More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations

[scottyz]

So you haven't seen proof, so what. The emergency evacuation plan called for thier use, Nagin was asked and he stated the reason they were not used was NOT because the weren't available for his use but because 1. He had no drivers and 2. He wanted Greyhound Buses.

I've never seen him discuss the school buses at all.

The drivers should have been part of his evacuation plan and the evacuation would have occoured long before the levy was breeched, before any flooding.

Police would have been part of the evacuation plan too, but 1/3 of his force left the city. Why would bus drivers stick around?

 

[MSgt]

First off GySgt, Thank you, not only for serving our country, but for having a voice here on the board to add knowledge from the inside to situations.

I read all the posts here and found a couple of bits of information missing.

The government of LA department of Homeland Security, denied the Red Cross entrance to the state prior to and after Katrina because they did not want the Superdome to become a "magnet for the needy" The Red Cross was ready and waiting at the borders.

In regards to the money given the state by the Clinton administration. And the criticism that President Bush has recieved for reducing the latest request for federal monies.

President Clinton gave LA 14? million for the repairs of the levees. Instead of putting the money to the use it was requested for, the state put that money into the convention center expansions and the repair of the Mardi Gras statue. The Democratic run government proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they would put the money where they wanted to.
When the again asked for federal money for the levees, President Bush looked at their track record regarding spending and found them sadly lacking. He reduced their request by approx 10 million and is now getting hit for his decision.

How does one feel, when approached by the homeless man asking for money for food, gives the man money so that he may eat, and follows him to the liquor store? Same misuse of funds.

Could any local/state government been prepared? Absolutely! Look at Governor Bush in Florida. Florida is the expert on dealing with hurricanes. Look at other Atlantic coast states. South Carolina had to deal with Hugo. The Outer Banks of North Carolina have been destroyed more than once. Never before has there been so much passing the buck when a natural disaster has occured.

Lets remember this was an act of nature. Not an attack from a foreign country. This was not 911 where there was no warning. Shoot, Mayor Juliani (sp) handled the situation better with no advanced warning than the ,forgive me, idiots. of the LA government didi.

Apathy was the problem in LA. The mayor of NO knew that the levees were in danger of breaking. But to save his own neck, because he didn't use his allowence properly the last time, he will turn the blame away from himself.

Want to blame someone for what happened in NO? Blame those who did not wish to deal with the reality of the damage that needed to be repaired to those levees. Blame those who put tourist dollars ahead of their own citizens.

Great post. The more days that pass and the more the whole situation is looked at, the more stupid people look for their earlier blaming and panicking.

 

[scottyz]

The government of LA department of Homeland Security, denied the Red Cross entrance to the state prior to and after Katrina because they did not want the Superdome to become a "magnet for the needy" The Red Cross was ready and waiting at the borders.

Last week, the Red Cross, which by law works under FEMA during national states of emergency, agreed that officials on the ground in New Orleans were taking the correct course of action in requesting or demanding that relief workers not enter the city before and after the storm. In a September 2 interview, Evans explained to CNN host Larry King that the Red Cross was not in New Orleans because "it was not safe to be in the city, and it's not been safe to go back into the city ... We were asked -- directed -- by the National Guard and the city and the state emergency management not to go into New Orleans because it was not safe."

It was the federal government that was primarily responsible for coordinating operations, including the activities of the Red Cross. Presumably, if FEMA had deemed it necessary for the Red Cross to enter New Orleans, the agency could have intervened with state authorities at any time. Both the federal Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP) and the Red Cross' charter clearly place the Red Cross under the purview of FEMA. Further, the response plan stipulates that federal agencies should strive for full coordination with state officials but not allow such coordination to "impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources."

According to the federal charter of the American Red Cross, the organization has "the legal status of 'a federal instrumentality' " with "responsibilities delegated to it by the Federal government." Listed among these responsibilities is "to maintain a system of domestic and international disaster relief, including mandated responsibilities under the Federal Response Plan coordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509090002

 

[gordontravels]

Nagin used city buses to move people. I've never seen any proof those school buses belong to the city or that they even ran. Buses don't drive themselves anyways.

Sometimes I really have to wonder about things I read here.

If Nagin used city buses to move people they ran right? They had someone to drive them right? The school year had started in New Orleans. The school buses ran and had drivers, right? Aren't we talking about something that would be done BEFORE the hurricane hit? Is your arguement really that "Buses don't drive themselves anyways."?

