Michael Moore calls Flint a crime scene, demands arrest of Gov. Snyder

[imyoda]

That's really hard to believe when you seem to take every single liberal position, and attack every single conservative position, given the posts that I've read from you over the last few months.

A fine example of balanced and factual reporting is supposed to come from a headline of 'Watch: ACLU Video Nails Corrupt, Lying GOP Governor To The Wall (VIDEO) «' - Yeah, in your imagination only. Yet again, not very conservative of you.

How about Joe Friday: 'The facts, just the facts', and not the accusatory invective? (from the cited articles). So thanks, but no.

I'm gonna wait for the AG's investigation to conclude, and his final report. If there's been gross negligence, it should be criminally charged, regardless of whom.

From the information others have shared and what I've read, it seems to be somewhere between the Flint City Council, and the appointed EM. I highly doubt that the EM would shutdown the City council's concerns about not extending or negotiating Detroit water service for the few more months / years until the KWA was complete and in service, the same way that I don't think the EM's concerns about that would have been shutdown by the city council. There's more to context of this story between these two and how this happenstance came to be. I don't think that depth of details are going to be easily forthcoming, nor easily assembled. I'll wait for the AG's post-investigation report, thanks.

What you doubt is not the critical thinking one should use.............It is called "to assume" and we both know the end of that story..........

Further more, I doubt many here find your opinion/assumptions of me and the what/how of my posts germane..............and sure you know I am not the subject being discussed here..........

If you continue I will be forced to report the infraction

 

[Stopandthink]

The operant word is INITIALLY............It takes time for the chemical reaction between the salty acidic river water and lead pipe to leach the lead into the drinking water.........and if the ones' responsible look the other way .........there is no problem...........

It took a local Dr. using her own money and time to run the tests and examining children to make the problem known........and when she did........was attacked as a quack by the Governor.......

This is an outrageous case/example of where folks should go to jail ............

The water testing had documented high TTHM levels(which is not rare, many municipalities have these chlorine problems) which were addressed. The lead levels in children put forward by the local hospital have been disputed by many state and city experts, and were never cited on earlier water testing reports.

 

[imyoda]

The water testing had documented high TTHM levels(which is not rare, many municipalities have these chlorine problems) which were addressed. The lead levels in children put forward by the local hospital have been disputed by many state and city experts, and were never cited on earlier water testing reports.

They earlier testing reports of the levels of lead were the result of submitting fraudulent/doctored samples.............Read the information/reports I cited above

 

[eohrnberger]

The water testing had documented high TTHM levels(which is not rare, many municipalities have these chlorine problems) which were addressed. The lead levels in children put forward by the local hospital have been disputed by many state and city experts, and were never cited on earlier water testing reports.

This seems to be an accurate recounting of the timeline facts we know to date. I'm sure that there'll be more as the AG investigation proceeds and uncovers them.

If this is indeed the fact, then it would seem to deflate the criminal accusations that are being carelessly bandied about by Moore and other Democratic operatives looking for political advantage.

To date, the reports of any report or results doctoring haven't been proven and haven't been reported by an unbiased and / or credible source.

It will be interesting when the final report comes out with the official accounting. As I've posted before, if criminality if found it needs to be charged, regardless of whom if found to have been criminal.

 

[eohrnberger]

Your claim (or rather, your cousin's) claim that pollution is worse near "Democratic strongholds" is painfully idiotic. Pollution is worse near CITIES which are overwhelmingly Democratic.

Kinda was thinking that pollution is worse around any city of any significant size, mainly because of the density of people, the higher the density of people the greater the density of the amount they consume and the greater the amount of their waste and discards which has to be handled properly. Bound to be some that slips through the net and into the environment.

 

[vesper]

Your claim (or rather, your cousin's) claim that pollution is worse near "Democratic strongholds" is painfully idiotic. Pollution is worse near CITIES which are overwhelmingly Democratic.

