Minimum Wage Increase

[Scucca]

Read whatever ignorant and unenlightened idiocy you like into what I say kid. :lol:

I read no comment about the minimum wage (again!).

 

[Bodi]

I read no comment about the minimum wage (again!).

Do you actually need to see the words, "minimum wage" in order to understand what is being said? :lol:

BodiSatva
Lower income people need to make more and ... the poor need to be allowed to profit from the labor that they provide.

Posted just a few back.




Goodnight sir, you are boring.





:2wave:

 

[Scucca]

Do you actually need to see the words, "minimum wage" in order to understand what is being said?

I understand that you came out with low brow stuff and avoided any discussion about the impact of the minimum wage. For example, the minimum wage is actually a rather poor poverty alleviation device. That reflects inefficiency (i.e. many recipients are in non-poor households) and ineffectiveness (i.e. underpayment is not sufficiently high to enable poverty escape). Moreover, a national/state minimum wage is actually rather blunt and that hinders its chances of eliminating the existing underpayment

Try to entertain the issues for a change

 

[Bodi]

... And you are literally unable to understand the words that you read. Dude, you're a joke. :lol:


The moment that you indicate that you are able to comprehend the words that you read, instead of relaying your ignorant interpretation, will be the day that I take you seriously for more than a second.

 

[Scucca]

The moment that you indicate that you are able to comprehend the words that you read, instead of relaying your ignorant interpretation, will be the day that I take you seriously for more than a second.

I appreciate your dilemma. You've made a sub-'beauty contestant' comment and you do not want to admit it. Fair enough.

It is a shame that you continue to hide from the available analysis. Consider, for example, the nature of monopsony. The available wage increases from a minimum wage will be dependent on the source of the firm's wage making power. For example, if it is created by differences in worker preferences we will predict that a minimum wage will have an overall negative effect. The labour repercussions will be dominated by firms being forced out of the market. However, if we refer to how monopsony is generated by job search frictions we have employment creation effects available.

One can only refer to the optimal minimum wage by evaluating this theory. There is no benefit from sticking to beauty contestant vacuousness

 

[UtahBill]

... And you are literally unable to understand the words that you read. Dude, you're a joke. :lol:


The moment that you indicate that you are able to comprehend the words that you read, instead of relaying your ignorant interpretation, will be the day that I take you seriously for more than a second.

People who refuse to use words that the majority of us understand are trying their best to puff up their egos. For all they try, they are still either college professors who bore the heck out of most of us, or they are unemployed, or both.
Makes no sense. IF someone has knowledge to impart, but insists on teaching at a level that only a very few can follow, he is an ineffective teacher. AKA a waste of skin....

 

[1069]

People who won't use words that the majority of us understand are trying their best to puff up their egos.

Dude. There's nothing all that arcane about Scucca's words.
You're on the internet. look them up online if you don't know what they mean.
His vocabulary is not the problem.
It's his concepts that are a little difficult for mere mortals to grasp, and I hope he doesn't dumb them down for the general readership.
He's very knowledgeable in his field of interest (which seems to be economics) and people should either try to debunk his positions (By saying something other than "Scucca sucks because he uses big words that me no understand, haw haw haw.") or else concede that they can't debunk them, and then scamper off and take out their frustration by starting a thread about him in the Basement or the Tavern, two places he never goes anyway, because he isn't here to socialize.

 

[Ethereal]

Dude. There's nothing all that arcane about Scucca's words.
You're on the internet. look them up online if you don't know what they mean.
His vocabulary is not the problem.
It's his concepts that are a little difficult for mere mortals to grasp, and I hope he doesn't dumb them down for the general readership.
He's very knowledgeable in his field of interest (which seems to be economics) and people should either try to debunk his positions (By saying something other than "Scucca sucks because he uses big words that me no understand, haw haw haw.") or else concede that they can't debunk them, and then scamper off and take out their frustration by starting a thread about him in the Basement or the Tavern, two places he never goes anyway, because he isn't here to socialize.

