• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,307
Reaction score
13,540
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations:

  • The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans made a huge mistake by moving people to the Superdome. The fact of the matter is, if those people had not been moved to and encouraged to go to the Superdome, the majority would have probably perished in the hurricane and directly after when the levees failed and the city was flooded. It was probably the best move made by any level of government prior to the hurricane.
  • The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans should have used some “2000” school buses to evacuate the poor, elderly, and disabled. There are a few problems with that assertion though.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]134,000 people were left to be evacuated.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The city did not have 2000 school buses, it had 324 school buses.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Out of those 324 school buses the city had at its disposal, 70 were broken down.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]This leaves 254 school buses the city had at its disposal.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If all of those school buses were used to evacuate the poor, the elderly, and the disabled, less than 10,000 additional people could have been evacuated.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]So still over 120,000 people would have been left in the city.

  • The radical right claims that the governor of Louisiana could have requested additional National Guard troops, but did not. This is a complete fabrication. The Governor of Louisiana asked for additional units from other states on Sunday before the Hurricane, that request was not approved by the Whitehouse until late Thursday night after the hurricane.
Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12551986.htm

  • The radical right claims that the Bush Administration did not have the authority to intervene in the days after the hurricane. This is yet another complete fabrication by the radical right. We now know that the Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, actually delayed the Federal Response.
WASHINGTON - The federal official with the power to mobilize a massive federal response to Hurricane Katrina was Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, not the former FEMA chief who was relieved of his duties and resigned earlier this week, federal documents reviewed by Knight Ridder show.
Even before the storm struck the Gulf Coast, Chertoff could have ordered federal agencies into action without any request from state or local officials. Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown had only limited authority to do so until about 36 hours after the storm hit, when Chertoff designated him as the "principal federal official" in charge of the storm.
As thousands of hurricane victims went without food, water and shelter in the days after Katrina's early morning Aug. 29 landfall, critics assailed Brown for being responsible for delays that might have cost hundreds of lives.
But Chertoff - not Brown - was in charge of managing the national response to a catastrophic disaster, according to the National Response Plan, the federal government's blueprint for how agencies will handle major natural disasters or terrorist incidents. An order issued by President Bush in 2003 also assigned that responsibility to the homeland security director.
But according to a memo obtained by Knight Ridder, Chertoff didn't shift that power to Brown until late afternoon or evening on Aug. 30, about 36 hours after Katrina hit Louisiana and Mississippi. That same memo suggests that Chertoff may have been confused about his lead role in disaster response and that of his department.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT]
 

teacher

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
30
Location
Nomad.Got a couch,beer,meat,cute daughters,Batman
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
SouthernDemocrat said:
More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations:

  • The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans made a huge mistake by moving people to the Superdome. The fact of the matter is, if those people had not been moved to and encouraged to go to the Superdome, the majority would have probably perished in the hurricane and directly after when the levees failed and the city was flooded. It was probably the best move made by any level of government prior to the hurricane.
  • The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans should have used some “2000” school buses to evacuate the poor, elderly, and disabled. There are a few problems with that assertion though.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]134,000 people were left to be evacuated.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The city did not have 2000 school buses, it had 324 school buses.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Out of those 324 school buses the city had at its disposal, 70 were broken down.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]This leaves 254 school buses the city had at its disposal.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If all of those school buses were used to evacuate the poor, the elderly, and the disabled, less than 10,000 additional people could have been evacuated.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]So still over 120,000 people would have been left in the city.

  • The radical right claims that the governor of Louisiana could have requested additional National Guard troops, but did not. This is a complete fabrication. The Governor of Louisiana asked for additional units from other states on Sunday before the Hurricane, that request was not approved by the Whitehouse until late Thursday night after the hurricane.


http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12551986.htm

  • The radical right claims that the Bush Administration did not have the authority to intervene in the days after the hurricane. This is yet another complete fabrication by the radical right. We now know that the Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, actually delayed the Federal Response.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT]
So you use the buses to remove the infirm to Baton Rouge. Then turn around and get more. And again. and again. your premise is weak. You spurn logic to heap blame on the Republicans. The problem is people with the "it can't be done" attitude like you were in charge. Something can always be done. Again, not my fault so many healthy people spent days standing on an over pass. They were just stupid. That's all.
 

