and then none of the doctors reported what happened to VAERS. And we are supposed to trust doctors and Big Pharma... or the statistics? What a crock of ****.
 
Tell this to the family of those 10. You must be so proud.

Tell that to the ones the die or almost die from the vaccines. the ones that get Guillain-Barré syndrome or turn into vegetables and start drooling. You are a doctor and you welcome that crap or act in a vile manner towards those with concerns?
 
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I don't demonize anti-vaxers, I just think they're gullible idiots. .

The same can be said about those that don't understand all the factors that influence the statistics and then take those statistics as gospel... Not saying you are doing that but once you start seeing it from the inside a bit more the more questions there are that can't be answered very well.
 
Vaccines "work", we are told, as far as the information that is compiled and shared. Physicians routinely do not report adverse reactions and many times adverse reactions are not associated with vaccines, according to doctors, because "it is impossible". The fact is that we don't really know. We are told what big pharma wants us to know and one thing we know is that they are about making money.

Its exceedingly hard to prove causation in medicine, the smartest medical researchers on earth know this. The vast majority of adverse reactions are quite mild, I see them perhaps weekly in clinic.

The fact is "big pharma" makes very little money in vaccinations. 10-15 shots in childhood is not exactly a gold mine-this is another misguided and ignorant delusion, sorry.
 
Another flaw in the vaccine argument...

Show me anything that is a 100% assurance in life. Prior to getting any vaccinations, this is explained to any parent or individual getting a vaccine. Of course, if perfection is your standard you are going to have a tough time in life.

In any case-the data is clear and overwhelming as to the benefits of vaccines. I lost my sense of wonderment in people looking at clear and overwhelming evidence and coming to the exact wrong conclusion some time ago. This, I think reveals how little the average person knows about science in general, let alone medicine.
 
Although no link has yet been made between Natalie's death and the HPV vaccine,

Schoolgirl dies after cervical cancer vaccination | UK news | The Guardian

See, this is the type of bull**** that makes people question the truthfulness and agenda of vaccine worshipers. No link? How about she took the vaccine and ended up dying shortly after. Looks like a pretty big link to me. Not finding a link is very convenient. Same thing happened to my daughter. They had no idea what caused her symptoms but they were positive that it wasn't the vaccine. They actually thought the most likely answer was that it was cat scratch fever. How idiotic. Doctors actually saying that they don't know but would laugh... literally laugh, when we questioned whether it was the vaccine. Doctors many times only see what they want to see... and then none of the doctors reported what happened to VAERS. And we are supposed to trust doctors and Big Pharma... or the statistics? What a crock of ****.

See, even the term "vaccine worshipers" betrays your bias. This isnt exactly astrology, though I dont know that you would be able to differentiate. One of the greatest flaws in human logic, is the inference of causation because of correlation. As in Jenny McCartneys kid, and as in this example. I think you might benefit in doing some reading on the scientific process, your emotion is no substitute.
 
Tell that to the ones the die or almost die from the vaccines. the ones that get Guillain-Barré syndrome or turn into vegetables and start drooling. You are a doctor and you welcome that crap or act in a vile manner towards those with concerns?

Im not a doctor. I do practice medicine. Tuck in the emotion.
 
Its exceedingly hard to prove causation in medicine, the smartest medical researchers on earth know this. The vast majority of adverse reactions are quite mild, I see them perhaps weekly in clinic.

The fact is "big pharma" makes very little money in vaccinations. 10-15 shots in childhood is not exactly a gold mine-this is another misguided and ignorant delusion, sorry.

How completely dishonest of you. If you don' think that there is big money in vaccinations you are delusional

The CDC recommends 48 doses of 14 vaccines by age six, and 69 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18.

Big Profits Linked to Vaccine Mandates

since January 2006, Merck has given an additional $377,500 to the Republican Governors Association

Novartis has donated $700,000 to the RGA since January 2006, although it has only directly donated $5,000 to Perry's own campaign. In 2009, Perry signed a bill into law mandating meningitis vaccines for all college students, a requirement he expanded again earlier this year. Novartis was not the only pharmaceutical company to benefit from the new requirement,


HPV vaccine, Merck and Rick Perry's money - CNN.com

Located in Holly Springs, N.C., the Novartis plant, backed by $487 million in federal funding

With the $780 billion global prescription drug market growing at a sluggish 5% a year, many analysts reckon that the vaccine industry, which is forecast to climb 13% annually through 2012, offers the most upside potential. "More companies are investing in vaccines as a way of diversifying away from prescription drugs, and new technologies such as cell culture are enabling them to produce more sophisticated vaccines," says Michael Boyd, acting director general of the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations (IFPMA).


How Big Pharma Profits from Swine Flu - Businessweek

Investors

Meanwhile, pharmaceutical profits from swine-flu-related drugs have soared – with earnings between $10 billion and $15 billion in 2009, investment bank JPMorgan estimates.

Read more at Swine-flu bribe fever!

Who do you think is saying this?

I have heard this repeatedly... that if you choose to not vaccinate you are ruining the herd. I am sure you have heard the same... no need to play games.

Show me anything that is a 100% assurance in life. Prior to getting any vaccinations, this is explained to any parent or individual getting a vaccine. Of course, if perfection is your standard you are going to have a tough time in life.

It really isn't explained that well. They say that there could be side effects but only tell you about the most mild of them. It is pretty dishonest especially since the medical industry knows little about the true extent of the adverse effects.