This is why nobody takes either of you seriously. I garuntee that you don't understand half the things he says or why they are largely irrelevant. It can't be the logic he's using that's impressing you because you're incapable of grasping the lexicon - it's the agenda he's pushing that you love. It wouldn't matter how he said it so long as you agreed with it.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Dude. There's nothing all that arcane about Scucca's words.
You're on the internet. look them up online if you don't know what they mean.
His vocabulary is not the problem.
It's his concepts that are a little difficult for mere mortals to grasp, and I hope he doesn't dumb them down for the general readership.
He's very knowledgeable in his field of interest (which seems to be economics) and people should either try to debunk his positions (By saying something other than "Scucca sucks because he uses big words that me no understand, haw haw haw.") or else concede that they can't debunk them, and then scamper off and take out their frustration by starting a thread about him in the Basement or the Tavern, two places he never goes anyway, because he isn't here to socialize.

No amount of jargon can make true his ridiculous logic such as "prohibition = freedom." I cannot believe someone as intelligent as you has been so fooled.

 

[Scucca]

It's his concepts that are a little difficult for mere mortals to grasp

Its even worse when we consider that I've mainly applied right wing theory. They used to make em a tad more sophisticated in the old days. I blame the parents!

Its not possible to have any relevant discussion about minimum wages unless monopsony is fully considered. Ask them nicely to do some reading! (particularly the "I is libertarian honest" conservatives)

 

[DeeJayH]

What I said was both a "soundbite" and relevant.
What I said was the Truth.
Nobody can rationally deny this...

That is...
Unless you think that the rich deserve making many many many MANY more times the amount of the poor for little to less effort?

... But that defies rationality. So....

I think if you work hard, invest in yourself and an education, and rise up to become wealthy, you earned every penny of it. I know i have. And most people i know are paid what they deserve, which isn't much

 

[Scucca]

And most people i know are paid what they deserve, which isn't much

Your subjectivity won't be worth much. You should start with some means to calculate 'deserved wage' and then ascertain whether the market will deliver those wages. Orthodox economics suggests that will not be the case. To deliver underpayment we only need to assume that employers are profit maximisers and that workers are not superhuman with perfect knowledge of available job opportunties.

 

[DeeJayH]

Your subjectivity won't be worth much. You should start with some means to calculate 'deserved wage' and then ascertain whether the market will deliver those wages. Orthodox economics suggests that will not be the case. To deliver underpayment we only need to assume that employers are profit maximisers and that workers are not superhuman with perfect knowledge of available job opportunties.

a. i never said they were underpaid
2. nothing superhuman about looking at the classifieds :roll:

 

[Scucca]

a. i never said they were underpaid

Underpayment is the norm, unless of course you want to refer to managerial theories of the firm and how the management class are able to secure compensation above what that they 'deserve'

2. nothing superhuman about looking at the classifieds

Looking in the classifieds is a reflection on our imperfect information and need to use job search techniques to secure employment (or superior employment). You're actually supporting the existence monopsony with your comment (without knowing it of course)

 

[UtahBill]

I think if you work hard, invest in yourself and an education, and rise up to become wealthy, you earned every penny of it. I know i have. And most people i know are paid what they deserve, which isn't much

I have a similar background, altho I am not sure what "wealthy" is. My wife and I are secure, even beyond that, such that we can do a cruise every year if we want, travel locally quite a bit, and enjoy a nice house and relatively new cars (2000 and 2002). We worked hard to retire as well as we did.

And I know many people who are severly overpaid for what they do, for how much, or how little, they contribute to the success of their employer.
But I will take exception to those on Wall Street who don't contribute, but instead take fortunes for themselves by siphoning from the funds of the rest of us. Congress aids and abets their efforts, of course.
More of us could be more successful if the playing field was a bit more level...

 

[Scucca]

No amount of jargon can make true his ridiculous logic such as "prohibition = freedom." I cannot believe someone as intelligent as you has been so fooled.

Fake libertarianism, being so popular in the US of A, is really rather tutworthy! The protection of property rights is certainly a hip-hip-hoorah in favour of freedom. In terms of the minimum wage, the worthless aspect of the "we dont need no minimum wage" sulk is its celebration of underpayment. That is nothing but shallow vocab for exploitation and quite consistent with coercion in the labour contract

 

[Jerry]

How do you feel about the recent increase in the minimum wage?

Do you feel that it will help anybody?

Would you have wanted a bigger increase?

Or would you rather have kept it the same, lowered, or even eliminated?

Vote your choice in the poll.


And finally, does anybody have a valid argument for even having a minimum wage?

We should rais the federal minimum wage to $20 per houre.

 

[UtahBill]

We should rais the federal minimum wage to $20 per houre.

but only for those who can spell the words raise and hour correctly...:lol:

 

[Scucca]

We should rais the federal minimum wage to $20 per houre.

