Milwaukee County Judge Dugan indicted, grand jury meets Tuesday (1 Viewer)

[j brown's body]

Yes, that's absurd. Again, they were following ICE and courthouse policy. They were working very hard to NOT interfere with former judge Dugan's hearing. She sabotaged it herself.

If either arrest sounds ridiculous to you, I would encourage you to take a step back and try to view the situation more objectively. Your bias against Trump is bleeding over into this case, which concerned agents just trying to do their job to arrest a dangerous alien - who had already been deported, re-entered the US illegally, and beat his roommate (and his girlfriend) over loud music.

The point is, they shouldn't be arresting undocumented immigrants in state courthouses. Because it will lead to immigrants not coming to courthouses, it's self-defeating and it will challenge the ability of these courts to do their jobs.

It isn't bias to note that Trump is attacking the independence of our judiciary. We see it manifested in a number of his strategies.

 

[eohrnberger]

Look at you, pretending to give a **** about law and order and legal procedures.

Well, look at you being the forum troll.

 

[ClaraD]

Seriously, please get caught up.

They presented a valid administrative warrant to the courthouse staff, and followed their instructions. An administrative warrant is absolutely valid, and correct for what they were trying to do. They were waiting until the hearing concluded to arrest the defendant. The judge confronted them in the hallway about it, causing a scene and berating the agents, but had no grounds to either demand or challenge the warrant.

Noting that they did present her with a judicial warrant the next day.

Administrative warrants aren’t legally enforceable warrants. You need a warrant signed by a judge. It would be so easy to take your rights from you

 

[ClaraD]

They were cooperating with the local courts, and following the courthouse policy.

Wouldn't it have been nice if the former judge had done the same?

Bo they weren’t or they would have reported to the chief justice and got a proper warrant

 

[Josie]

Administrative warrants aren’t legally enforceable warrants. You need a warrant signed by a judge. It would be so easy to take your rights from you

Did ICE use them under Obama and Biden?

 

[j brown's body]

Did ICE use them under Obama and Biden?

I don't think they had a policy of ICE using state courts to trap immigrants, for the reasons explained in #526. I don't think Bush did either.

 

[dcsports]

The point is, they shouldn't be arresting undocumented immigrants in state courthouses. Because it will lead to immigrants not coming to courthouses, it's self-defeating and it will challenge the ability of these courts to do their jobs.

And again, that's an argument that ICE and the courthouse took into consideration in developing their policy to only target immigrants accused of other crimes, identified in advance. And to not take any action against witnesses, victims, and bystanders. If criminals choose to commit additional crimes by not appearing, that's on them. And regardless, that wasn't in the perview of this judge, and doesn't justify her helping someone evade a lawful arrest.

It isn't bias to note that Trump is attacking the independence of our judiciary. We see it manifested in a number of his strategies.

Trump has zero to do with this case. Again - the man was deported under Obama, came back into the country illegally, and beat up two people over loud music. I would hope he would be detained no matter who was president.

 

[ClaraD]

Did ICE use them under Obama and Biden?

They didn’t show up at courts, churches and schools threatening to arrest people that don’t let them in.

Key Points about ICE Administrative Warrants:

• Not Issued by a Judge: Administrative warrants are signed by an immigration officer, not a judge.
  
  
• Do Not Authorize Entry: They do not give ICE the right to enter private spaces without consent.
  
  
• Public Areas Only: ICE can enter public areas like lobbies and waiting rooms with an administrative warrant.
  
  
• Refuse Entry: You can refuse ICE entry to your home or other private spaces if they only have an administrative warrant.
  
  
• "Administrative Warrant" vs. "Judicial Warrant": A judicial warrant, signed by a judge, is needed to enter private spaces.

 

[Josie]

They didn’t show up at courts, churches and schools threatening to arrest people that don’t let them in.

Key Points about ICE Administrative Warrants:

• Not Issued by a Judge: Administrative warrants are signed by an immigration officer, not a judge.
  
  
• Do Not Authorize Entry: They do not give ICE the right to enter private spaces without consent.
  
  
• Public Areas Only: ICE can enter public areas like lobbies and waiting rooms with an administrative warrant.
  
  
• Refuse Entry: You can refuse ICE entry to your home or other private spaces if they only have an administrative warrant.
  
  
• "Administrative Warrant" vs. "Judicial Warrant": A judicial warrant, signed by a judge, is needed to enter private spaces.

Were the administrative warrants under Biden valid?

 

[ClaraD]

And again, that's an argument that ICE and the courthouse took into consideration in developing their policy to only target immigrants accused of other crimes, identified in advance. And to not take any action against witnesses, victims, and bystanders. If criminals choose to commit additional crimes by not appearing, that's on them. And regardless, that wasn't in the perview of this judge, and doesn't justify her helping someone evade a lawful arrest.


Trump has zero to do with this case. Again - the man was deported under Obama, came back into the country illegally, and beat up two people over loud music. I would hope he would be detained no matter who was president.

So, he shouldn’t be tried by a jury for something he was accused of, just detained and deported right?
The proper way to do this is to put an ICE hold at the jail and once tried, if convicted he serves his time THEN he us turned over to ICE and deported

 

[ClaraD]

View attachment 67569970

Were the administrative warrants under Biden valid?

There was no imminent threat here. Also, AI is frequently wrong and since I don’t use Gemini I can’t read your caption

 

[j brown's body]

And again, that's an argument that ICE and the courthouse took into consideration in developing their policy to only target immigrants accused of other crimes, identified in advance. And to not take any action against witnesses, victims, and bystanders. If criminals choose to commit additional crimes by not appearing, that's on them. And regardless, that wasn't in the perview of this judge, and doesn't justify her helping someone evade a lawful arrest.


