Moms Demand Action Has No Business Existing

[JMB1911A1]

Then you don't agree.

Wow, way to edit my post and not even debate the substance. I guess you consider “pro-choice” to be Federally funded abortion with no limits up until the moments of birth.

 

[The Mark]

I never said they shouldn't have any 1st Amendment rights, they can say and think what they want, but what they say or think about gun control shouldn't count.

That's significantly different from your OP, where you said they shouldn't exist.

 

[NolanVoyd]

I agree that it should be left to the states in

So you think it's OK for state government to get all up in the personal business of citizens?

 

[Lursa]

Wow, way to edit my post and not even debate the substance. I guess you consider “pro-choice” to be Federally funded abortion with no limits up until the moments of birth.

Why would funding change? And there are no limits in some states now...and no such non-medically necessary late term abortions take place. So if that's your concern...it's wasted. As a matter of fact, no one here has ever found and posted an example of abortions "while a woman is in labor." Yeah...that's what that means and that's why it reads so stupidly.

 

[Luce]

Wow, way to edit my post and not even debate the substance. I guess you consider “pro-choice” to be Federally funded abortion with no limits up until the moments of birth.

I left the rest of your post out because it was basically the same argument the gun-grabbers use. You don't like it.

I consider pro-choice to be the Roe V Wade conditions.

Also, the 10th amendment deals with government powers, not personal rights. As I expect you to know, the constitution is not an inclusive list of rights, it is an exclusive list of government powers.

Since it is a matter of rights and not powers, the 9th amendment was the appropriate vehicle for the subject.

You are either for the rights of citizens or you are not.

And if everyone doesn't have rights, neither do you. You instead have mere privilege, which can be revoked at any time. Both the 9th amendment issue of Roe V Wade and the 14th amendment issue of birthright citizenship will decide if you have actual rights, because if they can ignore parts of the constitution, they (the government) can ignore any part of the constitution, including your 2nd amendment right to bear arms and your 1st amendment right to holler about it.

 

[RF667799]

Reducing firearm violence is the DUTY of firearm owners.

Done my part.

Next.

 

[Spock]

You want an overbearing government that tells you how to live. Pathetic. Take some responsibility for your own choices and stay the **** out of other people's lives.

The problem is guns affect everyone and your selfish need for lethal weapons, in complete disregard for the firearm violence problem, contributes to death and injury that could be reduced if not prevented.

 

[Spock]

Your hyperbole actually amounts to "owning a car contributes incrementally to the private vehicle prevalence and access problem that has produced 2,300,000 deaths and injuries." (2020)

It does no such thing when empty of fuel or locked in your garage, for examples. Correct? So it doesnt apply to unloaded or safely secured firearms either. Right? Or explain how it's not the same? So once again, oversimplification by reducing an issue to purely numbers fails. More importantly, continually trumpeting it distracts from the more realistic and relevant causes and possible solutions.

Now you recognize that the total number of guns in America is a problematic denominator. Good work.

 

[Rich2018]

That's significantly different from your OP, where you said they shouldn't exist.

I asked DebateChallenge if he thought of women as second class citizens
He justified his misogynistic views by saying that some people don't think men should get involved with the abortion debate

He seems to think that women have no place using guns. He probably baulks at the idea of a female president or chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (or would that be "chair-person"?)

He probably baulks at the idea of the NFL appointing a female umpire or even a female NASCAR driver.

 

[Spock]

Done my part.

Next.

Doubtful. But every gun advocate typically thinks they are special and do not contribute to any overall risk whatsoever.

 

[Lursa]

Your hyperbole actually amounts to "owning a car contributes incrementally to the private vehicle prevalence and access problem that has produced 2,300,000 deaths and injuries." (2020)

It does no such thing when empty of fuel or locked in your garage, for examples. Correct? So it doesnt apply to unloaded or safely secured firearms either. Right? Or explain how it's not the same? So once again, oversimplification by reducing an issue to purely numbers fails. More importantly, continually trumpeting it distracts from the more realistic and relevant causes and possible solutions.

Now you recognize that the total number of guns in America is a problematic denominator. Good work.

My post says the opposite...are you lying or reading "unfortunately poorly?" And you conveniently ignored all the question marks in that post as well. Why is that? If you have a response, please dont make it about me.

 

[Spock]

My post says the opposite...are you lying or reading "unfortunately poorly?" And you conveniently ignored all the question marks in that post as well. Why is that? If you have a response, please dont make it about me.

You were the person who insisted on using total estimated US firearms as denominator in your risk claims. Do you not understand your own arithmetic?

 

[Rich2018]

Doubtful. But every gun advocate typically thinks they are special and do not contribute to any overall risk whatsoever.

And they construct one of 3 basic lies in their mind to justify buying a gun:

It's not logic at all, it's just insecurity and paranoia taken to a comically absurd level. Indeed, I suspect that in many cases it's not even that, just a cynical excuse to buy a gun - in this case, excuse#2.2

1. Gun ownership is a "natural" right that supersedes any law or constitution

2. Guns are needed because:
2.1 Some people live so far away from a supermarket, that they need guns to provide food
2.2 Without guns, they'd be murdered/robbed/raped with a day/week/month/year (delete as appropriate)

3. Gun Control is impossible anyway because:
3.1 There are too many guns in circulation even for a country as powerful as the USA to collect
3.2 Even if a gun ban was imposed, law enforcement would refuse to enforce such laws.

