More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations

[gordontravels]

I disagree. New Orleans is already in bad shape. WHat will another hit do to it? Other areas on the Gulf are better able to handle the situation (and quite likely have better evacuation plans in place) than New Orleans was able to. Of course, we don't want ANY PLACE to have to deal with it. Let's just hope that this storm doesn't turn into a Cat 3 or worse.

I have a good friend that's a nurse in Mobile, Alabama. She's not from that area and even though she was brushed by Ivan last year she was very afraid in July when Dennis was on his way, a strong catagory 3 storm. Since she is a nurse and since she can't evacuate unless the hospital is evacuated, she must ride out these storms. Yet she was scared and didn't know what to do. So we talked.

Now? She has a laundry basket in her utility closet with radio, flashlight, electric lantern, extra batteries, first aid kit, extra glasses and reading materials, food (tuna and salmon in tear-open envelopes, easy open cans of meat and fruit, foil juice packs, assorted snacks and nuts in jars and sealed bags, all her important papers in large ziploc bags, and food for her bird). She has five 2 1/2 gallon drinking water containers which will last her a week at least.

She bought things she likes to eat so she can rotate what's in the basket but as soon as she hears there is a hurricane entering or maybe entering the gulf, she checks her basket and replenishes right away to be ready.

When the storm is coming she puts the laundry basket, her bird cage, the water, cushions from the sofa and blankets in her bathroom. She even practiced one night and slept in the bathtub and had a good nights sleep. Is she still scared? Oh yes, she is afraid of hurricanes. Is she prepared? Oh yes, she is ready to take care of herself and knows what to do. Does that make her feel better and more confident? Absolutely and, that's how one survives a disaster; by being prepared.

She handled Katrina with only her fear but prepared as she could be. Her fears are less now and she is ready for the next storm. There will be a next storm and she knows it.

In an area that is as poor as New Orleans anyone, you, me, the mayor - we know that someone elderly or poor can't necessarily fend for themselves. Their local government has to step in. Like Mayor Nagin said on the Today Show this morning - the Admiral went too far when he spoke directly to the people of New Orleans saying it was a bad idea to let them back into the city so soon. The Mayor is right. When it comes to the people of New Orleans, the Mayor is in charge before, during and after the storm. See? The Mayor is prepared too.

Isn't he? :duel

 

[akyron]

In my opinion, any law that gives MORE authority to the national government at the expense of state and local governments is a step in the WRONG direction.

I would agree with that except for the recent Katrina event exposing how uncoordinated our state and local authorities are at managing under stress.

Training and a few billion should bring them up to speed.

 

[ludahai]

I would agree with that except for the recent Katrina event exposing how uncoordinated our state and local authorities are at managing under stress.

Training and a few billion should bring them up to speed.

It is up to local people to keep their local and state governments accountable. It is not the responsibility of the national government to bail out a locality because their leaders are stupid and incompetant. We need to REDUCE the size and scope of the national government to more constitutional lines, NOT enlarge and bloat it even further.

 

[DeeJayH]

This proves that the average American civilian can not be satisfied. They cry about the "unconstitutionallity" of the Patriot Act. They cry about Federal Government intrusions of individual civil liberties. They cry about Federal Government intrusion into state business. But when a hurricane hits, the Federal Government is supposed to break all laws and procedures?

There is no doubt that aid did not come on time....but you can blame your system, which ensures your civil liberties, for that. People can't have it both ways.

AMEN
Thank you for your service

 

[DeeJayH]

Of course, I think that if you had the means to get yourself out, then you should have gotten yourself out. However, a very large percentage of those who were left did not have the means to get themselves out of town. No one likes taxes, but one of the things that I pay taxes for is for the federal government to protect its citizens and to help them in times of disaster. In fact, I think it’s an excellent investment of the tax dollars that I trust my country with. If for example we were invaded by a hostile nation and the locality I live in were under attack, I would hope that the federal government would respond quickly and efficiently to help protect my family and others in our community. I suppose that if the federal government did not come to our aid, I could take some “personal responsibility”, and arm myself with one of my hunting guns to defend my home and family and get others in my community to do the same, but it would be almost certain that we would be overwhelmed and that defending our community against a hostile nation would be beyond the capabilities of my local community, local government, and state government. What happened in New Orleans is that we had a Federal Disaster, not a state disaster, not a local disaster. This was not a small flood, a tornado, or a house fire, but rather, it was one of the largest natural disasters in our nation’s history. Dealing with that disaster and its aftermath was beyond the capabilities of local communities, local governments, and even the state level. The local government was able to successfully evacuate over 3/4s of the population of a major U.S. city, that when you think about it is a hell of an effort. Were mistakes made? Of course, lots of them. But they were overwhelmed as anyone would have been. The logical thing to do and what did save countless lives was to take those that were left in the city and get them to the Astrodome and Convention Centers. It was far from a perfect plan, but then again, its not like they had 50 billion dollars a year to put into disaster preparedness like the Federal Government has. So when you want to know why I am so much more angry at the failures of the federal government than the failures of the state and local governments, its because I as a taxpayer have paid the federal government for my entire working life no telling how many thousands of dollars to do a far better job than the job they did.