Can't you at least see that this is why there are disaster plans? New Orleans had one and the Mayor ignored it. If FEMA was slow after the storm it was the storm itself, during the storm, that killed the vast majority of the people that died.

Mayor Nagin indeed had "his" (he's the chief official in the city during an emergency) buses take people to the Superdome where again, he wasn't prepared. Food, water and Law Enforcement were not there in any numbers for the over 30 thousand people. 30 thousand. Think they would be hungry or maybe thirsty? The Mayor wouldn't let the Red Cross bring in food or water because he said he didn't want to attract more people to the Superdome.

I just have to ask. Is it your political affiliation, your political philosophy, your hatred of the current administration or just what is it that makes you so blind? :duel

 

[scottyz]

Sometimes I really have to wonder about things I read here.

If Nagin used city buses to move people they ran right? They had someone to drive them right? The school year had started in New Orleans. The school buses ran and had drivers, right? Aren't we talking about something that would be done BEFORE the hurricane hit? Is your arguement really that "Buses don't drive themselves anyways."?

Were there enough bus drivers? Did the buses belong to the city? If even the cops left the city why would the bus drivers stick around?

Can't you at least see that this is why there are disaster plans? New Orleans had one and the Mayor ignored it. If FEMA was slow after the storm it was the storm itself, during the storm, that killed the vast majority of the people that died.

Mayor Nagin indeed had "his" (he's the chief official in the city during an emergency) buses take people to the Superdome where again, he wasn't prepared. Food, water and Law Enforcement were not there in any numbers for the over 30 thousand people. 30 thousand. Think they would be hungry or maybe thirsty? The Mayor wouldn't let the Red Cross bring in food or water because he said he didn't want to attract more people to the Superdome.

Lots of claims but no web links.. The plan established during FEMAs hurricane Pam study was to take the people that couldn't get out to the Superdome. FEMA would be on the ground within 48 hours to assist. It's not Nagins fault 1/3 of his police force turned in their badges.

Got any proof it was specifically Nagin that barred the red cross from entering and for the reason you stated. If FEMA had wanted the Red Cross there they could have overruled the decision of any state official.

I just have to ask. Is it your political affiliation, your political philosophy, your hatred of the current administration or just what is it that makes you so blind?

I could ask the same thing of you.

Do you use that font and color to purposefully make it hard to quote you?

 

[MSgt]

"Lots of claims but no web links.."


You are aware that life does exist outside of the Web, right?

Every news channel is reporting on the bigger picture now and showing complete neglect from the Governor and the Mayor prior to and immediately after the storm. The Mayor is even screwing up again by allowing people to walk amongst what the military and the professional HAZMAT crews deem as unsafe. He is not concerned about individual safeties. He is concerned about his Mardi Gras and the revinues involved. The whole "Republians are wrong and Democrats are right" thing is played out. Just let it go.....

 

[gordontravels]

Quotes from scottyz are in black while mine are a beautiful blue: Were there enough bus drivers? Did the buses belong to the city? If even the cops left the city why would the bus drivers stick around?

The majority of the 25% of the police force (cowards under oath) that left the city did so after the storm swept through. The buses were sitting in dry lots with drivers at home days before the storm got there and the federal government had already declared a state of emergency. Time for the Mayor to act. Belong to the city? The mayor can commandeer any transport in his jurisdiction. Don't you watch tv?

Lots of claims but no web links.. The plan established during FEMAs hurricane Pam study was to take the people that couldn't get out to the Superdome. FEMA would be on the ground within 48 hours to assist. It's not Nagins fault 1/3 of his police force turned in their badges.

Again it seems, although I can't believe it, that you haven't even been watching tv. The plan not only called for the Mayor to get his charges to the Superdome but to provide food, water and security for them. Well? And if it isn't Nagin's fault that his police force is so unprepared and undisciplined with him as their leader are you still going to blame President Bush or God for anything?

Got any proof it was specifically Nagin that barred the red cross from entering and for the reason you stated. If FEMA had wanted the Red Cross there they could have overruled the decision of any state official.

Yeah, I don't want to harp on it cause it's not good for you but WATCH THE DANG TV; it has been reported over and over. Are you aware that what you propose the Federal Government do here is illegal? The Federal Government can overrule the decision of ANY state official? Oh wait, this is sarcasm right? The head of FEMA is going to walk into the Governor's office or the Mayor and tell them what to do? You're kidding aren't you? You know they can't don't you? Or, do you?

Mayor Nagin is calling for his folks to move back in starting at the end of this week. No running water, no sewer, no facilities, just trucks. The new head of FEMA, Admiral Allen says the mayor needs to consider e-coli and coloform bacteria that can kill people if ingested, inhaled or allowed to enter a small cut. The Admiral says the Mayor should take things slower and be more careful and he is backed up by the Red Cross and the Center for Disease Control.

Admiral Allen also admits it is the Mayor that has the final word. Under your senario couldn't the Admiral just bring in a battleship and tell the Mayor to shut the heck up? You know the Admiral can't tell the Mayor what to do don't you? Don't you?

Do you use that font and color to purposefully make it hard to quote you?

I wasn't aware that it made it hard on you, I mean the color thing. I use my fonts and colors because I want to and the forum provides for them. The forum even made it easier to use them recently and I want to thank them. Otherwise, like most of your other quotes, this one doesn't make much sense either. OH WAIT I GET IT. You have a color TV. :duel

 

[scottyz]

"Lots of claims but no web links.."


You are aware that life does exist outside of the Web, right?

Every news channel is reporting on the bigger picture now and showing complete neglect from the Governor and the Mayor prior to and immediately after the storm. The Mayor is even screwing up again by allowing people to walk amongst what the military and the professional HAZMAT crews deem as unsafe. He is not concerned about individual safeties. He is concerned about his Mardi Gras and the revinues involved. The whole "Republians are wrong and Democrats are right" thing is played out. Just let it go.....

Surely it wont be hard for you to find web links if that's the case.

 

[scottyz]

Quotes from scottyz are in black while mine are a beautiful blue: Were there enough bus drivers? Did the buses belong to the city? If even the cops left the city why would the bus drivers stick around?

The majority of the 25% of the police force (cowards under oath) that left the city did so after the storm swept through. The buses were sitting in dry lots with drivers at home days before the storm got there and the federal government had already declared a state of emergency. Time for the Mayor to act. Belong to the city? The mayor can commandeer any transport in his jurisdiction. Don't you watch tv?

Lots of claims but no web links.. The plan established during FEMAs hurricane Pam study was to take the people that couldn't get out to the Superdome. FEMA would be on the ground within 48 hours to assist. It's not Nagins fault 1/3 of his police force turned in their badges.

Again it seems, although I can't believe it, that you haven't even been watching tv. The plan not only called for the Mayor to get his charges to the Superdome but to provide food, water and security for them. Well? And if it isn't Nagin's fault that his police force is so unprepared and undisciplined with him as their leader are you still going to blame President Bush or God for anything?

Got any proof it was specifically Nagin that barred the red cross from entering and for the reason you stated. If FEMA had wanted the Red Cross there they could have overruled the decision of any state official.

Yeah, I don't want to harp on it cause it's not good for you but WATCH THE DANG TV; it has been reported over and over. Are you aware that what you propose the Federal Government do here is illegal? The Federal Government can overrule the decision of ANY state official? Oh wait, this is sarcasm right? The head of FEMA is going to walk into the Governor's office or the Mayor and tell them what to do? You're kidding aren't you? You know they can't don't you? Or, do you?

Mayor Nagin is calling for his folks to move back in starting at the end of this week. No running water, no sewer, no facilities, just trucks. The new head of FEMA, Admiral Allen says the mayor needs to consider e-coli and coloform bacteria that can kill people if ingested, inhaled or allowed to enter a small cut. The Admiral says the Mayor should take things slower and be more careful and he is backed up by the Red Cross and the Center for Disease Control.

Admiral Allen also admits it is the Mayor that has the final word. Under your senario couldn't the Admiral just bring in a battleship and tell the Mayor to shut the heck up? You know the Admiral can't tell the Mayor what to do don't you? Don't you?

Do you use that font and color to purposefully make it hard to quote you?

I wasn't aware that it made it hard on you, I mean the color thing. I use my fonts and colors because I want to and the forum provides for them. The forum even made it easier to use them recently and I want to thank them. Otherwise, like most of your other quotes, this one doesn't make much sense either. OH WAIT I GET IT. You have a color TV. :duel

So no links? Just baseless claims. Guess I should just turn on the TV and pray. Which non-biased station am I to watch?

 

[Keeper of the Phoenix]

I read the link you provided.