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,307
Reaction score
13,540
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
teacher said:
So you use the buses to remove the infirm to Baton Rouge. Then turn around and get more. And again. and again. your premise is weak. You spurn logic to heap blame on the Republicans. The problem is people with the "it can't be done" attitude like you were in charge. Something can always be done. Again, not my fault so many healthy people spent days standing on an over pass. They were just stupid. That's all.
I agree that the infirmed should have been moved to Baton Rouge if at all possible. However, you have to realize, Baton Rouge is 80 miles away. By school bus, you are talking 2 hours each way. When you consider the massive amount of traffic getting out of New Orleans, at best, they could have made one trip.

Face it, those school busses should have been used, but it would not have changed things that much if they were.

This was a federal disaster, the federal government and its vast resources is the only government entity capable of dealing with a disaster like this. Its why we pay taxes, its why we have invested nearly 50 billion a year in homeland security since 9/11.
 
Last edited:

IValueFreedom

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
168
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
The superdome wasn't as good a idea as you make it out to be. It was completely NOT thought thru. There wasn't any medical attention for anyone, beds to sleep in, or even FOOD AND WATER to live on. That was just crap. Total lack of planning.

The claim you made about most of them perishing if they weren't there... I can't image that to be true. Sure, some of them would have died... but half? I highly doubt it.

As for the buses... Ha!
School buses aren't the only type of buses that could be found within the city. City buses, passenger trains, greyhound buses, anything with wheels. It is just not smart thinking that there weren't enough modes of transportaion to get everyone out.

Besides, everyone knew that the levees breaking was going to be the worst part of this storm. Science proved that YEARS before Katrina ever formed. It is not unreasonable to have buses do MULTIPLE TRIPS. It's just common sense.

Evacuation grade: F

Now, as for the governor. Yes, the governor's office has stayed on message insisting that they were asking for federal aid before, during, and after the huricane hit. But, the federal government also has been staying on message that they hadn't been asked and that their hands were tied until Thurs. I personally think that's a load of **** from the administration, but at this point, there's still room for disagreement.

Rescue Effort: F

And finally Chertoff and Brown. Everyone knows they suck at their jobs. First real test and they fail miserably. These guys should walk around with a helmet on just so he doesn't hurt themselves.

Team Bush grade: F
 

IValueFreedom

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
168
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
teacher said:
You spurn logic to heap blame on the Republicans. The problem is people with the "it can't be done" attitude like you were in charge. Something can always be done. Again, not my fault so many healthy people spent days standing on an over pass. They were just stupid. That's all.
Two things:

1) The federal government used the "it can't be done" excuss for DAYS after the storm hit. They are the ones who used it more than anyone else. Sitting and waiting for beaucracy to take it's course before they sent in troops. It was PATHETIC.

2) I hope that you're not implying that those individuals that were stuck in New Orleans were just too stupid to leave. That's not the case at all. Not everyone has the ability to just pack up some suitcases, jump in their 50k SUV, afford the 40$+ in gas, and then check in to a hotel for a few days.

NOT EVERYONE HAS MONEY.
 

teacher

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
30
Location
Nomad.Got a couch,beer,meat,cute daughters,Batman
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
SouthernDemocrat said:
I agree that the infirmed should have been moved to Baton Rouge if at all possible. However, you have to realize, Baton Rouge is 80 miles away. By school bus, you are talking 2 hours each way. When you consider the massive amount of traffic getting out of New Orleans, at best, they could have made one trip.

Face it, those school busses should have been used, but it would not have changed things that much if they were.

This was a federal disaster, the federal government and its vast resources is the only government entity capable of dealing with a disaster like this. Its why we pay taxes, its why we have invested nearly 50 billion a year in homeland security since 9/11.
At any point in your life have you advocated personal responsibility? Class five hurricane is on the way. I'm gonna start filling everything that holds water up. And so on. Yea, you sit around and wait for someone to take care of you, I'm gonna go hunt gator. No wonder you vote Democratic.

While your busy throwing darts at the Bush picture. Use YOUR numbers of people, buses, and times to figure out how long to evacuate everyone from N.O. that was left. I did. I get, conservatively, 15,000 a day. And that's just with those 324 school buses. And remember, everyone you get out means less demands on the supplies for those left. Common friggin sense southern boy. Try it instead of finger pointing. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the Mayor and Governor weren't so inept.