I live in Florida
never saw anything here, that resembles the debacle in New Orleans
lets see how Texas does after Rita
and than tell me how it is the feds fault
Louisiana is one of the most corrupt states in the Union
and the poor took it in the backside as a result

how about those Red Cross relief trucks that were not allowed to supply the Superdome and Convention Center because
"they (N.O./LA government) want them out of there"

 

[SKILMATIC]

Re:

I think OJ blew the levies. shhhhh. Pass it on.

:rofl :2funny:

Ok dont say that casue liberals will beleive you

 

[DeeJayH]

Which would you carry out of your home?

3-5 days worth of food

or

a child?

Hey mary, finally made it here
so different forum yet still disagreeing with you :mrgreen:

It would have been quite easy to take care of both, your argument is not an either/or comment.
as a parent myself i would have taken my child and nothing but a ton of baby supplies. I can last many days without luxuries like food and water :roll: . But the baby can not
i even remember seeing this disheveled elderly black man going around the dome or convention center with a shopping cart full of diapers and baby food and water (or pedialyte)
why can some bum on the street get the supplies but not a 'responsible' parent

Long Term Poverty is the True Mental disorder
doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results
If you depend on the government for everything
you take it in the backside
yet they are completely dependent upon a government they so despise and blame for their lot in life :doh

 

[gordontravels]

Hey mary, finally made it here
so different forum yet still disagreeing with you

It would have been quite easy to take care of both, your argument is not an either/or comment.
as a parent myself i would have taken my child and nothing but a ton of baby supplies. I can last many days without luxuries like food and water But the baby can not
i even remember seeing this disheveled elderly black man going around the dome or convention center with a shopping cart full of diapers and baby food and water (or pedialyte)
why can some bum on the street get the supplies but not a 'responsible' parent

Long Term Poverty is the True Mental disorder
doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results
If you depend on the government for everything
you take it in the backside
yet they are completely dependent upon a government they so despise and blame for their lot in life

I believe that most of the poverty in our country is deep seated in cycles that are driven first from the family level and then as a consequence of the society we all live in. Anyone that thinks individuals should be responsible for themselves has my vote. Anyone that thinks the poor can reverse course without a major overhaul of the very society we live in I think is wrong.

I think the key is education. Education at not only the school age level but... Education of those beyond school for trade and professional purposes can be developed by the government with payback of payroll taxes. Education of the family itself whether single or duel parent. How to help your child or how to stop your child from going down the Hip Hop (no offense meant to the art) Road not learning at least the basic skills they will need to compete for a job that may be open. Knowing basic english and knowing a prospective employer will expect to hear it is important.

How about this. Cities like New Orleans should require companies such as Wal-Mart who want to build stores in their area to build stores in diverse locations - both rich and poor. I am not saying the local government should tell Wal-Mart how to run their business but as a nation, we should not worry about telling Wal-Mart how they can improve life for poor people and still achieve their goals. We don't say "act this way" we say "this is the way to act and do business in our community/city/ county/ state".

Poverty can make a person think they have no where to go. Some people need help and would be grateful to give back if they got that help. Why not? :duel

 

[DeeJayH]

Poverty can make a person think they have no where to go. Some people need help and would be grateful to give back if they got that help. Why not? :duel

the poor have all the help they need
but they dont want to get a second job, much less a third job to get ahead
they buy $100 sneakers for their kids instead of buying "hooked on phonic'
most of poverty is a mental illness. not a chemically induced one, or a physical injury
but the unwillingness to do what needs to be done to get ahead in life.
Anybody who wants to get ahead can, if they go for it
not going to find success standing on a street corner pounding a 40
not going to find success sleeping all day
it is not the governments or the publics responsibility to educate adults
we educate our young, and if they fail to take advantage of it
they deserve the miserable life they will have
but that wont stop them from having 100 babies

so sick of hearing people say " how is a person supposed to raise a family on minimum wage"

Your not supposed to
if you make minimum wage, you are not ready for a family
keep your johnson in your pants or keep your legs closed
until you get your life together and on track

 

[Tashah]

More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations:

You seem to be quite adept at half-truths yourself SD.