In any case-the data is clear and overwhelming as to the benefits of vaccines. I lost my sense of wonderment in people looking at clear and overwhelming evidence and coming to the exact wrong conclusion some time ago. This, I think reveals how little the average person knows about science in general, let alone medicine.

Yes. The benefits to the over all population are clear. That does not mean that vaccines are as safe as people indicate that they are either. Sure... overall more people are saved from vaccines but the problem is the Russian Roulette factor. You might very well be one of the untold millions that never get a disease but because you are pressured into taking a vaccine you end up dying. THAT is the point. The majority doesn't care at all about that and dismisses pretty much everything that might be negative about vaccines. Even you are doing it... "gee, nothing is 100%" and then when somebody points out an adverse reaction either heckling, hatred or dismissal comes out and at the very least, what you said, "Its exceedingly hard to prove causation in medicine"

See, even the term "vaccine worshipers" betrays your bias. This isnt exactly astrology, though I dont know that you would be able to differentiate. One of the greatest flaws in human logic, is the inference of causation because of correlation. As in Jenny McCartneys kid, and as in this example. I think you might benefit in doing some reading on the scientific process, your emotion is no substitute.

I don't have a bias and my anger is at idiots that insist there is nothing wrong with vaccinations even in the face of evidence... I had my daughter vaccinated until she ran into complications and I have read a ton on the subject. If you have as well then you know that there is government backed information that is biased due to profit motivation and that does not include all data and then there is all the other information that is immediately dismissed as fringe and uneducated.

Im not a doctor. I do practice medicine. Tuck in the emotion.

Then keep disrespectful **** like this to yourself...

Originally Posted by US Conservative
Tell this to the family of those 10. You must be so proud.

And if you don't practice medicine then stop dropping off comments like, "in your clinic" because you are attempting to pass yourself off as having more expertise. Go and change the bedding or sell some cough syrup instead.
 
How completely dishonest of you. If you don' think that there is big money in vaccinations you are delusional

The CDC recommends 48 doses of 14 vaccines by age six, and 69 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18.

Big Profits Linked to Vaccine Mandates

since January 2006, Merck has given an additional $377,500 to the Republican Governors Association

Novartis has donated $700,000 to the RGA since January 2006, although it has only directly donated $5,000 to Perry's own campaign. In 2009, Perry signed a bill into law mandating meningitis vaccines for all college students, a requirement he expanded again earlier this year. Novartis was not the only pharmaceutical company to benefit from the new requirement,


HPV vaccine, Merck and Rick Perry's money - CNN.com

Located in Holly Springs, N.C., the Novartis plant, backed by $487 million in federal funding

With the $780 billion global prescription drug market growing at a sluggish 5% a year, many analysts reckon that the vaccine industry, which is forecast to climb 13% annually through 2012, offers the most upside potential. "More companies are investing in vaccines as a way of diversifying away from prescription drugs, and new technologies such as cell culture are enabling them to produce more sophisticated vaccines," says Michael Boyd, acting director general of the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations (IFPMA).


How Big Pharma Profits from Swine Flu - Businessweek

Investors

Meanwhile, pharmaceutical profits from swine-flu-related drugs have soared – with earnings between $10 billion and $15 billion in 2009, investment bank JPMorgan estimates.

Read more at Swine-flu bribe fever!



I have heard this repeatedly... that if you choose to not vaccinate you are ruining the herd. I am sure you have heard the same... no need to play games.



It really isn't explained that well. They say that there could be side effects but only tell you about the most mild of them. It is pretty dishonest especially since the medical industry knows little about the true extent of the adverse effects.



Yes. The benefits to the over all population are clear. That does not mean that vaccines are as safe as people indicate that they are either. Sure... overall more people are saved from vaccines but the problem is the Russian Roulette factor. You might very well be one of the untold millions that never get a disease but because you are pressured into taking a vaccine you end up dying. THAT is the point. The majority doesn't care at all about that and dismisses pretty much everything that might be negative about vaccines. Even you are doing it... "gee, nothing is 100%" and then when somebody points out an adverse reaction either heckling, hatred or dismissal comes out and at the very least, what you said, "Its exceedingly hard to prove causation in medicine"



I don't have a bias and my anger is at idiots that insist there is nothing wrong with vaccinations even in the face of evidence... I had my daughter vaccinated until she ran into complications and I have read a ton on the subject. If you have as well then you know that there is government backed information that is biased due to profit motivation and that does not include all data and then there is all the other information that is immediately dismissed as fringe and uneducated.



Then keep disrespectful **** like this to yourself...



And if you don't practice medicine then stop dropping off comments like, "in your clinic" because you are attempting to pass yourself off as having more expertise. Go and change the bedding or sell some cough syrup instead.

You appear very grouchy in your reply. I think Id be wasting my time arguing against your emotion here.
 
You appear very grouchy in your reply. I think Id be wasting my time arguing against your emotion here.

Grouchy? Nope... but I understand that this is actually a concession reply instead.

Better luck next time.
 
Actually, its clear there is nothing that could be said that would convince you. Continue to stick to your myths that conceal reality.

You make unsubstantiated claims. I bring facts into the argument that squash said claims along with balance and you bail and run... Quitter. Run and cry.
 
You make unsubstantiated claims. I bring facts into the argument that squash said claims along with balance and you bail and run... Quitter. Run and cry.

Yeah, my medical degree and facts can't stand up to your brilliant insight. I have to say, this is the typical vaccine truther response. Its best not to waste my time with it-in fact you have taken too much already. Good evening.
 
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