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Minimum Wage Debate A Failure Of Common Sense

motivate them to be more productive
man I think you need to rethink your expectations of what a minimum wage prole can produce ;)

Seriously yanno them positions that folks that are gonna sign you up for Obamacare starting Oct 1st?
How much do they pay?
 
There is a level where welfare is more profitable than working. It's as simple as, do you want to pay higher taxes so that people can be paid to do nothing, or do you want to raise the minimum wage to a level where welfare is the least profitable option? Pay someone else's bills, or pay them enough that they can pay their own; those are your options.
My question was unrelated to welfare...
 
gold absolutely does not rise in value
Dude seriously? the 'value' of gold DOESN'T CHANGE the stupid worthless fiat currency is what changes amIright? Try this one on for size, rather than 'inflate' i.e. devalue our currency starting in 2008 we should have DEFLATED it? We should have gone the exact opposite direction from the commie in chief and
balanced the budget, (that's right cut govt spending) lowered taxes and increased the value of the dollar by shrinking the money supply tied to
GDP and employment

one guess what happens to this country the millisecond the Fed Funds rate moves off of Zero?
 
The point?

The point is that we have more leisure time now and things that used to take hours can now be done in seconds. Not everything can be measured/compared by using the pay for working for one hour as the cost basis.

The cost of a first class postage stamp in 1968 was 6 cents.
Working one hour at the minimum wage in 1968 ($4.75) would let you buy 79 stamps.

The cost of a first class postage stamp in 2013 is 46 cents.
Working one hour at the minimum wage in 2013 ($7.25) will let you buy 15 stamps.

Does that mean that the minimum wage in 1968 should have been only $.90 (allowing you to buy 15 stamps) or that the 2013 minimum wage should really be $36.34 (allowing you to buy 79 stamps)?
 
Dude seriously? the 'value' of gold DOESN'T CHANGE the stupid worthless fiat currency is what changes amIright? Try this one on for size, rather than 'inflate' i.e. devalue our currency starting in 2008 we should have DEFLATED it? We should have gone the exact opposite direction from the commie in chief and
balanced the budget, (that's right cut govt spending) lowered taxes and increased the value of the dollar by shrinking the money supply tied to
GDP and employment

one guess what happens to this country the millisecond the Fed Funds rate moves off of Zero?

Contradictory positions without some other policy changes...
 
It was called Voodoo Economics it's worked every time it's been tried
and by the grace of Gawd we will see it again starting in 2017?
 
The point is that we have more leisure time now and things that used to take hours can now be done in seconds. Not everything can be measured/compared by using the pay for working for one hour as the cost basis.

The cost of a first class postage stamp in 1968 was 6 cents.
Working one hour at the minimum wage in 1968 ($4.75) would let you buy 79 stamps.

The cost of a first class postage stamp in 2013 is 46 cents.
Working one hour at the minimum wage in 2013 ($7.25) will let you buy 15 stamps.

Does that mean that the minimum wage in 1968 should have been only $.90 (allowing you to buy 15 stamps) or that the 2013 minimum wage should really be $36.34 (allowing you to buy 79 stamps)?

In the thirties could you have washed/dried the dishes and clothes, worked for an hour, bathed your child and and had your food delivered without a cash transaction all withing an hour? There is no direct comparison to the past. BTW, I think mail delivery should be reduced to MWF as very few use it any longer...
 
How much money did the United States Postal Service lose last quarter?

I don't keep up with it, but it is a dying part of Americana. Right now FedEx and UPS are keeping it somewhat afloat...
 
My question was unrelated to welfare...
The entire issue is the connection between welfare, poverty, and the minimum wage; it's all relevant and needs to be accounted for. Lowering the minimum wage would increase the welfare state and poverty, raising it would reduce it. In either case, society pays for it, either through higher prices or higher taxes, but raising the minimum wage would incentivize a working poor vs. a non-working poor; it's obviously more preferable to have a working poor, and it's mathematically proven to reduce the overall societal cost; prices will not rise at the same rate for increase in MW, than taxes increase due to a reduction of MW. Raising the MW is the most profitable option from a Macro-economic perspective, and that should be reflected as stable or even increased profit at a micro-economic perspective. It's all connected.
Dude seriously? the 'value' of gold DOESN'T CHANGE the stupid worthless fiat currency is what changes amIright? Try this one on for size, rather than 'inflate' i.e. devalue our currency starting in 2008 we should have DEFLATED it? We should have gone the exact opposite direction from the commie in chief and
balanced the budget, (that's right cut govt spending) lowered taxes and increased the value of the dollar by shrinking the money supply tied to
GDP and employment

one guess what happens to this country the millisecond the Fed Funds rate moves off of Zero?
That's what "inflation adjusted" means; it takes the increase in money supply into account. Without taking that into account, you just have the nominal rate (which also fell to a half of it's peak value during the years I mentioned). It doesn't matter how you want to see the "value" of it, it's value isn't constant and it goes up and down in an irregular fashion. Even when you look at inflation during the gold standard, prices went up and down, randomly.
 