The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans made a huge mistake by moving people to the Superdome. The fact of the matter is, if those people had not been moved to and encouraged to go to the Superdome, the majority would have probably perished in the hurricane and directly after when the levees failed and the city was flooded. It was probably the best move made by any level of government prior to the hurricane.

For New Orleans disaster response, Mayor Nagin had previously chosen the Superdome and the Convention Center. So far so good. The core problem with these two venues is that Mayor Nagin designated them as disaster sanctuaries and simply left it at that. He did not have them supplied with food and water, power generators, or security personel. Mayor Nagin was responsible under FEMA guidelines for having these assets in situ before disaster struck.

Another item of note is why was Mayor Nagin so tardy in issuing the citywide evacuation order? The US National Hurricane Center in Miami strongly advised the mayor on Friday afternoon to issue the order immediately. Mayor Nagin did not issue an evacuation order until Sunday morning!

The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans should have used some “2000” school buses to evacuate the poor, elderly, and disabled. There are a few problems with that assertion though.

The only problem here is your 'school bus' qualifier. In addition to school buses, New Orleans also had a substancial number of city transit buses and additionally, hundreds of tourist buses that could have been pressed into emergency service. Could have. Should have. Would have

The radical right claims that the governor of Louisiana could have requested additional National Guard troops, but did not. This is a complete fabrication. The Governor of Louisiana asked for additional units from other states on Sunday before the Hurricane, that request was not approved by the Whitehouse until late Thursday night after the hurricane.

The govornor of Louisana still refuses to relinquish emergency powers of management to Federal agencies.

The radical right claims that the Bush Administration did not have the authority to intervene in the days after the hurricane. This is yet another complete fabrication by the radical right. We now know that the Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, actually delayed the Federal Response.

Federal law and FEMA guidelines stipulate that state and local authorities have the principal responsibility in this regard, and must formally relinquish that vested authority before Federal authorities can take command. This government heirarchal arrangement is known as the formal COC... Chain of Command.

I would suggest that you take an unbiased hard look at the actions and in-actions of the state and local institutions in this regard before you unload on the federal problems. There is an abundance of blame to go around, and your politicizing the Katrina disaster while Hurricane Rita looms on the horizon seems to be a bit callous and ill-timed.

 

[gordontravels]

the poor have all the help they need
but they dont want to get a second job, much less a third job to get ahead
they buy $100 sneakers for their kids instead of buying "hooked on phonic'
most of poverty is a mental illness. not a chemically induced one, or a physical injury
but the unwillingness to do what needs to be done to get ahead in life.
Anybody who wants to get ahead can, if they go for it
not going to find success standing on a street corner pounding a 40
not going to find success sleeping all day
it is not the governments or the publics responsibility to educate adults
we educate our young, and if they fail to take advantage of it
they deserve the miserable life they will have
but that wont stop them from having 100 babies

so sick of hearing people say " how is a person supposed to raise a family on minimum wage"

Your not supposed to
if you make minimum wage, you are not ready for a family
keep your johnson in your pants or keep your legs closed
until you get your life together and on track

What a cruel or angry outlook. I know poor people and you don't it's apparent. How can you even see them from up there. These are all talking points I've heard before. Not all poor fit your hatred although I'm sure some do but... it's still hatred.

As far as whether you are cruel or just angry... I'm sure it's some of both. Still... may you never go hungry. :duel

 

[DeeJayH]

What a cruel or angry outlook. I know poor people and you don't it's apparent. How can you even see them from up there. These are all talking points I've heard before. Not all poor fit your hatred although I'm sure some do but... it's still hatred.

