Minimum Wage Increase

[Doc Howl]

We can have social programs to help people with the basic necessities of life.

So wait. Instead of demanding that companies pay a minimum, you want to use tax dollars to underwrite a company's payroll?

 

[Doc Howl]

If YOU have any answers to the topic you brought up, yes you did, then let's hear them. Otherwise go trolling somewhere else....

No, I didn't. Quit your lying.

 

[UtahBill]

No, I didn't. Quit your lying.

So post #11 isn't yours?

 

[Doc Howl]

So post #11 isn't yours?

Was it a reply to post #9?

Why, yes it was. Jfuh brought it up, not me.

What was that you said? Go troll someone else. Or words to that effect.

 

[Kandahar]

So wait. Instead of demanding that companies pay a minimum, you want to use tax dollars to underwrite a company's payroll?

Underwrite a company's payroll? No. I'm talking about using tax dollars to help people afford the basic necessities of life, because they either can't find a job or their job doesn't pay enough. We can alleviate poverty without screwing up the labor market in the process.

Do you think that you should have to pay a minimum price for an ear of corn, to make sure that the corn farmer has a living wage? Do you think that you should have to pay a minimum price for a hamburger, to make sure that the owner of the burger joint has a living wage?

 

[UtahBill]

Was it a reply to post #9?

Why, yes it was. Jfuh brought it up, not me.

What was that you said? Go troll someone else. Or words to that effect.

By some very wild stretch of your imagination.....congratulations, you just got added to my "ignore the troll" list...unless you can get Jfuh to say that is what he meant.
YOU implied that they choose to live that way, altho you MAY have been using sarcasm. Regardless, you are the one who implied that some choose to live that way, and I agreed, as my 2 siblings are classic examples of people who choose to live at the very bottom of the economic ladder.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Why do you pose questions in that manner?

The will of the people can only extend as far as the Constitution will allow. Anything beyond that is a direct Democracy and not a Representational Republic/Democracy.

Who makes the laws?

Who elects the people that make the laws?

Thanks.

Are you honestly suggesting that the will of the people justifies unconstitutionality? That we live under mob rule?

That the people have the right to vote on EVERYTHING, including their rights?

 

[Scucca]

Minimum wage that only in turn translates to a rise in prices to which then they don't really see any benefit at all.

This is a myth. Economists struggle to find any significant price effect from the minimum wage. Moreover, positive effects for working poverty are easy to find. For example, Dickens et al. (1999, The Effects of Minimum Wages on Employment: Theory and Evidence from Britain, Journal of Labor Economics, Vol. 17 Issue 1, pp 1-23) conclude that "minimum wages significantly compress the distribution of earnings but do not have a negative impact on employment". Such analysis is consistent with reduction in the consequences of monopsony power and therefore a redistribution of economic rents from employer to employee

 

[jamesrage]

How do you feel about the recent increase in the minimum wage?

Do you feel that it will help anybody?

Would you have wanted a bigger increase?

Or would you rather have kept it the same, lowered, or even eliminated?

Vote your choice in the poll.

I think minimum wages should go up higher.If these clowns in office can give themselves annual cost of living pay raises then they should be able to extend that their bosses IE the tax payers.

Unlike most conservatives I actually support minimum wage increases and unions.They are good thing because it ensures that people are not taken advantage of.There is absolutely no reason why someone who is making millions of the backs of their workers can not pay them a decent wage.

People including those who run businesses are opportunistic and greedy by nature,I am sure if most of us would hire if given the chance would only pay someone a few bucks or less to mow our lawn or paint our house if we could while at the same time wanting our employers to pay us more money than we are already getting paid

And finally, does anybody have a valid argument for even having a minimum wage?

Humans are not commodities that can not be bought or sold to the lowest bidder.Because we would still have Americans makings making less than a dollar a day if we didn't have minimum wage.It would be like the Andrew Carnegie days where a mulitmillion dollar company would make millions and all their workers hardly getting paid anything at all.Who knows what ****hole of a country this would be if we still had Americans earning less than 3rd world wages

 

[Ethereal]

It's obvious you made a knee-jerk post, and now you're embarrassed because you jammed both feet in your mouth.

