Middleground in the Abortion Debate

[AGENT J]

Whatever gets you through the night.


It boggles the mind ...

Followed soon by: http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/121584-middleground-abortion-debate-59.html#post1060330075
Here the sophister sets up the straw man of "human being" as the eventual false comparison conclusion and begins the attempted first comparison premise by falsely equating the living human organism zygote to a series of non-organismic cells.

Without question his effort of sophistry, a classic example in the abortion conflict, is a clear and obvious attempt to negate the individual entity living human organism status of the zygote.

It does, however, not surprise me either that his sophistry fooled you .. or that you chose not to "see" it.

WTH? LMAO

you do realize that you offered ZERO proof or facts that your usage of the words are infarct his right?? You havent showed one shred of evidence that he thinks a ZEF is not a human organism?


sorry I will ocntinue to stick to FACTS instead of you bias fantasy that you make up in your head LMAO

Ill keep waitig for proof that some how YOU magically know that when a person uses the word individual that you and only YOU get to decide how they mean it.

Wow your dishonesty is astounding, so is the irony in your thread when you talk about being fooled LMAO

AGain please let me know when you can proof what I have asked of you, ill keep waiting. I KNEW this was going to be entertaining

 

[Ontologuy]

WTH? LMAO

you do realize that you offered ZERO proof or facts that your usage of the words are infarct his right?? You havent showed one shred of evidence that he thinks a ZEF is not a human organism?


sorry I will ocntinue to stick to FACTS instead of you bias fantasy that you make up in your head LMAO

Ill keep waitig for proof that some how YOU magically know that when a person uses the word individual that you and only YOU get to decide how they mean it.

Wow your dishonesty is astounding, so is the irony in your thread when you talk about being fooled LMAO

AGain please let me know when you can proof what I have asked of you, ill keep waiting. I KNEW this was going to be entertaining

Oh, I never expected his fellow denialistic sophister to accept the truth I just presented, I just wanted to make sure it got presented.

I simply expected you to play the cheerleading court jester .. and you, true to form, didn't disappoint. :lol:

 

[AGENT J]

Oh, I never expected his fellow denialistic sophister to accept the truth I just presented, I just wanted to make sure it got presented.

I simply expected you to play the cheerleading court jester .. and you, true to form, didn't disappoint. :lol:

translation: you still have ZERO proof about what you falsely accused him of and now since you have no logical avenues to take you resort to failed insults. This is very common for people that make stuff up:laughat:

Its amazing when people lie and think objective rational people will just accept it lol

Ill wait, maybe you will elect to be civil and actually use facts, realty and logic to back up your false claims :shrug:

 

[sangha]

That may be correct. Not being a member of the right wing or affiliated with the republican party in any way, I'm not exactly up-to-the-second briefed on their talking points. Should you care to source anything they're saying which you believe to be relevant to the discussion, I invite you to do so.

Nonsense. According to numbers linked to on this thread already, 83-88% of the general public, who would include the majority of the Right, support BC.

The objection is only about who's going to pay for it.

The info has already been sourced in this thread. No matter how many times the facts are posted, some will deny reality when it contradicts their beliefs.

 

[Jerry]

The info has already been sourced in this thread. No matter how many times the facts are posted, some will deny reality when it contradicts their beliefs.

I picture a kid and his parent in the livingroom:

Kid: I like legos.
Parent: Ok, cool.
Kid: I want Legos.
Parent: Save your allowance and go buy some.
Kid: No I want a lot of legos RIGHT NOW you should go buy me all the legos I want!
Parent: If you want toys then you need to buy them with your own money, I have bills to pay.
Kid: OMG you're anti-lego!
Older-brother(= church): I hate legos. You shouldn't buy legos because you don't clean them up and I step on them.
Parent: He can buy legos if he uses his own money, and yes he'll have to clean them up regardles.
Kid: OMG I hate this family you're all anti-lego! *kicks dog*

 

[sangha]

I picture a kid and his parent in the livingroom:

Kid: I like legos.
Parent: Ok, cool.
Kid: I want Legos.
Parent: Save your allowance and go buy some.
Kid: No I want a lot of legos RIGHT NOW you should go buy me all the legos I want!
Parent: If you want toys then you need to buy them with your own money, I have bills to pay.
Kid: OMG you're anti-lego!
Older-brother(= church): I hate legos. You shouldn't buy legos because you don't clean them up and I step on them.
Parent: He can buy legos if he uses his own money, and yes he'll have to clean them up regardles.
Kid: OMG I hate this family you're all anti-lego! *kicks dog*

Some people think their fictions are more important than the facts

 

[mac]

You have to take the "a" out of "a human" to be correct. Read Minnie616's link or go explore scientific sources on twinning. For those first two weeks, the multiple cells are not really "an embryo" because every cell has the potential to become a distinct embryo. Also, most of them are going to be naturally destroyed.