As far as whether you are cruel or just angry... I'm sure it's some of both. Still... may you never go hungry. :duel

I am new here so let me clarify for you
i grew up poor watching my mother crying at the dinner table trying to figure out how to rob peter to pay paul
i watched her work from 6 am til 11pm 7 days a week for 10 years + to make 6 cents per line that she typed.
I dropped out of college to support a child I fathered, with what turned out to be a gold digging ho
after washing dishes at Outback Steakhouse and selling tupperware and ginsu knives door-to-door
I started a courier company and in less than 4 years I went from $100/week to $70,000/year
but a poor old lady lost control of her car and took me out on the parkway at 60 mph
i spent 6 months in therapy recovering
I lost everything and had to move in with my mother for years to rebuild.
I later made my mark on Wall St and retired to florida to sell real estate
I am what one would call an entrepreneur
I make my own way
and in all my troubles, and my families, we never took a dime from the government
it is about making ones own way in the world
taking personal responsibility
sucking up the pain and hardships in life and making it anyway
so no, I have no sympathy for chronically poor people, they are mentally handicapped by their own actions/decisions
I have all the sympathy in the world for people who fall on hard times and do not have any family to fall back on. and i have no problem giving them a hand up
but i despise the Liberal/ Progressive attitude of cradle to grave entitlements
This country is not a Democracy, it is not a socialist state
It is a Capitalist nation
you reap what you sow
and the vast majority of poor people reap nothing, because they sow nothing
than they sit there drunk or high, and bitch and moan that they can not get ahead

Go check out Germany
they have next to no poverty
but they do have about 10% unemployment
because why work when the government will make sure you survive just fine
and where is the economic strength of the country
nowhere because of the high taxes and overly aggressive social programs that will bankrupt the country
and many others like it

because just like a business, if a country is not growing it is dying

 

[SKILMATIC]

You seem to be quite adept at half-truths yourself SD.


For New Orleans disaster response, Mayor Nagin had previously chosen the Superdome and the Convention Center. So far so good. The core problem with these two venues is that Mayor Nagin designated them as disaster sanctuaries and simply left it at that. He did not have them supplied with food and water, power generators, or security personel. Mayor Nagin was responsible under FEMA guidelines for having these assets in situ before disaster struck.

Another item of note is why was Mayor Nagin so tardy in issuing the citywide evacuation order? The US National Hurricane Center in Miami strongly advised the mayor on Friday afternoon to issue the order immediately. Mayor Nagin did not issue an evacuation order until Sunday morning!


The only problem here is your 'school bus' qualifier. In addition to school buses, New Orleans also had a substancial number of city transit buses and additionally, hundreds of tourist buses that could have been pressed into emergency service. Could have. Should have. Would have


The govornor of Louisana still refuses to relinquish emergency powers of management to Federal agencies.


Federal law and FEMA guidelines stipulate that state and local authorities have the principal responsibility in this regard, and must formally relinquish that vested authority before Federal authorities can take command. This government heirarchal arrangement is known as the formal COC... Chain of Command.

I would suggest that you take an unbiased hard look at the actions and in-actions of the state and local institutions in this regard before you unload on the federal problems. There is an abundance of blame to go around, and your politicizing the Katrina disaster while Hurricane Rita looms on the horizon seems to be a bit callous and ill-timed.

I love you. :agree :cheers:

 

[cnredd]

You seem to be quite adept at half-truths yourself SD.


For New Orleans disaster response, Mayor Nagin had previously chosen the Superdome and the Convention Center. So far so good. The core problem with these two venues is that Mayor Nagin designated them as disaster sanctuaries and simply left it at that. He did not have them supplied with food and water, power generators, or security personel. Mayor Nagin was responsible under FEMA guidelines for having these assets in situ before disaster struck.

Another item of note is why was Mayor Nagin so tardy in issuing the citywide evacuation order? The US National Hurricane Center in Miami strongly advised the mayor on Friday afternoon to issue the order immediately. Mayor Nagin did not issue an evacuation order until Sunday morning!


The only problem here is your 'school bus' qualifier. In addition to school buses, New Orleans also had a substancial number of city transit buses and additionally, hundreds of tourist buses that could have been pressed into emergency service. Could have. Should have. Would have


The govornor of Louisana still refuses to relinquish emergency powers of management to Federal agencies.


Federal law and FEMA guidelines stipulate that state and local authorities have the principal responsibility in this regard, and must formally relinquish that vested authority before Federal authorities can take command. This government heirarchal arrangement is known as the formal COC... Chain of Command.

I would suggest that you take an unbiased hard look at the actions and in-actions of the state and local institutions in this regard before you unload on the federal problems. There is an abundance of blame to go around, and your politicizing the Katrina disaster while Hurricane Rita looms on the horizon seems to be a bit callous and ill-timed.