No it isn't idiotic when you discern the facts.
The city in question is Flint. It is Democratic stronghold. It is recorded that this city knows it has a raw sewage problem being dumped into the Flint River. Anything North of Flint tests clean and safe. And everyone has known about it for over a decade.
The Democratic stronghold in question has been on emergency fiscal aid twice in the last decade. Why? Costs in handling criminal activity for one as Flint is considered one of the worst cities in the U.S. due to crime. It's hard to build businesses in such areas so the welfare rate is very high in that city as well. It is a city that takes a lot of money in a state budget because of their social issues. And at the end of the day after paying for all the needed money to address their social needs leaves no money to fix their raw sewage problem.

Now we have a Michael Moore placing the blame on the current residing Republican governor as his fault that the Flint River has become so polluted. What a piece of partisan **** he is. As the problem was never even addressed by the former Democrat Governor Granholm the eight years it was a problem when she resided as governor even though she was well aware the problem existed. Yet the current Republican governor is the one who requested federal aid to assist Flint because he was handed a feckless, unbelievable, fiscal mess from the previous Democratic governor Jennifer Granholm. Obama complied with the federal aid.

Lesson- when your elected officials do not put the public health safety first and continue to be dedicated to special interests of welfare in a city that is sticking it to the state in expenses not just in welfare but over high crime rates also, you may end up with a sewage problem that makes people sick and at risk because the asshole mayors elected by the people didn't address the issue but instead passed out the bennies among the masses in turn made the mayor and their represented party popular among the masses.

 

[Stopandthink]

They earlier testing reports of the levels of lead were the result of submitting fraudulent/doctored samples.............Read the information/reports I cited above

There is no credible/proven evidence of misconduct at this time to support your CT

 

[Eric7216]

This should be interesting as information comes out. As I currently understand it, the EPA knew about the program perhaps a year ago and buried the study while they wondered about what to do about it.
Good that Gov Snyder requested federal disaster assistance when he discovered the problem and good that Pres Obama complied.

Interesting whether Snyder or Obama get more heat from this. Up to now, Obama has been spared any damage done by his underlings. I would think this should give us second thoughts about federal agencies not working directly with or for governors if they are working in that state. Or why the EPA is involved in state issues.
The EPA knew about Flint?s toxic water for months and didn?t tell anyone « Hot Air

 

[Eric7216]

The problem with your links about the EPA notifying the state in November is that the EPA knew about the problem c. 9 months prior to that.
"EPA official Susan Hedman did not publicize the EPA’s concern over Flint’s water quality or the water’s dangerous health concerns. The federal agency instead quietly fought with the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality for at least six months about what should be done.

EPA water expert, Miguel Del Toral, identified potential contamination problems with Flint’s drinking water last February and confirmed the suspicions in April. He authored an internal memo about the problem in June"
The EPA knew about Flint?s toxic water for months and didn?t tell anyone « Hot Air

 

[imyoda]

There is no credible/proven evidence of misconduct at this time to support your CT

Please.................I cited sources which supported what I said.................Can you provide links in support of what you say from responsible and responsible sources?

If not........further discussion would be pointless

 

[danarhea]

Um, no. The plan should have been negotiated but the emergency manager declined such negotiations.

Exactly. Some people putting politics ahead of the lives of children is noted.

 

[Moot]

Kobie please try to keep up. Officials have known for some time that illegal dumping of waste was coming out of Flint. It wasn't industrial waste but untreated sewage.

Then the city manager appointed by Snyder should've known the Flint River was polluted before he switched Flint's water source from Detroit to the Flint River...right?

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Thoughts?

Michael Moore calls Flint a crime scene, demands arrest of Gov. Snyder | MLive.com

I'm cool with that, as long as Moore gets horse whipped for ruining the documentary movie field.

 

[Moot]

The water testing had documented high TTHM levels(which is not rare, many municipalities have these chlorine problems) which were addressed. The lead levels in children put forward by the local hospital have been disputed by many state and city experts, and were never cited on earlier water testing reports.

The lead levels in children were disputed because Snyder's team of experts were trying to sweep it under the rug. It was a pediatrician that first sounded the alarm about the high lead levels in children and infants.

 

[minnie616]

Your claim (or rather, your cousin's) claim that pollution is worse near "Democratic strongholds" is painfully idiotic. Pollution is worse near CITIES which are overwhelmingly Democratic.

Exactly.
The Northern lower peninsula of Michigan has been a very Republican stronghold for the past 60 years or so.
That did not stop the Cheboygan River ( which then affected the WATER QUALITY OF THE
UPPER GREAT LAKES) from becoming polluted from the Charmin paper company whose factory was located on that river.

http://agrienvarchive.ca/download/wat_qual_upper_great_lakes.pdf

It is factories and other factors caused by large populations that caused the past pollution of Rivers in/near cities ....not the ideology of the past mayor/ mayors

 

[joG]

The city's elders do not exist. They were all fired and replaced with Snyder's cronies, long BEFORE the decision which resulted in poisoning the water was made.

How did that work? Was the city in receivership?

 

[joG]

The city elders were taken out of the decision making.

Maybe I missed it, but how was this done?

 

[Stopandthink]

The lead levels in children were disputed because Snyder's team of experts were trying to sweep it under the rug. It was a pediatrician that first sounded the alarm about the high lead levels in children and infants.

Believe me, I live not too far from the area and have some business contacts involved with the DEQ, there is ALOT of falsifications going around that need to be addressed which are seriously hindering the actual investigation. Right now, as far as I know, there are no honest professionals involved that have uncovered any evidence or intent of a conspiracy coverup.

 

[minnie616]

Maybe I missed it, but how was this done?

Under Gov. Snyder's recommendation the mostly republican congress of Michigan passed a law during a lame -duck session ( which was rejected by voters ) which allowed the Gov. To appoint Emergency City Manager to save money.

Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder signed a revised version of a controversial emergency manager law Thursday that was rejected by voters during the November election.

...
Both houses of the state legislature approved the bill during the lame-duck session. The new law takes effect 90 days after the end of this year's legislative session, according to Bloomberg.com.

 

[Stopandthink]

Maybe I missed it, but how was this done?

Emergency managers have been implemented to try to solve the city's budget crisis, but the discussion of using the flint river as a water source is nothing new, it had been discussed by leadership for many years. The city council was not opposed to the decision, as they had plans to connect to their own Huron pipeline this year anyway.

 

[joG]

Under Gov. Snyder's recommendation the mostly republican congress of Michigan passed a law during a lame -duck session ( which was rejected by voters ) which allowed the Gov. To appoint Emergency City Manager to save money.

Thx. But I guess I will have to look it up more closely.

 

[minnie616]

Thx. But I guess I will have to look it up more closely.

I was one of the Michigan voters who rejected the Emergency Manager plan that was on the ballot.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

The whole reaosn someone had to come in was unfettered and unaccountable government.

Having one person call the shots is highly undemocratic. These people NEVER had a chance to vote about the water. It was decided for them without their input or even their knowledge. If this alone is not disturbing, then I'm dumbfounded. This is the definition of unaccountable government.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

The lead levels in children were disputed because Snyder's team of experts were trying to sweep it under the rug. It was a pediatrician that first sounded the alarm about the high lead levels in children and infants.

Yes, and this is why each one of them should be prosecuted. This does not sound like human error but something that was calculated. The results were redone until they could pass muster.

 

[Renae]

Having one person call the shots is highly undemocratic. These people NEVER had a chance to vote about the water. It was decided for them without their input or even their knowledge. If this alone is not disturbing, then I'm dumbfounded. This is the definition of unaccountable government.

You blame the cure to the problem that caused the cure to be used...

Okay, so what was the solution? Not do anything? Let Detroit implode entirely?