No, I would not. A growing, developing, living organism with human DNA is A human.

 

[mac]

What degrees do you have in these subjects? I at least have a grad degree in a field in which human biology is required study.

My degrees are in Sociology, History and Intelligence Management. I did do quite a bit of biology related study when I was pre-med before switching to sociology, though. Your point? What we are discussing here was covered in high school.

 

[mac]

It is not a full human. It is in the developmental stage.

I hate to break it to you, but we are in various developmental stages throughout life. Not a "full human"? Sounds quite discriminatory, doesn't it?

A human, is a bipedal hominid, fully sapient and independent.

A fetus is not.

Neither is a new born. You need to re-think this approach.

 

[AGENT J]

You have to take the "a" out of "a human" to be correct. Read Minnie616's link or go explore scientific sources on twinning. For those first two weeks, the multiple cells are not really "an embryo" because every cell has the potential to become a distinct embryo. Also, most of them are going to be naturally destroyed.

this is true but will go ignored by many, I have no problem when people misuse words or use words has slang but when they are told they are factually wrong and wont accept that fact then they are simply being dishonest or are delusional. :shrug:

 

[mac]

this is true but will go ignored by many, I have no problem when people misuse words or use words has slang but when they are told they are factually wrong and wont accept that fact then they are simply being dishonest or are delusional. :shrug:

It's far from true. :shrug:

 

[Thunder]

No, I would not. A growing, developing, living organism with human DNA is A human.

no its not.

 

[AGENT J]

It's far from true. :shrug:

you are welcome to that wrong opinion :shrug:

 

[mac]

no its not.

Of course it is.

naa...we can just keep debating while I educate myself on the side.

 

[mac]

you are welcome to that wrong opinion :shrug:

Really...what would you call a living, growing organism with human DNA?

 

[AGENT J]

Really...what would you call a living, growing organism with human DNA?

human as and adj and not "A" human as a noun.

thanks for playing LOL

 

[Thunder]

Really...what would you call a living, growing organism with human DNA?

you mean this thing?

I call it a blob of human cells.

 

[Ontologuy]

you mean this thing?

I call it a blob of human cells.

Science calls it a living human organism.

You're over 35 years behind.

 

[AGENT J]

Science calls it a living human organism.

You're over 35 years behind.

NOW I see how you come to the false conclusion theres "lots" of people around that font think a ZEF is a human organism, YOU MAKE IT UP IN YOUR HEAD! lol

I mean unless that poster has said previously somewhere else there is NO logical OBJECTIVE reason what so ever to assume he disagrees with what you said.

He "might" but theres no evidence of it in the thread you qouted LMAO

 

[Jerry]

you mean this thing?

I call it a blob of human cells.

How many of those do women abort each year?

 

[AGENT J]

How many of those do women abort each year?

1 to 2 million :shrug:

 

[Jerry]

1 to 2 million :shrug:

And which abortion procedure do they use?

 

[Jerry]

I ask because most induced abortions are performed on ZEFs a few weeks further along then your picture. I was wondering if you were simply mistaken with the inaccurate pic or if you were trying to lie about what an aborted ZEF actually looks like.

You should be using a pic at 4 weeks, like this:

....and yes, that's a human organism, not a mere clump of cells.

 

[Jerry]

The real answer to abortion can not be found in the courts, but through your own actions:

On average, women give at least ​

3 reasons for choosing abortion

: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).​

Gay couples have it right: simply wait. Establish yourself, your education, career, etc. Wait until you have a loving, stable marriage. That's it. Problem solved. No need to take this to SCOTUS or further divide the nation. Just wait until you're ready.

 

[Peter King]

I ask because most induced abortions are performed on ZEFs a few weeks further along then your picture. I was wondering if you were simply mistaken with the inaccurate pic or if you were trying to lie about what an aborted ZEF actually looks like.

You should be using a pic at 4 weeks, like this:

....and yes, that's a human organism, not a mere clump of cells.

actually, it is not a human organism, it has no viability, it is not alive.