What's gonna be fun is the investigation of where all the federal funds going to La. since the Clinton years went.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
23,722
Reaction score
8,409
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Why do you keep beating this up?

1) The President took responsibility for the Feds.

and

2) I just saw on TV that Blanco finally took reponsibility for not coordinating better in her state.

Go figure.....All the ignorant, emotional, panic stricken Americans and the blame frenzy media and politicians are looking more and more pathetic, because of how they were reacting.

Like I said before - On the Active military side, there was a Chain of Command and Control problem between us and FEMA and civilian agencies. I imagined it was like that at all levels and between all governments.

A lot of it also was a product of how our government is shaped, which is shaped to protect your civil liberties. We can't have U.S. Marines taking over for our local governments and patrolling through the streets of an American city shooting looters on world wide TV can we?
 
Last edited:

MSgt

Stabler Genius
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
23,722
Reaction score
8,409
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
"Now, as for the governor. Yes, the governor's office has stayed on message insisting that they were asking for federal aid before, during, and after the huricane hit. But, the federal government also has been staying on message that they hadn't been asked and that their hands were tied until Thurs. I personally think that's a load of **** from the administration, but at this point, there's still room for disagreement."


This proves that the average American civilian can not be satisfied. They cry about the "unconstitutionallity" of the Patriot Act. They cry about Federal Government intrusions of individual civil liberties. They cry about Federal Government intrusion into state business. But when a hurricane hits, the Federal Government is supposed to break all laws and procedures?

There is no doubt that aid did not come on time....but you can blame your system, which ensures your civil liberties, for that. People can't have it both ways.
 

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,307
Reaction score
13,540
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
teacher said:
At any point in your life have you advocated personal responsibility? Class five hurricane is on the way. I'm gonna start filling everything that holds water up. And so on. Yea, you sit around and wait for someone to take care of you, I'm gonna go hunt gator. No wonder you vote Democratic.

While your busy throwing darts at the Bush picture. Use YOUR numbers of people, buses, and times to figure out how long to evacuate everyone from N.O. that was left. I did. I get, conservatively, 15,000 a day. And that's just with those 324 school buses. And remember, everyone you get out means less demands on the supplies for those left. Common friggin sense southern boy. Try it instead of finger pointing. We wouldn't be having this conversation if the Mayor and Governor weren't so inept.

What's gonna be fun is the investigation of where all the federal funds going to La. since the Clinton years went.
Of course, I think that if you had the means to get yourself out, then you should have gotten yourself out. However, a very large percentage of those who were left did not have the means to get themselves out of town. No one likes taxes, but one of the things that I pay taxes for is for the federal government to protect its citizens and to help them in times of disaster. In fact, I think it’s an excellent investment of the tax dollars that I trust my country with. If for example we were invaded by a hostile nation and the locality I live in were under attack, I would hope that the federal government would respond quickly and efficiently to help protect my family and others in our community. I suppose that if the federal government did not come to our aid, I could take some “personal responsibility”, and arm myself with one of my hunting guns to defend my home and family and get others in my community to do the same, but it would be almost certain that we would be overwhelmed and that defending our community against a hostile nation would be beyond the capabilities of my local community, local government, and state government. What happened in New Orleans is that we had a Federal Disaster, not a state disaster, not a local disaster. This was not a small flood, a tornado, or a house fire, but rather, it was one of the largest natural disasters in our nation’s history. Dealing with that disaster and its aftermath was beyond the capabilities of local communities, local governments, and even the state level. The local government was able to successfully evacuate over 3/4s of the population of a major U.S. city, that when you think about it is a hell of an effort. Were mistakes made? Of course, lots of them. But they were overwhelmed as anyone would have been. The logical thing to do and what did save countless lives was to take those that were left in the city and get them to the Astrodome and Convention Centers. It was far from a perfect plan, but then again, its not like they had 50 billion dollars a year to put into disaster preparedness like the Federal Government has. So when you want to know why I am so much more angry at the failures of the federal government than the failures of the state and local governments, its because I as a taxpayer have paid the federal government for my entire working life no telling how many thousands of dollars to do a far better job than the job they did.
 