Please keep in mind that you are responding to "SouthernDemocrat", so this stuff is way beyond comprehension....

I will simplify...

SouthernDemocrat criticizes federal authority over state and local authority...Why?...simple...

The Mayor of New Orleans...is...a..............Southern Democrat......

The Governor of Louisiana...is...a..............Southern Democrat......

A + B = B + A...:shrug:

 

[gordontravels]

I am new here so let me clarify for you
i grew up poor watching my mother crying at the dinner table trying to figure out how to rob peter to pay paul
i watched her work from 6 am til 11pm 7 days a week for 10 years + to make 6 cents per line that she typed.
I dropped out of college to support a child I fathered, with what turned out to be a gold digging ho
after washing dishes at Outback Steakhouse and selling tupperware and ginsu knives door-to-door
I started a courier company and in less than 4 years I went from $100/week to $70,000/year
but a poor old lady lost control of her car and took me out on the parkway at 60 mph
i spent 6 months in therapy recovering
I lost everything and had to move in with my mother for years to rebuild.
I later made my mark on Wall St and retired to florida to sell real estate
I am what one would call an entrepreneur
I make my own way
and in all my troubles, and my families, we never took a dime from the government
it is about making ones own way in the world
taking personal responsibility
sucking up the pain and hardships in life and making it anyway
so no, I have no sympathy for chronically poor people, they are mentally handicapped by their own actions/decisions
I have all the sympathy in the world for people who fall on hard times and do not have any family to fall back on. and i have no problem giving them a hand up
but i despise the Liberal/ Progressive attitude of cradle to grave entitlements
This country is not a Democracy, it is not a socialist state
It is a Capitalist nation
you reap what you sow
and the vast majority of poor people reap nothing, because they sow nothing
than they sit there drunk or high, and bitch and moan that they can not get ahead

Go check out Germany
they have next to no poverty
but they do have about 10% unemployment
because why work when the government will make sure you survive just fine
and where is the economic strength of the country
nowhere because of the high taxes and overly aggressive social programs that will bankrupt the country
and many others like it

because just like a business, if a country is not growing it is dying

Even with your wonderful resume you have no clue. That you can look at this one and that one and label this one to the left; this one to the right; leaves me cold even reading you as a person that professes to have "been there". I say if you had and knew the lesson you should have learned from your mother and for yourself, you would be less cruel and maybe more forgiving. Look at what you have with your 70k a year. That's small peanuts for you to put the actual figure out. To your so called wealth I say so what. "What does it profit a man....."

Many people don't have the education and it wouldn't have done them any good anyway. Many people are in circumstance that you don't see nor understand. Many people have little hope but you can sit and admonish and expect for them and know who they are? You - are - cruel. I look at your resume and think, "What a waste." Another one that looks down on those less fortunate and puts them in their place. Your lessons were wasted. :duel

 

[DeeJayH]

Even with your wonderful resume you have no clue. That you can look at this one and that one and label this one to the left; this one to the right; leaves me cold even reading you as a person that professes to have "been there". I say if you had and knew the lesson you should have learned from your mother and for yourself, you would be less cruel and maybe more forgiving. Look at what you have with your 70k a year. That's small peanuts for you to put the actual figure out. To your so called wealth I say so what. "What does it profit a man....."

Many people don't have the education and it wouldn't have done them any good anyway. Many people are in circumstance that you don't see nor understand. Many people have little hope but you can sit and admonish and expect for them and know who they are? You - are - cruel. I look at your resume and think, "What a waste." Another one that looks down on those less fortunate and puts them in their place. Your lessons were wasted. :duel

oh you forgot to blame me for winning lifes lottery while these poor bastards do nothing to get ahead
I am getting all weepy
and most of your comments reak of 'I am not a racist, i have a black friend'
its dribble.
I have gone from poor to well to do, to end up heavily in debt and starting over again from scratch
only to make it again and again
you may know poor people, but that does not mean you have a clue about the poor life decisions they make day in and day out
probably because you do the same, and than blame others for your lot in life
as far as somethign being wasted, I feel most of the aid programs on teh poor are wasted
All those Great Society plans, and the poor are still poor.
because insted of the people using the help to make a better life for themselves,
they sell themselves into indentured servitude, stuck on govt handouts
exchanging metal chains for welfare chains
why get a job when the evil govt will give me money and nice section 8 housing
why work hard to get ahead, when the evil govt will pay for my bare necessities
you go ahead and donate money to those losers at intersections looking for a handout
I will stick to giving them the Classifieds so they can find a job
or atleast use it to make a bed:lol:

 

[SKILMATIC]

Even with your wonderful resume you have no clue. That you can look at this one and that one and label this one to the left; this one to the right; leaves me cold even reading you as a person that professes to have "been there". I say if you had and knew the lesson you should have learned from your mother and for yourself, you would be less cruel and maybe more forgiving. Look at what you have with your 70k a year. That's small peanuts for you to put the actual figure out. To your so called wealth I say so what. "What does it profit a man....."