In the thirties could you have washed/dried the dishes and clothes, worked for an hour, bathed your child and and had your food delivered without a cash transaction all withing an hour? There is no direct comparison to the past. BTW, I think mail delivery should be reduced to MWF as very few use it any longer...

Good evening, AP. :2wave:

Are they still arguing about whether or not to stop Saturday mail delivery? Our banks close at 1:00 on Saturday, so you can't do anything until Monday anyway. If they are trying not to lay people off, that's one thing, but they could discontinue Saturday delivery, IMO, and not many would care.
 
Right now FedEx and UPS are keeping it somewhat afloat...
How by farming out their work to them while dropping insurance coverage for 20,000 spouses of their own employees? Hell ya now that's smart business !
America what a country!
 
The entire issue is the connection between welfare, poverty, and the minimum wage; it's all relevant and needs to be accounted for. Lowering the minimum wage would increase the welfare state and poverty, raising it would reduce it. In either case, society pays for it, either through higher prices or higher taxes, but raising the minimum wage would incentivize a working poor vs. a non-working poor; it's obviously more preferable to have a working poor, and it's mathematically proven to reduce the overall societal cost; prices will not rise at the same rate for increase in MW, than taxes increase due to a reduction of MW. Raising the MW is the most profitable option from a Macro-economic perspective, and that should be reflected as stable or even increased profit at a micro-economic perspective. It's all connected.

That's what "inflation adjusted" means; it takes the increase in money supply into account. Without taking that into account, you just have the nominal rate (which also fell to a half of it's peak value during the years I mentioned). It doesn't matter how you want to see the "value" of it, it's value isn't constant and it goes up and down in an irregular fashion.

Why not try to promote policies that increase employment rather that arguing about the 2M earning minimum wage?
 
Nor could it buy:
antibiotics
polio vaccine
advanced cancer treatments
lasik eye surgery
an internet connecting the whole world
a colour TV
a 50" flat screen monitor
a cel phone
central air conditioning
a microwave oven
a Winnebago
or a baby's arm holding an apple

Yep. So nobody felt out of sorts for working all day for a quarter. ;)
 
How by farming out their work to them while dropping insurance coverage for 20,000 spouses of their own employees? Hell ya now that's smart business !
America what a country!

I'm no fan of Presidentcare, but it has provided a convenient excuse for companies to alter HC ploicy...
 
Why not try to promote policies that increase employment rather that arguing about the 2M earning minimum wage?

I have and I do, this thread is about minimum wage. (Although I'm debating gold investments with AngryOldGuy)
 
I have and I do, this thread is about minimum wage. (Although I'm debating gold investments with AngryOldGuy)

Wage are a function of demand absent government intervention...

BTW, why would anyone want to own something that produces nothing?
 
I'm no fan of Presidentcare, but it has provided a convenient excuse for companies to alter HC ploicy...

Presidentcare? I like that. :thumbs: And the initials are PC, so it fits right in on current policy! You gotta love it! Wait a minute! No you don't! :shock:
 
In the thirties could you have washed/dried the dishes and clothes, worked for an hour, bathed your child and and had your food delivered without a cash transaction all withing an hour? There is no direct comparison to the past. BTW, I think mail delivery should be reduced to MWF as very few use it any longer...

The USPS (APWU) employees will love that, since then they could play golf 3 days per week. ;)

Naturally there would be no layoffs or the closure of any postal facilities involved, since the USPS employees are salaried they will love your plan!
 
The USPS (APWU) employees will love that, since then they could play golf 3 days per week. ;)

Naturally there would be no layoffs or the closure of any postal facilities involved, since the USPS employees are salaried they will love your plan!

Downsizing of the USPS has a long way to go...
 
Presidentcare? I like that. :thumbs: And the initials are PC, so it fits right in on current policy! You gotta love it! Wait a minute! No you don't! :shock:

I don't think I have used the President's name for quite a while now...
 
I don't think I have used the President's name for quite a while now...

You mean:barack hussein obama aka barry soetoro Whose bro lives inna hut in Kenya without electricity or indoor plumbing?
(which is where we are all headed at this rate)
 
Wage are a function of demand absent government intervention...

BTW, why would anyone want to own something that produces nothing?
Wages are a function of demand, but demand is dependent on wages. That's why this question illicits such a vast range of viewpoints; if it was as simple as a supply/demand curve, this wouldn't be a national debate.

Although I don't see gold as a great investment opportunity, it is an investment; you're turning money plus risk and time into more money (or a loss). From an economic modelling perspective, it's no different than owning a piece of production; owning an appreciating product vs. the production force that made it is identical in most models. Essentially, gold is linked to the labor that produced it (the miners). The problem with it as an investment is that technology produces a surplus in production vs. labor, skewing the profits of investing in favor of the mining company, vs. the gold they mined. In my opinion, it'd be more profitable and stable to quite literally invest in mining stock vs. the physical gold. (Drops in the inflation adjusted graph of gold value could correlate with profit spikes in the mining company).
 
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