Last edited:

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,307
Reaction score
13,540
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
teacher said:
SouthernDemocrat said:
[/b]What happened in New Orleans is that we had a Federal Disaster, not a state disaster, not a local disaster.


teacher- If I were Mayor of N.O. this would be a non issue. We have nothing further to discuss.
Well, when you can't argue with facts and logic, you can always result to narcisim.:roll:
 

IValueFreedom

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
168
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
SouthernDemocrat said:
The local government was able to successfully evacuate over 3/4s of the population of a major U.S. city, that when you think about it is a hell of an effort.
I think you give local government WAY too much credit here. Saying that the local government successfully evacuated over 3/4 is pure crap. Virtually all of those 3/4 evacuated themselves. They listened to the weatherman, said "oh crap, let's go to a hotel" and left. Local government didn't do anything except say, "Please evacuate the city" and "Travel North or East as West is backed up."

You're right tho. That one statement asking people to leave the city and the other statement about which direction had the least traffic did take a hell of an effort.

It did take a whole lot of effort to transport that 3/4 of the population... oh wait... they found transportation on their own.
Well it did take a whole lot of effort to shelter them all... oh wait... they found shelter on their own (until days AFTER the storm).
Well... it did take a whole lot of effort to provide medical attention and food and water to these people too... oh wait... again on their own.
Hmm... yep. their local government must have pulled all nighters to acheive... oh wait... ignore all these "unimportant" factors.
 

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,307
Reaction score
13,540
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
IValueFreedom said:
I think you give local government WAY too much credit here. Saying that the local government successfully evacuated over 3/4 is pure crap. Virtually all of those 3/4 evacuated themselves. They listened to the weatherman, said "oh crap, let's go to a hotel" and left. Local government didn't do anything except say, "Please evacuate the city" and "Travel North or East as West is backed up."

You're right tho. That one statement asking people to leave the city and the other statement about which direction had the least traffic did take a hell of an effort.

It did take a whole lot of effort to transport that 3/4 of the population... oh wait... they found transportation on their own.
Well it did take a whole lot of effort to shelter them all... oh wait... they found shelter on their own (until days AFTER the storm).
Well... it did take a whole lot of effort to provide medical attention and food and water to these people too... oh wait... again on their own.
Hmm... yep. their local government must have pulled all nighters to acheive... oh wait... ignore all these "unimportant" factors.
Do you honestly believe that handling this disaster was within the capabilities of state and local governments?
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
23,722
Reaction score
8,409
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
SouthernDemocrat said:
teacher said:
Well, when you can't argue with facts and logic, you can always result to narcisim.:roll:
There are "facts and logic" all over the place. You are selecting to embrace only those that allow you to cast blame on the President. Regardless of where the Feds messed up, the state failed to meet it's mission.

Katrina proved to us all that our government system has too much red tape and bureacracy between it to allow an expedient operation within our borders for a disaster of this size. We are not a secular governmnet. We have 1 government overseeing 50 which in turn is overseeing 1000's. There was a Chain of Command and Control breakdown at all levels. These are "facts" and they are the real problems of what happened. This was bigger than just one man. Focusing on one individual in such grand partisan fashion will not fix the bigger issues involved.
 
Last edited:

MSgt

Stabler Genius
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
23,722
Reaction score
8,409
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
SouthernDemocrat said:
Do you honestly believe that handling this disaster was within the capabilities of state and local governments?

Absolutely not. This problem was bigger than what they could have reacted too. It demanded federal involvement, which got there late. Look at it this way...if the Feds had gotten there directly after the situation allowed, would we all be focusing on why so many people were left to die in the first place? Or would Louisiana's Democratic sponsership be scrambling all over the place, still pointing fingers outward (much like they are doing now.)
 

teacher

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
30
Location
Nomad.Got a couch,beer,meat,cute daughters,Batman
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Look what happened when Gen. Honore got out of the chopper. What if a person like him had been mayor?

Better yet. We all knew a cat 5 was gonna hit N.O. days in advance. If I were mayor.