Whoopsie.

The day I feel embarrassed by anyone in an internet forum is the day hell freezes over. The fact remains that you've made a mistake but it hurts your ego too much to admit it. That you think the will of the people is absolute in a representational democracy is a testament to your ignorance. The people and their representatives must operate within the parameters of the Constitution. To think otherwise is to confuse a direct democracy with a representational democracy.

Whoopsie.

 

[RedAkston]

The day I feel embarrassed by anyone in an internet forum is the day hell freezes over. The fact remains that you've made a mistake but it hurts your ego too much to admit it. That you think the will of the people is absolute in a representational democracy is a testament to your ignorance. The people and their representatives must operate within the parameters of the Constitution. To think otherwise is to confuse a direct democracy with a representational democracy.

Whoopsie.

Sshhhh, it's more fun watching him spin. I had my popcorn and soda right here and you went and ruined it for me. Thanks, thanks a lot! :lol:

 

[Ethereal]

Sshhhh, it's more fun watching him spin. I had my popcorn and soda right here and you went and ruined it for me. Thanks, thanks a lot!

Sorry but this is the no-:spin: zone.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Underwrite a company's payroll? No. I'm talking about using tax dollars to help people afford the basic necessities of life, because they either can't find a job or their job doesn't pay enough. We can alleviate poverty without screwing up the labor market in the process.

Do you think that you should have to pay a minimum price for an ear of corn, to make sure that the corn farmer has a living wage? Do you think that you should have to pay a minimum price for a hamburger, to make sure that the owner of the burger joint has a living wage?

But wouldn' that be a way for companies and employers to screw the goverment. That the companies can pay and people accept "starving wages" because the goverment pay the diffrence.

But minimum wages is not always necissary that in a country like mine Sweden it hasn't been necisary for a long time because we have strong unions and strong industry organization. That they negotiate agreement for wages, working hours and other work condition for diffrent branches.

 

[Scucca]

But minimum wages is not always necissary that in a country like mine Sweden it hasn't been necisary for a long time because we have strong unions and strong industry organization.

I have no Swedish specific comment to make, so I'll go with something more general. The problem with collective bargaining replacing minimum wages is that wage norms can allow inefficiently high wage inequalities. Its probably better to have something similar to the British wages council system, where industry minimum rates are set (after employer organisation, trade union and academic input)

 

[danarhea]

How do you feel about the recent increase in the minimum wage?

Do you feel that it will help anybody?

Would you have wanted a bigger increase?

Or would you rather have kept it the same, lowered, or even eliminated?

Vote your choice in the poll.


And finally, does anybody have a valid argument for even having a minimum wage?

The government should not be in the business of dictating what companies should pay their employees. In a true market, if a company underpays, they will lose their best employees, and become less profitable, and could possibly even go out of business. That is the way the market works.

 

[Scucca]

In a true market, if a company underpays, they will lose their best employees, and become less profitable, and could possibly even go out of business. That is the way the market works.

A charmingly innocent comment. Your point would require a form of perfect competition. Given monopsony is the norm, wage underpayment is the norm. A minimum wage will then be required to reduce that underpayment

 

[Kandahar]

A charmingly innocent comment. Your point would require a form of perfect competition. Given monopsony is the norm, wage underpayment is the norm. A minimum wage will then be required to reduce that underpayment

mo·nop·so·ny Audio Help /məˈnɒpsəni/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muh-nop-suh-nee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -nies.
the market condition that exists when there is one buyer.

There is one buyer in the labor market? WTF?

If I'm a doctor and I don't like my employer, I can find a job at a different hospital. If I'm a factory worker and I don't like my employer, I can find a job at a different factory. If I'm a burger-flipper and I don't like my employer, I can find a job at a different fast food restaurant.

Not to mention that I'm free to improve my training and/or formal education at any time to get a different kind of job altogether.