There certainly is no reason that an industry minimum rate can be raised to $20. There also is potentially a gain from a rate set according to a "decency wage" (such as the ad hoc use of 2/3s of median wage rates), with two effects: an efficiency wage effect (where effort rates increase because of a wage increase) and a structural effect (given the upskilling of workers)

 

[rivrrat]

Abolish it.

You deserve what you tolerate. If you're okay working for a crap wage, then a crap wage is what you deserve. If you think you deserve more, then go get more.

But hey, if they raise the minimum wage, those of us who don't work for minimum wage get paid more too. After all, we deserve a certain percentage more than minimum wage, so a raise we shall get as well. /shrug So... whatever. Cost of living goes up, it all comes out even in the end, but the silly little socialists get to pat themselves on the back under the illusion that they've done something "good".

 

[UtahBill]

Abolish it.

You deserve what you tolerate. If you're okay working for a crap wage, then a crap wage is what you deserve. If you think you deserve more, then go get more.

".

I left the Navy due to family seperation issues, and low wages, and kept going up from there. It meant transferring away from bosses who won't pay more when I was doing more than my coworkers, and later on moving out of state (for a 50% raise), and even there, I left one job because the boss had become a jerk. BUT, that last one was a mistake. Right after I left, that bad boss got fired, and looking back, I had left the best job I ever had.....
Overall, tho, I did well by insisting on fair pay.
I watched lots of people just sit and take crap at low pay over the years.
Too bad for them....:2wave:

 

[Scucca]

Abolish it

Why do you think that almost every capitalist nation has some form of minimum wage protection?

Cost of living goes up, it all comes out even in the end, but the silly little socialists get to pat themselves on the back under the illusion that they've done something "good".

This is drivel. The empirical evidence fails to find any significant inflationary effects. Moreover, the minimum wage is nothing to do with socialism. It is needed to regulate monopsony market failure and therefore about protecting capitalism from its failures.

 

[rivrrat]

Why do you think that almost every capitalist nation has some form of minimum wage protection?

Because they're stupid

This is drivel. The empirical evidence fails to find any significant inflationary effects. Moreover, the minimum wage is nothing to do with socialism. It is needed to regulate monopsony market failure and therefore about protecting capitalism from its failures.

Yeah riiiiight. Cost of ALL labor goes up, but the companies don't make up the difference in other ways. Suuure.

And, there's more than one place that people can work, so wtf is up with the monopsony bull****? We don't have company towns anymore.

 

[Scucca]

Because they're stupid

That is not a mature answer. Please try again. Why do you think minimum wages are so popular? Consider, for example, the experience of the Brits. They eliminated minimum wage protection and that merely increased low wage employment (and forced the increase in welfare subsidies to the low wage recipients)

Yeah riiiiight. Cost of ALL labor goes up, but the companies don't make up the difference in other ways. Suuure.

Point me to one economic study that finds significant inflationary effects from minimum wages.

And, there's more than one place that people can work, so wtf is up with the monopsony bull****? We don't have company towns anymore.

It is weak that you cannot even muster understanding of monopsony (particularly as I've already defined it in this thread). Monopsony only requires that firms face upward sloping labour supply curve (i.e. that they have wage making power and there is no notion of the 'market wage'). That is the norm

 

[rivrrat]

That is not a mature answer. Please try again. Why do you think minimum wages are so popular? Consider, for example, the experience of the Brits. They eliminated minimum wage protection and that merely increased low wage employment (and forced the increase in welfare subsidies to the low wage recipients)

Well the Brits apparently suck. But, you should have enjoyed that outcome, given that it meant more people were on the dole.

Point me to one economic study that finds significant inflationary effects from minimum wages.

Point me to one that states how businesses make up the diffference in their labor costs. Or that they just ignore it and accept the cut in profit.

It is weak that you cannot even muster understanding of monopsony (particularly as I've already defined it in this thread). Monopsony only requires that firms face upward sloping labour supply curve (i.e. that they have wage making power and there is no notion of the 'market wage'). That is the norm

Weird because that's not what it said I looked it up. It specifically referrenced a many to one ratio. So how does that play into it? Or rather, that the ratio is actually many to many instead of many to one?

People have choices and if they choose to work for a low wage and are willing to accept that, then that's their issue. Not the government's.