Many people don't have the education and it wouldn't have done them any good anyway. Many people are in circumstance that you don't see nor understand. Many people have little hope but you can sit and admonish and expect for them and know who they are? You - are - cruel. I look at your resume and think, "What a waste." Another one that looks down on those less fortunate and puts them in their place. Your lessons were wasted. :duel

Are you freaking kidding me? Are you sure your white? (Just a joke):lol:

I dont even know where to begin casue I know if I did I wouldnt be able to stop.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

You seem to be quite adept at half-truths yourself SD.


For New Orleans disaster response, Mayor Nagin had previously chosen the Superdome and the Convention Center. So far so good. The core problem with these two venues is that Mayor Nagin designated them as disaster sanctuaries and simply left it at that. He did not have them supplied with food and water, power generators, or security personel. Mayor Nagin was responsible under FEMA guidelines for having these assets in situ before disaster struck.

Another item of note is why was Mayor Nagin so tardy in issuing the citywide evacuation order? The US National Hurricane Center in Miami strongly advised the mayor on Friday afternoon to issue the order immediately. Mayor Nagin did not issue an evacuation order until Sunday morning!


The only problem here is your 'school bus' qualifier. In addition to school buses, New Orleans also had a substancial number of city transit buses and additionally, hundreds of tourist buses that could have been pressed into emergency service. Could have. Should have. Would have


The govornor of Louisana still refuses to relinquish emergency powers of management to Federal agencies.


Federal law and FEMA guidelines stipulate that state and local authorities have the principal responsibility in this regard, and must formally relinquish that vested authority before Federal authorities can take command. This government heirarchal arrangement is known as the formal COC... Chain of Command.

I would suggest that you take an unbiased hard look at the actions and in-actions of the state and local institutions in this regard before you unload on the federal problems. There is an abundance of blame to go around, and your politicizing the Katrina disaster while Hurricane Rita looms on the horizon seems to be a bit callous and ill-timed.

Of course, the city and state officials made plenty of mistakes. My only point in all of this is that the right wing seems to think that all the mistakes were on city and state officials. That is far from the truth. I think some of the things that the state and local officials did made sense at the time, but were in the end not the best of ideas. For example, they did not order an evacuation early on because they feared that if everyone evacuated at once, there would a problem like what Houston had in advance of Rita. NPR has hours upon hours of recorded meetings between state, local, and federal officials prior to the hurricane and afterwards. They are very enlightening. I think that once you hear them, you realize that the state asked FEMA for a lot of things that they did not get for over a week. In fact, I think once you hear them, you will see why Bush for the first time in his presidency, took responsibility for a failure of his administration. I don’t pay taxes to the state of Louisiana, but I do pay taxes to the federal government. In the last 4 years, we have invested almost 50 billion dollars a year in homeland security. When we tried to use that investment, as a nation we found that there was a lot to be desired to say the least.

Now, the Feds did a great job in advance of Hurricane Rita. The thing is though, by doing such a great job, they have shown what they could have done and should have done for Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.

There is nothing that is going to come of this that damages Bush other than it further hinders his agenda. The point of going after the Federal Government and blaming them for their failures is to hopefully prevent such abysmal performance in the future. By trying to lay the bulk of the blame on the state and local officials, what one is really doing is they are saying that the federal government did a great job. I dont think they did. I think they did a terrible job, and I think they can do a lot better.