I searched the Red Cross press releases on their sight and found nothing but positive response times and mobilizations.

What I think I see is that you are supporting the decision that the mayor of NO and the governor of LA made to,willingly starve, dehydrate,deny medical care, cots, blankets, baby formula, and basic shelter to people who were waiting helplessly at the Superdome ?????? Did you miss the sights of old people in wheel chairs dieing from the heat and lack of water? What about the babies, infants, toddlers, crying from the misery of 90+ degree heat, no shade, and nothing to drink or eat?

Or was CNN too busy starting the blame game to show the reality of the human suffering occurring at the Dome and on the streets of NO?

Politics aside.

From everything I read on the Red Cross site, thousands of workers, those who put their private lives on hold, to offer survival necessities, comfort, and above all unconditional love to those who have suffered, were devastated and frustrated by their inability to respond.

Politics doesn't have a place where human suffering is occurring due to a natural disaster.

I wonder how many people who were stranded at the Superdome died from lack of water and shelter because these public officials decided to play God with their lives.

The desire to evacuate the Dome was indeed correct for it was a last resort shelter.

But to forsake the basic survival needs of the citizenry by denying access to those who could provide temporary relief was totally inhumane.

 

[scottyz]

I read the link you provided.

I searched the Red Cross press releases on their sight and found nothing but positive response times and mobilizations.

What I think I see is that you are supporting the decision that the mayor of NO and the governor of LA made to,willingly starve, dehydrate,deny medical care, cots, blankets, baby formula, and basic shelter to people who were waiting helplessly at the Superdome ?????? Did you miss the sights of old people in wheel chairs dieing from the heat and lack of water? What about the babies, infants, toddlers, crying from the misery of 90+ degree heat, no shade, and nothing to drink or eat?

Of course the Red Cross is going to pat themselves on the back. Just like they did when they made off with donations slated for 9/11 victims.

People were told to bring food for a 3-5 day stay, were they not? What about the food the superdome officials kept hidden? Why didn't FEMA overrule the state Gov. decision? Perhaps they thought it was too unsafe as well? If the state government had been overruled by FEMA and the Red Cross was allowed to come in and got shot up by looters, who then would you blame for their deaths? Where were the first reponders during all of this? Iraq! Bush already took responsibility for the **** ups so there really isn't any point in continueing this conversation. Tootaloo.

 

[gordontravels]

So no links? Just baseless claims. Guess I should just turn on the TV and pray. Which non-biased station am I to watch?

Makes no difference the bias of the outlet; MSNBC, FNC, NBC, CNN - all have had reports, discussions and shouting matches for nearly two weeks. Even the most casual visitor would have found it unless you watch maybe CBS who would possibly not report even the obvious. The key word I use here is obvious and I see you giving opinion and quoted material that "someone" said all the time. Just watch the television for a little while, not a lot and you couldn't miss this stuff.

Just answer one of my points. You do know that the Federal Government can't call the shots in Louisiana or New Orleans don't you? This isn't a baseless claim. As for your religious demeanor just turning on your tv for a while should do it. :duel

 

[Keeper of the Phoenix]

Which would you carry out of your home?

3-5 days worth of food

or

a child?

 

[MSgt]

Which would you carry out of your home?

3-5 days worth of food

or

a child?

The answer is both. A baby will cradle in your arms or sit upon your hip and a backpack will hold supplies.

...of course, I have survival instincts. One could attribute that to my training, but I was a Boy Scout long before the Corps. The point is, the average American citizen has no survival instincts or preparation skills. We live in a society, where the average American believes that since he pays taxes, the government will be there to wipe his buttock. Our governmnent has proven time and again that it will be there, but in the end it is a self help world and no one is responsible for you...but you.

 

[ludahai]

Of If the state government had been overruled by FEMA and the Red Cross was allowed to come in and got shot up by looters, who then would you blame for their deaths?

LEt's not forget that the state government CAN'T be overruled by FEMA. A little something known as federalism.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Re:

More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations

This is more proof to back my fact that liberalism is a mental disorder. :lol:

You cant be serious about this statement. So I suppose you would walk into the gates of hell if al sharpton did it too? You must also beleive that he suggested that the 20ft whole in the levies was casue by racist white people that blew up the levy to make that hole so that it would destroy the black parts of new orleans? Simply amusing. Mabe you should listen to cochran too. Cause OJ could never be guilty of any crime :lol: .