 

[Lursa]

You were the person who insisted on using total estimated US firearms as denominator in your risk claims. Do you not understand your own arithmetic?

Only to counter your continued claims that it's all about the prevalence of guns in the US. You have yet to refute my response on that Feel free to return to that thread and do so. As for this thread:

Did you lie when you responded or fail at reading my post here properly? Because you conveniently ignored all the question marks in that post as well. Why is that? If you have a response, please dont make it about me.

Your hyperbole (post 138) actually amounts to "owning a car contributes incrementally to the private vehicle prevalence and access problem that has produced 2,300,000 deaths and injuries." (2020)

It does no such thing when empty of fuel or locked in your garage, for examples. Correct? So it doesnt apply to unloaded or safely secured firearms either. Right? Or explain how it's not the same? So once again, oversimplification by reducing an issue to purely numbers fails. More importantly, continually trumpeting it distracts from the more realistic and relevant causes and possible solutions.

 

[Rich2018]

The problem is guns affect everyone and your selfish need for lethal weapons, in complete disregard for the firearm violence problem, contributes to death and injury that could be reduced if not prevented.

Not "need", but excuse.

 

[Spock]

And they construct one of 3 basic lies in their mind to justify buying a gun:

It's not logic at all, it's just insecurity and paranoia taken to a comically absurd level. Indeed, I suspect that in many cases it's not even that, just a cynical excuse to buy a gun - in this case, excuse#2.2

1. Gun ownership is a "natural" right that supersedes any law or constitution

2. Guns are needed because:
2.1 Some people live so far away from a supermarket, that they need guns to provide food
2.2 Without guns, they'd be murdered/robbed/raped with a day/week/month/year (delete as appropriate)

3. Gun Control is impossible anyway because:
3.1 There are too many guns in circulation even for a country as powerful as the USA to collect
3.2 Even if a gun ban was imposed, law enforcement would refuse to enforce such laws.

2.3 While crossing the prairie in a covered wagon, Indians may need to be shot
2.4 Rattlesnakes cannot be dealt except by shooting
2.5 Bear and wolf attacks have become common in the suburbs because gun grabbers have disarmed the population
2.6 Guns will be needed to allow Red states to secede.

 

[Spock]

Not "need", but excuse.

I think it is an addiction, hence perceived "need".

 

[Spock]

Only to counter your continued claims that it's all about the prevalence of guns in the US. You have yet to refute my response on that Feel free to return to that thread and do so. As for this thread:

Did you lie when you responded or fail at reading my post here properly? Because you conveniently ignored all the question marks in that post as well. Why is that? If you have a response, please dont make it about me.

I find your questions to be rhetorical at best and poorly constructed at worst. So explain yourself if you want to discuss an issue. You are not Socrates and certainly do not possess sufficient knowledge of this subject to be didactic.

PS learn the correct syntax for posting responses

 

[RF667799]

Doubtful. But every gun advocate typically thinks they are special and do not contribute to any overall risk whatsoever.

I don't. My guns are a net positive to society.

 

[RF667799]

2.3 While crossing the prairie in a covered wagon, Indians may need to be shot
2.4 Rattlesnakes cannot be dealt except by shooting
2.5 Bear and wolf attacks have become common in the suburbs because gun grabbers have disarmed the population
2.6 Guns will be needed to allow Red states to secede.

I think his strawman was elaborate enough, without the flair you added.

 

[Spock]

I don't. My guns are a net positive to society.

Doubtful. However it is unproductive to attempt to teach a gun addict anything.

 

[Spock]

I think his strawman was elaborate enough, without the flair you added.

Certainly you must believe that citizen firearms are essential to protecting American society from the overbearing actions of the " guvmint ". That is probably the fallacy of gun nuts that is most laughable.

 

[Lursa]

Your hyperbole actually amounts to "owning a car contributes incrementally to the private vehicle prevalence and access problem that has produced 2,300,000 deaths and injuries." (2020)

It does no such thing when empty of fuel or locked in your garage, for examples. Correct? So it doesnt apply to unloaded or safely secured firearms either. Right? Or explain how it's not the same? So once again, oversimplification by reducing an issue to purely numbers fails. More importantly, continually trumpeting it distracts from the more realistic and relevant causes and possible solutions.

I find your questions to be rhetorical at best and poorly constructed at worst. So explain yourself if you want to discuss an issue. You are not Socrates and certainly do not possess sufficient knowledge of this subject to be didactic.

PS learn the correct syntax for posting responses

You have a very common M.O. in your posting. You dont like it when you cant come up with legitimate, direct counter arguments, so you start making it about the poster, and then you act like you've been put upon...yuh, participation is voluntary ...like you're a victim, and look for the door.

 

[RF667799]

Doubtful. However it is unproductive to attempt to teach a gun addict anything.

Guns in general are a net positive to society.

 

[RF667799]

Certainly you must believe that citizen firearms are essential to protecting American society from the overbearing actions of the " guvmint ". That is probably the fallacy of gun nuts that is most laughable.

I told you that the strawman was good enough as it was. Now it's just looking clownishly stupid.

Besides...here we are after two hundred some years and it's still Americans 1, Tyranny 0.