 

[DeeJayH]

On the contrary, it is the Rep/cons who always say there was blame for everybody, it was the Dems/Libs trying to use this as a tool against bush that annoys rep/cons. Everybody screwed up, but most of the blame for loss of life lays on the state and local government

We have hurricanes in florida all the time, and yet nothing even close to what happened in NO has happened here, since i moved here in '01.
And Texas went well
So it just shows me that the problems are more in the local & state level
and thant he feds had to clean up after their mess.
If texas and florida were just as bad, it would have been more ammo for the anti bushies
but it has been blown way out of proportion because as usual the dems/libs have nothing to offer but criticism and lay in wait for anythign and everything to blame bush for
I have yet to read or hear any Rep/Con say Bush/Feds did nothing wrong

But if you were level headed you would realize that the locals screwed up HUGE
and the feds were not capable of fulfilling the needs after the fact
NO failed to issue evacuations soon enough
LA gov did not accept National Guard from other places earlier enough
Somebody would not let all those Red Cross trucks FEMA sent to reach the poor bastards in the Convention Center or Superdome
Why
Because they wanted them to come out, not stay there

NO has had a LOCAL problem for decades, they neglected to address it
So it was a much worse situation for the feds to come in and clean up

Locals screwed up HUGE
State screwed up HUGE
Feds did not get in quick enough to clean up the mess left as a result of the absolute INCOMPETENCE of one of the most corrupt states in our nation

Just more proof if you leave things to be taken care of by the government, you are screwed
if you are poor you are screwed
get an education, get a job and quit depending on everybody else to take care of your problems

 

[ALiberalModerate]

On the contrary, it is the Rep/cons who always say there was blame for everybody, it was the Dems/Libs trying to use this as a tool against bush that annoys rep/cons. Everybody screwed up, but most of the blame for loss of life lays on the state and local government

We have hurricanes in florida all the time, and yet nothing even close to what happened in NO has happened here, since i moved here in '01.
And Texas went well
So it just shows me that the problems are more in the local & state level
and thant he feds had to clean up after their mess.
If texas and florida were just as bad, it would have been more ammo for the anti bushies
but it has been blown way out of proportion because as usual the dems/libs have nothing to offer but criticism and lay in wait for anythign and everything to blame bush for
I have yet to read or hear any Rep/Con say Bush/Feds did nothing wrong

But if you were level headed you would realize that the locals screwed up HUGE
and the feds were not capable of fulfilling the needs after the fact
NO failed to issue evacuations soon enough
LA gov did not accept National Guard from other places earlier enough
Somebody would not let all those Red Cross trucks FEMA sent to reach the poor bastards in the Convention Center or Superdome
Why
Because they wanted them to come out, not stay there

NO has had a LOCAL problem for decades, they neglected to address it
So it was a much worse situation for the feds to come in and clean up

Locals screwed up HUGE
State screwed up HUGE
Feds did not get in quick enough to clean up the mess left as a result of the absolute INCOMPETENCE of one of the most corrupt states in our nation

Just more proof if you leave things to be taken care of by the government, you are screwed
if you are poor you are screwed
get an education, get a job and quit depending on everybody else to take care of your problems

See what I mean?

As I have said before, these guys would blame Davy Crocket for not holding the Alamo if it helped their guy look better. No doubt about it, the local government made mistakes, but they were overwhelmed. Florida and Texas dont have near the issues to deal with that a city below sea level has. There is no comparison. The problem is, there are those on the right that will never just come out and say that even though the state and local governments screwed up and did a bad job, that the Bush administation did a terrible job as well just as bad of a job. Except its really worse because the state and local governments did not have the benefit of 50 billion a year to invest in being more prepared. Absolutely terrible and their is no excuse for it and everytime you guys make excuses for them, what you are doing is belittling this nation by saying that a terrible job is the best we can do.

 

[DeeJayH]

See what I mean?

As I have said before, these guys would blame Davy Crocket for not holding the Alamo if it helped their guy look better. No doubt about it, the local government made mistakes, but they were overwhelmed. Florida and Texas dont have near the issues to deal with that a city below sea level has. There is no comparison. The problem is, there are those on the right that will never just come out and say that even though the state and local governments screwed up and did a bad job, that the Bush administation did a terrible job as well just as bad of a job. Except its really worse because the state and local governments did not have the benefit of 50 billion a year to invest in being more prepared. Absolutely terrible and their is no excuse for it and everytime you guys make excuses for them, what you are doing is belittling this nation by saying that a terrible job is the best we can do.