Trump has zero to do with this case. Again - the man was deported under Obama, came back into the country illegally, and beat up two people over loud music. I would hope he would be detained no matter who was president.

If criminals don't appear ICE can't catch them there. They're defeating their own purpose.

Far from Trump not being involved, this is part of his broader strategy that includes intimidating judges, siccing his mob on juspdges and their families and extorting lawyers, to strip the judicuary of its indepedence.

 

[dcsports]

Administrative warrants aren’t legally enforceable warrants. You need a warrant signed by a judge. It would be so easy to take your rights from you

That's false, as has been pointed out many times to you. Administrative warrants are different from judicial warrants, and carry differences in enforcement when it comes to private property. But those differences are irrelevant in a public facility, especially given the officers had already cleared the warrant with the courthouse staff.

And again - the judge never challenged legality of the warrant, nor did she have a right to do so. She wasn't a party to it, and it wasn't even being served in her courtroom. She made a scene in the hallway then took extraordinary steps to help the suspect flee.

Worth noting that they returned and presented her with a signed judicial warrant the next day.

Bo they weren’t or they would have reported to the chief justice and got a proper warrant

They were, as the chief judge later confirmed. They presented the warrant and their credentials when they arrived at the courthouse, and followed instructions of the courthouse staff.

No additional warrant was needed, as noted above.

 

[dcsports]

I don't think they had a policy of ICE using state courts to trap immigrants, for the reasons explained in #526. I don't think Bush did either.

Yes, this is a longstanding practice performed under previous administrations. It had also been done in that courthouse.

It's not a trap, but there are good reasons for doing so, as you know.

 

[ClaraD]

That's false, as has been pointed out many times to you. Administrative warrants are different from judicial warrants, and carry differences in enforcement when it comes to private property. But those differences are irrelevant in a public facility, especially given the officers had already cleared the warrant with the courthouse staff.

And again - the judge never challenged legality of the warrant, nor did she have a right to do so. She wasn't a party to it, and it wasn't even being served in her courtroom. She made a scene in the hallway then took extraordinary steps to help the suspect flee.

Worth noting that they returned and presented her with a signed judicial warrant the next day.



They were, as the chief judge later confirmed. They presented the warrant and their credentials when they arrived at the courthouse, and followed instructions of the courthouse staff.

No additional warrant was needed, as noted above.

Yeah an additional one is needed as I pointed out the difference. If they show up to your home with an administrative warrant you will be okay when they bash in the door?

 

[ClaraD]

Yes, this is a longstanding practice performed under previous administrations. It had also been done in that courthouse.

It's not a trap, but there are good reasons for doing so, as you know.

No its not a long standing practice. Its used in GRAVE immediate threat to national security

 

[dcsports]

Key Points about ICE Administrative Warrants:

• Not Issued by a Judge: Administrative warrants are signed by an immigration officer, not a judge.
  
  
• Do Not Authorize Entry: They do not give ICE the right to enter private spaces without consent.
  
  
• Public Areas Only: ICE can enter public areas like lobbies and waiting rooms with an administrative warrant.
  
  
• Refuse Entry: You can refuse ICE entry to your home or other private spaces if they only have an administrative warrant.
  
  
• "Administrative Warrant" vs. "Judicial Warrant": A judicial warrant, signed by a judge, is needed to enter private spaces.

Thank you for covering the differences. Note that none of that applied in this case.

 

[ClaraD]

Thank you for covering the differences. Note that none of that applied in this case.

Her courtroom isn’t a public hallway

 

[Josie]

There was no imminent threat here. Also, AI is frequently wrong and since I don’t use Gemini I can’t read your caption

Were the administrative warrants during the Biden admin valid?

 

[dcsports]

So, he shouldn’t be tried by a jury for something he was accused of, just detained and deported right?
The proper way to do this is to put an ICE hold at the jail and once tried, if convicted he serves his time THEN he us turned over to ICE and deported

He should absolutely be tried by a jury for both the state and federal crimes in this case. That's the normal practice.

That would be the practice, if he was held in state custody. The state had already released him on bail - which is appropriate given the type of crimes. The arrest was for his federal crime of unlawful re-entry. Normal practice would be to hold him in federal custody and present him for hearings and trial as required.

 

[Josie]

No its not a long standing practice. Its used in GRAVE immediate threat to national security

You said they aren’t legally enforceable. You walking that back now?

 

[dcsports]

Yeah an additional one is needed as I pointed out the difference. If they show up to your home with an administrative warrant you will be okay when they bash in the door?

You pointed out the difference, and did so again here. No home was involved. It was a public space, and they had permission to be there. And again, the judge had no standing to challenge the warrant, and didn't try to do so.

If someone shows up at my house, I don't have to allow them in. However, I can't tell them the person is down the street and sneak him over the neighbor's fence.

 

[ClaraD]

You said they aren’t legally enforceable. You walking that back now?

They aren’t. They simply allow them to walk down the street and arrest someone they are looking for…something they could already do WITHOUT the paper

 

[dcsports]

No its not a long standing practice.

It is a practice.

Its used in GRAVE immediate threat to national security

False, but feel free to provide a source for that.

 

[dcsports]

Her courtroom isn’t a public hallway

Her FORMER courtroom was open to the public, and they had permission to be in the public courthouse to conduct the arrest. And again, they weren't conducting the arrest in her courtroom.