You, go find 324 people who can drive. You, Police chief, I want armed officers here in 30 minutes , get your gun, go to the gas station, inform the owner we will pay him later. All you secretaries, go to stores and buy bull horns, you, come here and write this down, type it up, and give it to the secretaries when they get back with the bull horns, you, go commandeer water trucks from locale construction firms and fill with potable water, you go to the locale ford and Chevy dealers and go fill trucks up with canned goods from grocery stores, you, go to home depot and get generators, bring them to the dome, you, (to some I know who can handle it) take who and what you need, evacuate the hospitals to the hospital with the highest elevation, make sure the generators are working and full, you, go get a gas tanker, park it there, you, get flammable liquid pumps and bring to the gas truck, you, go get every gas can in all the auto stores and wal-marts, all of you, bring a cop with a gun to expedite the printing of bills to be paid later, you, go to the cigar store and get me a box of Padagas Black Labels, you get some people and get on the phone and call every nursing home in the city, find out how many we have to move, you, go tell that nice concrete high rise hotel they now have no vacancy's, everyone plug in and fully charge your cell phones, you, go to radio shack and clean them out of radios and batteries, get me the Governor on the line, and if she don't snap to get me the press, you, get work crews and surround all the pumps with sand bags, you, collect able bodied men as they come to the dome, tell them they are making 10 bucks an hour and bring them to home depot and load up with shovels and stuff, you, go get boats and keep an eye on the levies, you, go hire construction firms and have them move heavy equipment to high ground, you call greyhound and get them here, get me the head correctional officer in the state, tell him the other jails are gonna get some new inmates, you, go turn off all the gas lines,you, go get pacridge and have him show people how to boil water in a paper cup, you, go get bleach, you go get diapers, formula, wipes, and teddy bears, bring it to the dome, you, go get gas grills and steaks and coolers and beer, we are gonna be here a while.


You know what the real problem was. Politicians and college egg heads are in charge, you average crew from a good construction firm could make this all happen. But they just have experience and not pieces of paper that says they are smart. All you blue collar guys out there who has ever had a good boss or foreman, is it not how this works every friggn day? Will we learn from this, probably not.

Now if I can come up with all that in the time it took to type it, why didn't the mayor who had days do better. Bush should have known these people were inept, signed a presidential executive order and had Honore on the ground waiting. Blanco should just be shot, along with Brown and Cheertof.

Next year when you look up rant in the dictionary, this will be there.

Class dismissed
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
23,722
Reaction score
8,409
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
teacher said:
GySgt said:
Absolutely not. This problem was bigger than what they could have reacted too.

If the best CO, XO, or platoon seargent you ever knew was the Mayor, would you still say that Gunny? This whole thing makes me nuts. Ah.....more nuts.
If this was a military action there wouldn't even be a discussion of a disaster. Just an outcry from American citizens after a few Marines beat down some looters on camera.
 

teacher

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
30
Location
Nomad.Got a couch,beer,meat,cute daughters,Batman
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
GySgt said:
teacher said:
If this was a military action there wouldn't even be a discussion of a disaster. Just an outcry from American citizens after a few Marines beat down some looters on camera.
I think it was Rush who said long ago that the only thing our government does right is the military. I've been stealing that line ever since.

And to go with that he says the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. Funny and true.
 

scottyz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
teacher said:
So you use the buses to remove the infirm to Baton Rouge. Then turn around and get more. And again. and again. your premise is weak. You spurn logic to heap blame on the Republicans. The problem is people with the "it can't be done" attitude like you were in charge. Something can always be done. Again, not my fault so many healthy people spent days standing on an over pass. They were just stupid. That's all.
My understanding was that the school buses in question do not belong to the city or state? Unless they were offered to the city on this occasion it's a mute point.
 

teacher

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
30
Location
Nomad.Got a couch,beer,meat,cute daughters,Batman
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
scottyz said:
My understanding was that the school buses in question do not belong to the city or state? Unless they were offered to the city on this occasion it's a mute point.
In other words, "it can't be done".

Some of my favorite words are "nary", "whilst", "infer", and "Moot".
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
SouthernDemocrat said:
More right wing lies, half truths and misrepresentations:

  • The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans made a huge mistake by moving people to the Superdome. The fact of the matter is, if those people had not been moved to and encouraged to go to the Superdome, the majority would have probably perished in the hurricane and directly after when the levees failed and the city was flooded. It was probably the best move made by any level of government prior to the hurricane.
  • The radical right says that the Mayor of New Orleans should have used some “2000” school buses to evacuate the poor, elderly, and disabled. There are a few problems with that assertion though.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]134,000 people were left to be evacuated.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The city did not have 2000 school buses, it had 324 school buses.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Out of those 324 school buses the city had at its disposal, 70 were broken down.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]This leaves 254 school buses the city had at its disposal.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If all of those school buses were used to evacuate the poor, the elderly, and the disabled, less than 10,000 additional people could have been evacuated.
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]So still over 120,000 people would have been left in the city.