 

[MSgt]

Re:

This is more proof to back my fact that liberalism is a mental disorder. :lol:

You cant be serious about this statement. So I suppose you would walk into the gates of hell if al sharpton did it too? You must also beleive that he suggested that the 20ft whole in the levies was casue by racist white people that blew up the levy to make that hole so that it would destroy the black parts of new orleans? Simply amusing. Mabe you should listen to cochran too. Cause OJ could never be guilty of any crime :lol: .

I think OJ blew the levies. shhhhh. Pass it on.

 

[ludahai]

Re:

I think OJ blew the levies. shhhhh. Pass it on.

Gee, and I thought David Duke did it!

 

[akyron]

From what I understand, city buses were used to move people to the Superdome, NOT out of harms way. I don't know what the legal relationship is between city/parish and school districts in Louisiana, but in an emergency plan, the school buses certainly CAN be utilized in an emergency. As for drivers, should be addressed in an emergency plan.

I just saw news on TV that there is another tropical storm that could make its way through the Florida Strait in a couple of days and become a hurricane in the Gulf. Let's hope it doesn't go anywhere NEAR New Orleans.

Id prefer it go to NO since its destroyed anyway and the majority of the population is away as opposed to a populated thriving area. We will see. Its crossing the Keys soon.

 

[ludahai]

Id prefer it go to NO since its destroyed anyway and the majority of the population is away as opposed to a populated thriving area. We will see. Its crossing the Keys soon.

I disagree. New Orleans is already in bad shape. WHat will another hit do to it? Other areas on the Gulf are better able to handle the situation (and quite likely have better evacuation plans in place) than New Orleans was able to. Of course, we don't want ANY PLACE to have to deal with it. Let's just hope that this storm doesn't turn into a Cat 3 or worse.

 

[akyron]

I've never seen him discuss the school buses at all.


Police would have been part of the evacuation plan too, but 1/3 of his force left the city. Why would bus drivers stick around?

Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin


they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

-----

He made a serious mistake in not using the buses that were available. Procuring the greyhounds was a good idea but he should have used all his resources.

I see GySgt and Teach have explained most of the problems already so Ill leave it at that for now.

The law that gives state and local authority in dire situations probably needs a little work. It appears that part of the problem is the mayor and Governor did not realize the extent of their authority.
Ask and you shall receive.
Some changes are sure to be coming over this whole mess.

 

[akyron]

I disagree. New Orleans is already in bad shape. WHat will another hit do to it? QUOTE]


I heard Katrina was downgraded to cat 4 just as it hit. What ive seen there is just shambles anyway. Lots of is going to need to be bulldozed and the city is going to need to be partially razed to be raised above sea level anyway.
A million people already evacuated out of there. Making another million people take off is just ouch. It does not matter what we think or say anyway about this. Rita is going to have the final say as to who else has to sleep at my house this weekend.

:/

 

[ludahai]

The law that gives state and local authority in dire situations probably needs a little work. It appears that part of the problem is the mayor and Governor did not realize the extent of their authority.
Ask and you shall receive.
Some changes are sure to be coming over this whole mess.

In my opinion, any law that gives MORE authority to the national government at the expense of state and local governments is a step in the WRONG direction.

 

[ludahai]

I heard Katrina was downgraded to cat 4 just as it hit. What ive seen there is just shambles anyway. Lots of is going to need to be bulldozed and the city is going to need to be partially razed to be raised above sea level anyway.
A million people already evacuated out of there. Making another million people take off is just ouch. It does not matter what we think or say anyway about this. Rita is going to have the final say as to who else has to sleep at my house this weekend.

:/

Rita could to a heck of a lot MORE damage than Katrina even if it hits New Orleans at a Cat 3. The levees certainly can't take another blow, many buildings that weren't lost with Katrina COULD be lost with Rita. Katrina softened the city, Rita could wipe it off the proverbial map.

 

[cnredd]

In my opinion, any law that gives MORE authority to the national government at the expense of state and local governments is a step in the WRONG direction.

Unless, of course, it makes Bush look bad...Then it's A-Okay...:roll:

Rita could to a heck of a lot MORE damage than Katrina even if it hits New Orleans at a Cat 3. The levees certainly can't take another blow, many buildings that weren't lost with Katrina COULD be lost with Rita. Katrina softened the city, Rita could wipe it off the proverbial map.

I'm split on this....Wouldn't "Rita" cleanse the city and dilute the sewage?