 

[jfuh]

Underwrite a company's payroll? No. I'm talking about using tax dollars to help people afford the basic necessities of life, because they either can't find a job or their job doesn't pay enough. We can alleviate poverty without screwing up the labor market in the process.

Do you think that you should have to pay a minimum price for an ear of corn, to make sure that the corn farmer has a living wage? Do you think that you should have to pay a minimum price for a hamburger, to make sure that the owner of the burger joint has a living wage?

Interesting point you bring up.
So then the tax payer then is going to need to "foot" a minimum price so as to alleviate poverty. When it comes to social programs that are intended to alleviate poverty though....... this government fracks up big time and in turn affects the labor market.
So how does your proposition over come that?

 

[Kandahar]

Interesting point you bring up.
So then the tax payer then is going to need to "foot" a minimum price so as to alleviate poverty. When it comes to social programs that are intended to alleviate poverty though....... this government fracks up big time and in turn affects the labor market.
So how does your proposition over come that?

1. It doesn't really "overcome" it, so much as it acknowledges it and tolerates it. The only way to have no market distortions is to have no government.

2. Social programs do affect the labor market...but unlike the minimum wage, not all of the ways in which they affect the labor market are BAD. For example, medicare. One of the most gross inefficiencies of the labor market is the tendency for people to stick with crappy jobs they don't like and aren't good at, just for the health benefits. Universal health care would virtually eliminate this phenomenon.

3. If we, as a society, agree that social programs to reduce poverty are a good thing, it makes sense that we as a society should pay for them, instead of forcing the burden onto individuals who employ others.

 

[Scucca]

There is one buyer in the labor market? WTF?

Monopsony only requires that firms face an upward sloping labour supply curve (i.e. they have wage making power). That is delivered in the most simplest of labour markets: i.e. we find it difficult to change jobs and therefore adopt a reservation wage strategy (the lowest wage, despite being less than our worth, that we are prepared to work for)

This is standard stuff in minimum wage analysis (see, for example, Burdett and Mortensen, 1998, Wage Differentials, Employers Size, and Unemployment, International Economic Review, Vol. 39, pp. 257-273). Its also supported by empirical evidence, suggesting that the minimum wage can increase wage and employment

 

[Bergslagstroll]

I have no Swedish specific comment to make, so I'll go with something more general. The problem with collective bargaining replacing minimum wages is that wage norms can allow inefficiently high wage inequalities. Its probably better to have something similar to the British wages council system, where industry minimum rates are set (after employer organisation, trade union and academic input)

Can maybe agree with you in general. But in Sweden it works because you still have solidarity between different branches and even low paying workers have strong organizations.

 

[Scucca]

Can maybe agree with you in general. But in Sweden it works because you still have solidarity between different branches and even low paying workers have strong organizations.

I'd accept that there are country-specific differences. Traditionally, British unions have followed too much the "monopoly union" approach where the wages of the influential members are maximised (to the detriment of employment and also wages of the less influential). If those problems are avoided, the unionisation alternative to minimum wages can certainly be highly effective

 

[Bodi]

Lower income people need to make more and higher income people need to make less.

The rich need to stop being so greedy and the poor need to be allowed to profit from the labor that they provide.

Dude, I sound so freaking Liberal right now, but that is just how it is.

 

[Scucca]

Dude, I sound so freaking Liberal right now, but that is just how it is.

Not quite. A liberal would have offered some justification, rather than just going for bland soundbite. Try making a relevant remark about the minimum wage

 

[Bodi]

Not quite. A liberal would have offered some justification, rather than just going for bland soundbite. Try making a relevant remark about the minimum wage

What I said was both a "soundbite" and relevant.
What I said was the Truth.
Nobody can rationally deny this...

That is...
Unless you think that the rich deserve making many many many MANY more times the amount of the poor for little to less effort?

... But that defies rationality. So....

I leave you to your bizarre and inane blabbering.

Read whatever ignorant and unenlightened idiocy you like into what I say kid. :lol: