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Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.
WASHINGTON - The federal official with the power to mobilize a massive federal response to Hurricane Katrina was Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, not the former FEMA chief who was relieved of his duties and resigned earlier this week, federal documents reviewed by Knight Ridder show.
Even before the storm struck the Gulf Coast, Chertoff could have ordered federal agencies into action without any request from state or local officials. Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown had only limited authority to do so until about 36 hours after the storm hit, when Chertoff designated him as the "principal federal official" in charge of the storm.
As thousands of hurricane victims went without food, water and shelter in the days after Katrina's early morning Aug. 29 landfall, critics assailed Brown for being responsible for delays that might have cost hundreds of lives.
But Chertoff - not Brown - was in charge of managing the national response to a catastrophic disaster, according to the National Response Plan, the federal government's blueprint for how agencies will handle major natural disasters or terrorist incidents. An order issued by President Bush in 2003 also assigned that responsibility to the homeland security director.
But according to a memo obtained by Knight Ridder, Chertoff didn't shift that power to Brown until late afternoon or evening on Aug. 30, about 36 hours after Katrina hit Louisiana and Mississippi. That same memo suggests that Chertoff may have been confused about his lead role in disaster response and that of his department.
SouthernDemocrat said:More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations:
- The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans made a huge mistake by moving people to the Superdome. The fact of the matter is, if those people had not been moved to and encouraged to go to the Superdome, the majority would have probably perished in the hurricane and directly after when the levees failed and the city was flooded. It was probably the best move made by any level of government prior to the hurricane.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]134,000 people were left to be evacuated.
- The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans should have used some “2000” school buses to evacuate the poor, elderly, and disabled. There are a few problems with that assertion though.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]The city did not have 2000 school buses, it had 324 school buses.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]Out of those 324 school buses the city had at its disposal, 70 were broken down.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]This leaves 254 school buses the city had at its disposal.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]If all of those school buses were used to evacuate the poor, the elderly, and the disabled, less than 10,000 additional people could have been evacuated.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]So still over 120,000 people would have been left in the city.
- The radical right claims that the governor of Louisiana could have requested additional National Guard troops, but did not. This is a complete fabrication. The Governor of Louisiana asked for additional units from other states on Sunday before the Hurricane, that request was not approved by the Whitehouse until late Thursday night after the hurricane.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12551986.htm
[/FONT]
- The radical right claims that the Bush Administration did not have the authority to intervene in the days after the hurricane. This is yet another complete fabrication by the radical right. We now know that the Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, actually delayed the Federal Response.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT]
teacher said:So you use the buses to remove the infirm to Baton Rouge. Then turn around and get more. And again. and again. your premise is weak. You spurn logic to heap blame on the Republicans. The problem is people with the "it can't be done" attitude like you were in charge. Something can always be done. Again, not my fault so many healthy people spent days standing on an over pass. They were just stupid. That's all.
teacher said:You spurn logic to heap blame on the Republicans. The problem is people with the "it can't be done" attitude like you were in charge. Something can always be done. Again, not my fault so many healthy people spent days standing on an over pass. They were just stupid. That's all.
SouthernDemocrat said:I agree that the infirmed should have been moved to Baton Rouge if at all possible. However, you have to realize, Baton Rouge is 80 miles away. By school bus, you are talking 2 hours each way. When you consider the massive amount of traffic getting out of New Orleans, at best, they could have made one trip.
Face it, those school busses should have been used, but it would not have changed things that much if they were.
This was a federal disaster, the federal government and its vast resources is the only government entity capable of dealing with a disaster like this. Its why we pay taxes, its why we have invested nearly 50 billion a year in homeland security since 9/11.
teacher said:At any point in your life have you advocated personal responsibility? Class five hurricane is on the way. I'm gonna start filling everything that holds water up. And so on. Yea, you sit around and wait for someone to take care of you, I'm gonna go hunt gator. No wonder you vote Democratic.
While your busy throwing darts at the Bush picture. Use YOUR numbers of people, buses, and times to figure out how long to evacuate everyone from N.O. that was left. I did. I get, conservatively, 15,000 a day. And that's just with those 324 school buses. And remember, everyone you get out means less demands on the supplies for those left. Common friggin sense southern boy. Try it instead of finger pointing. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the Mayor and Governor weren't so inept.
What's gonna be fun is the investigation of where all the federal funds going to La. since the Clinton years went.
SouthernDemocrat said:[/B]What happened in New Orleans is that we had a Federal Disaster, not a state disaster, not a local disaster.
teacher- If I were Mayor of N.O. this would be a non issue. We have nothing further to discuss.
teacher said:SouthernDemocrat said:[/b]What happened in New Orleans is that we had a Federal Disaster, not a state disaster, not a local disaster.
teacher- If I were Mayor of N.O. this would be a non issue. We have nothing further to discuss.
Well, when you can't argue with facts and logic, you can always result to narcisim.:roll:
SouthernDemocrat said:The local government was able to successfully evacuate over 3/4s of the population of a major U.S. city, that when you think about it is a hell of an effort.
IValueFreedom said:I think you give local government WAY too much credit here. Saying that the local government successfully evacuated over 3/4 is pure crap. Virtually all of those 3/4 evacuated themselves. They listened to the weatherman, said "oh crap, let's go to a hotel" and left. Local government didn't do anything except say, "Please evacuate the city" and "Travel North or East as West is backed up."
You're right tho. That one statement asking people to leave the city and the other statement about which direction had the least traffic did take a hell of an effort.
It did take a whole lot of effort to transport that 3/4 of the population... oh wait... they found transportation on their own.
Well it did take a whole lot of effort to shelter them all... oh wait... they found shelter on their own (until days AFTER the storm).
Well... it did take a whole lot of effort to provide medical attention and food and water to these people too... oh wait... again on their own.
Hmm... yep. their local government must have pulled all nighters to acheive... oh wait... ignore all these "unimportant" factors.
SouthernDemocrat said:teacher said:Well, when you can't argue with facts and logic, you can always result to narcisim.:roll:
There are "facts and logic" all over the place. You are selecting to embrace only those that allow you to cast blame on the President. Regardless of where the Feds messed up, the state failed to meet it's mission.
Katrina proved to us all that our government system has too much red tape and bureacracy between it to allow an expedient operation within our borders for a disaster of this size. We are not a secular governmnet. We have 1 government overseeing 50 which in turn is overseeing 1000's. There was a Chain of Command and Control breakdown at all levels. These are "facts" and they are the real problems of what happened. This was bigger than just one man. Focusing on one individual in such grand partisan fashion will not fix the bigger issues involved.
SouthernDemocrat said:Do you honestly believe that handling this disaster was within the capabilities of state and local governments?
GySgt said:Absolutely not. This problem was bigger than what they could have reacted too.
If the best CO, XO, or platoon seargent you ever knew was the Mayor, would you still say that Gunny? This whole thing makes me nuts. Ah.....more nuts.
teacher said:GySgt said:Absolutely not. This problem was bigger than what they could have reacted too.
If the best CO, XO, or platoon seargent you ever knew was the Mayor, would you still say that Gunny? This whole thing makes me nuts. Ah.....more nuts.
If this was a military action there wouldn't even be a discussion of a disaster. Just an outcry from American citizens after a few Marines beat down some looters on camera.
GySgt said:teacher said:If this was a military action there wouldn't even be a discussion of a disaster. Just an outcry from American citizens after a few Marines beat down some looters on camera.
I think it was Rush who said long ago that the only thing our government does right is the military. I've been stealing that line ever since.
And to go with that he says the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. Funny and true.
My understanding was that the school buses in question do not belong to the city or state? Unless they were offered to the city on this occasion it's a mute point.teacher said:So you use the buses to remove the infirm to Baton Rouge. Then turn around and get more. And again. and again. your premise is weak. You spurn logic to heap blame on the Republicans. The problem is people with the "it can't be done" attitude like you were in charge. Something can always be done. Again, not my fault so many healthy people spent days standing on an over pass. They were just stupid. That's all.
scottyz said:My understanding was that the school buses in question do not belong to the city or state? Unless they were offered to the city on this occasion it's a mute point.
SouthernDemocrat said:More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations:
- The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans made a huge mistake by moving people to the Superdome. The fact of the matter is, if those people had not been moved to and encouraged to go to the Superdome, the majority would have probably perished in the hurricane and directly after when the levees failed and the city was flooded. It was probably the best move made by any level of government prior to the hurricane.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]134,000 people were left to be evacuated.
- The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans should have used some “2000” school buses to evacuate the poor, elderly, and disabled. There are a few problems with that assertion though.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]The city did not have 2000 school buses, it had 324 school buses.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]Out of those 324 school buses the city had at its disposal, 70 were broken down.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]This leaves 254 school buses the city had at its disposal.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]If all of those school buses were used to evacuate the poor, the elderly, and the disabled, less than 10,000 additional people could have been evacuated.
-[FONT="] [/FONT]So still over 120,000 people would have been left in the city.
cnredd said:Wow...This one cuts deep into the city's management, but I find it hysterical that you use it as a defense....I will attempt to be clear...
It...is...the...city's...responsibility...to...evacuate...the...city...Not...Federal...
If...the...city...doesn't..have...the...means...to...evacuate...the...city...they...didn't...live...up...to...their...responsibility...
If...the...buses...were...too...small...in...number...and...broken...down...then...
A)The...city...didn't...do...its...job...according...to...its...own...emergency...plan...
B)The...MAYOR...didn't...request...enough...help...from...the...governor...who...could've...brought...them...in...from...surrounding...areas...or...request...buses...from...other...states...
Pointing fingers is a wonderful thing, ain't it?...It's a shame I'm following the direction of your pointed finger and see nothing...Turn your finger 180 degrees and you will find a local government unable to implement its own emergency plan....
But that's ok...you will continue to blame everyone you hate instead of where it is rightly due...
Hope you don't burn your dinner tonight...Those damn Republicans...:roll:
teacher said:GySgt said:I think it was Rush who said long ago that the only thing our government does right is the military. I've been stealing that line ever since.
And to go with that he says the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. Funny and true.
How would Rush know? Didn’t he get 4 or 5 draft deferments?
It depends on how you define it actually. Yes, we have by far the best military in the world. However, our defense spending is also the most wasteful and inefficient federal government expenditure due to (insert your congressman’s or president’s favorite big contributing defense contractor here). I remember reading an AP article a couple of years ago saying that a recent CBO Pentagon audit found that the Defense Department could not account for over 1 Trillion dollars in defense spending.
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