  • Wow...This one cuts deep into the city's management, but I find it hysterical that you use it as a defense....I will attempt to be clear...

    It...is...the...city's...responsibility...to...evacuate...the...city...Not...Federal...

    If...the...city...doesn't..have...the...means...to...evacuate...the...city...they...didn't...live...up...to...their...responsibility...

    If...the...buses...were...too...small...in...number...and...broken...down...then...

    A)The...city...didn't...do...its...job...according...to...its...own...emergency...plan...

    B)The...MAYOR...didn't...request...enough...help...from...the...governor...who...could've...brought...them...in...from...surrounding...areas...or...request...buses...from...other...states...

    Pointing fingers is a wonderful thing, ain't it?...It's a shame I'm following the direction of your pointed finger and see nothing...Turn your finger 180 degrees and you will find a local government unable to implement its own emergency plan....

    But that's ok...you will continue to blame everyone you hate instead of where it is rightly due...

    Hope you don't burn your dinner tonight...Those damn Republicans...:roll:
 

teacher

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
5,980
Reaction score
30
Location
Nomad.Got a couch,beer,meat,cute daughters,Batman
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
We've pretty much covered how bad the Mayor and Gov. did. We will never change the libs minds.

I want to know. Why didn't W. act sooner?

1.Didn't know? Why?
a.Doesn't watch the news? We know he doesn't read the news papers.
b.If this is true than he needs to fire all his advisor's.
2.Knew but didn't act? Why?
a.Then the libs would be right and he is evil.
b.An ulterior motive.
My only guess on that one is those to whom all politicians bow down to. Big Oil money.
b1. Why? To take advantage of good fortune that many people would relocate away from the gulf and thereby have less opposition to drilling in the gulf.
3.Legal issues?
3a.So what. He the boss and can do most anything and isn't worried about reelection.

Are not, logically, these the only possibilities? So is it?
1a.Ignorance.
1b.Misplaced trust.
2a.He IS Satan.
2b.Greed.
3.The Law.

Am I missing any?

I think either 1b. or 2b. My heart says 1a. My brain says 2b.

:monkey:And you all thought I was a neo-con. :monkeyarm
 
Last edited:

MSgt

Stabler Genius
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
23,722
Reaction score
8,409
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
cnredd said:
Wow...This one cuts deep into the city's management, but I find it hysterical that you use it as a defense....I will attempt to be clear...

It...is...the...city's...responsibility...to...evacuate...the...city...Not...Federal...

If...the...city...doesn't..have...the...means...to...evacuate...the...city...they...didn't...live...up...to...their...responsibility...

If...the...buses...were...too...small...in...number...and...broken...down...then...

A)The...city...didn't...do...its...job...according...to...its...own...emergency...plan...

B)The...MAYOR...didn't...request...enough...help...from...the...governor...who...could've...brought...them...in...from...surrounding...areas...or...request...buses...from...other...states...

Pointing fingers is a wonderful thing, ain't it?...It's a shame I'm following the direction of your pointed finger and see nothing...Turn your finger 180 degrees and you will find a local government unable to implement its own emergency plan....

But that's ok...you will continue to blame everyone you hate instead of where it is rightly due...

Hope you don't burn your dinner tonight...Those damn Republicans...:roll:
Training and preparation is an important part of military life. Especially in the Corps. I have no sympathy for a situation that falls apart due to a lack of interest in peparation. Right now, there are over a thousand Marines in New Orleans aiding a situation that largely fell apart at the training and preparation stage and the immediate response stage. In the mean time, their families are riding out Ophelia alone. But they will be fine, why? Because they are prepared and the immediate respone stage is ready to go.
 
Last edited:

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,307
Reaction score
13,540
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
teacher said:
GySgt said:
I think it was Rush who said long ago that the only thing our government does right is the military. I've been stealing that line ever since.

And to go with that he says the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. Funny and true.
How would Rush know? Didn’t he get 4 or 5 draft deferments?

It depends on how you define it actually. Yes, we have by far the best military in the world. However, our defense spending is also the most wasteful and inefficient federal government expenditure due to (insert your congressman’s or president’s favorite big contributing defense contractor here). I remember reading an AP article a couple of years ago saying that a recent CBO Pentagon audit found that the Defense Department could not account for over 1 Trillion dollars in defense spending.
 
Top Bottom