Oh i see, so if we dont jump on your bandwagon and say it is ALL dubyas fault, we are making excuses for him
see how this mixes with your Kool aid sir

if the locals put out the evacuation earlier there would not have been such a tragedy
If the locals had used the Buses (school, public, charter, etc) amtrak etc.... it would not of been so bad
if the locals put food and water in the 'evac zones of last resort' it would not have been so bad
if the locals had let food and water be brought in by the red cross it would not have been so bad
I doubt anybody could have been prepared to clean up after such a disasterous job done at the LOCAL level

ATTENTION ALL KNUCKLEHEADs
if you live below sealevel, and a hurricane is coming
get the **** out or DIE for being an idiot

 

[gordontravels]

The local government blew it.

The State government blew it.

The Federal Government blew it.

And... all of these folks are Republicans and Democrats and therefore go back as far as you want in history and ask yourself - who was in charge. If you come up with the answer "Republicans and Democrats" you have the answer to who is in charge and who is at fault.

Katrina was twice the storm of Rita. Katrina hit a city on the gulf built below sea level.

Local government was first to have responsibility and they didn't do right by their people. There's where the most deaths came from.

State government didn't do what they should have and the Governor of Louisiana has admitted that so there is no arguement there.

The Federal Government wasn't prepared for what was the largest modern disaster to hit this country under any of the last 11 presidents.

Katrina showed each and every facet of government what was needed. Rita showed that lessons were either learned (Feds) or that local governments were more prepared in Texas than in Louisiana. One death so far from Rita tends to tell the truth of the situation. That is unless you look at the flooding in New Orleans but then that is a city built below sea level on the Gulf of Mexico in the path of the largest storms on earth. Not too smart.

Florida, Texas, North and South Carolina have proven that they are more prepared and have been more prepared than Louisiana. If we all take anything from this maybe it should be that our Governments (plural) have learned and will be more prepared in the future.

If not, we have plenty of righty/lefty, Republican/Democrats to blame. Don't we. :duel

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Oh i see, so if we dont jump on your bandwagon and say it is ALL dubyas fault, we are making excuses for him
see how this mixes with your Kool aid sir

if the locals put out the evacuation earlier there would not have been such a tragedy
If the locals had used the Buses (school, public, charter, etc) amtrak etc.... it would not of been so bad
if the locals put food and water in the 'evac zones of last resort' it would not have been so bad
if the locals had let food and water be brought in by the red cross it would not have been so bad
I doubt anybody could have been prepared to clean up after such a disasterous job done at the LOCAL level

ATTENTION ALL KNUCKLEHEADs
if you live below sealevel, and a hurricane is coming
get the **** out or DIE for being an idiot

I never said it was all Bush's fault. I merely am pointing out that he screwed up every bit as much as the local and state officials did. Being that we have given his government around 50 billion a year for homeland security, I don't think that we ought to be making any excuses for him. There are those who say that the governor and the mayor should resign. I don't think they should, but if they should, then the president ought to as well. That said, I think its ridiculous to argue that any of them should.

 

[SKILMATIC]

How come I dont see you mental disorders trying to argue in the mayor nagin thread? Is this all you have got is rhetoric? And mental case catastrophic talking points? OF COURSE WE CAN ARGUE AGAINST OPINIONS ALL DAY BUT WHERE ARE THE FACTS?

 

[gordontravels]

I never said it was all Bush's fault. I merely am pointing out that he screwed up every bit as much as the local and state officials did. Being that we have given his government around 50 billion a year for homeland security, I don't think that we ought to be making any excuses for him. There are those who say that the governor and the mayor should resign. I don't think they should, but if they should, then the president ought to as well. That said, I think its ridiculous to argue that any of them should.

I agree with this post that all have responsibility for what went wrong. I would point out that the deaths or at the very least, the vast majority of the deaths could have been prevented by local and State governments because they are the before and first responders and certainly wouldn't ever let the Federal Government come in and dictate terms sometimes even after the disaster. They are the ones on the ground before the hurricane, during and immediately after.

I would like to point out that millions upon millions of dollars have been given to Louisiana and the City of New Orleans for not only FEMA and Homeland Security operations but also directly from the Army Corps of Engineers for improvements to levees, pumps and planning by state and local officials. Approximately 2 1/2 million went to a fountain in the City of New Orleans. I think that if we dig up investigations then we need to go back and see where the money went that was appropriated for things that could have helped when Katrina hit. We also need to wonder what our Congressmen/women and Senators have to do with not being prepared; they appropriate the funds in the first place.

Just in the nature of your post you agree that Republicans and Democrats both blew it big time in the before, during and aftermath of Katrina. To see it any other way would be pure fantasy; don't you agree? :duel