• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Michael Moore calls Flint a crime scene, demands arrest of Gov. Snyder


Still doesn't answer the question. Who, and why, did DWSD terminate the contract early, before the KWA pipeline was completed and in operation?

This is what forced Flint to activate their backup plan using the Flint river water. And if Flint / EM had chosen to continue purchasing water from DWSD, at what rate would it have been purchased at?

We already have on record that Detroit wanted a $4M re-connect fee, so safe to say that Detroit wanted to exploit Flint's dire situation, almost extortion is seems like. Flint might not have been able to pay that, and, from what it appears, the Flint river solution with heavy treatment, had a good probability of providing safe water. Just that it didn't turn out that way.
 
The decline of Detroit via population and job loss began firmly and swiftly in the decade of the Fifties and the city had TWO Republicans as mayor during that time.

Then since the 50's Detroit has had how many Democrat mayors to fix the problem?
 
So why did Detroit Sewer and Water make the decision to cut off Flint from clean drinking water before the KWA was ready to service it's customers / members?

Seems to me that this is the onset of the troubles, and the backup plan for getting water from the Flint river.

Detroit Sewer and Water made no such decision.

The City’s contract with Detroit was set to expire in April 2014, at least eighteen months before the KWA pipeline was scheduled to be completed.8 Faced with a year-and-a half gap in the City’s water supply, the Emergency Manager declined to negotiate a short term contract with Detroit and decided instead to use the Flint River as a primary drinking water source.9 The City had previously explored—and rejected—the Flint River as a primary drinking-water source. This is because the Flint Water Treatment Plant would have required fifty million dollars in upgrades to treat the river water and “produce finished water in conformance with the current federal and state drinking water regulations.”10 http://flintwaterstudy.org/wp-conte...-SDWA-Notice-of-Intent-to-Sue-Flint-FINAL.pdf
 
Arrests, no. Class action lawsuits and restitution, absolutely.
 
So why did city after city after city lose their tax base?

Greetings, haymarket. :2wave:

This is just a guess, but jobs our workers used to do to make money, and they paid taxes on the money they earned, are now being done by workers in other countries around the world. Didn't GM just build another new plant in Mexico recently? I wonder how many more jobs will be lost as a result of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement that was just signed? :shock:
 
Right, so do you agree that Governor Snyder should face consequences or no?
Anyone with their fingerprints on this disaster should face consequences, whether it's city, state, or county officials. I'm hearing it's not just the gov who needs to be taking heat.
 
Greetings, haymarket. :2wave:

This is just a guess, but jobs our workers used to do to make money, and they paid taxes on the money they earned, are now being done by workers in other countries around the world. Didn't GM just build another new plant in Mexico recently? I wonder how many more jobs will be lost as a result of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement that was just signed? :shock:


There was a lot more to it than jobs going overseas. The Detroit City government was radical when Coleman Young was at the helm.. He chased off a lot of citizens and businesses with his rhetoric, of which I won't repeat on this forum. He was a real piece of work.
 
There was a lot more to it than jobs going overseas. The Detroit City government was radical when Coleman Young was at the helm.. He chased off a lot of citizens and businesses with his rhetoric, of which I won't repeat on this forum. He was a real piece of work.

Greetings, RetiredUSN. :2wave:

What options are available to the people in the City of Flint now? If that new waterline project isn't going to be ready for months, what are they supposed to do in the interim? And where is the $4m reconnect fee going to come from? They apparently don't have the money....

I recall reading about the Coleman Young scandals when he was mayor of Detroit.... :eek:
 
C'mon pards........you really believe that? There are plenty of common sense democrats, and plenty of common sense republicans. The truth usually lies some wheres in the middle.

Do I really believe what?
 
It’s reported that the EPA knew for months, can we now blame the black kid in charge?

I think you might have Michigan's state environmental protection agency confused with the federal EPA.
 
Last edited:
Then since the 50's Detroit has had how many Democrat mayors to fix the problem?


What are you saying without saying?

The recent problem with the Flint water was caused by democrat mayor holding office since 1950..........


REALLY:bs
 
Correction....Gov.Rick Snyder appointed an Emergency City Manager for Flint who took control away from city council appointed mayor/city manager.

From the following article:

It was also announced that Gov. Snyder appointed Mike Brown to succeed Ed Kurtz as the emergency manager in Flint.

Kurtz is retiring on July 3, 2013 and Brown will become emergency manager on Independence day.

Gov. Snyder appoints an emergency manager in Hamtramck, Flint EM replacement also announced | Michigan Radio

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"


Is it the same guy? Or just coincidence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Brown
 
Last edited:
Then since the 50's Detroit has had how many Democrat mayors to fix the problem?

How are Democrat (or Republican) mayors supposed to fix the auto industry?
 
That was the Detroit EM, also appointed by Snyderly Whiplash.
Nope.
Detroit Sewer and Water made no such decision.

The City’s contract with Detroit was set to expire in April 2014, at least eighteen months before the KWA pipeline was scheduled to be completed.8 Faced with a year-and-a half gap in the City’s water supply, the Emergency Manager declined to negotiate a short term contract with Detroit and decided instead to use the Flint River as a primary drinking water source.9 The City had previously explored—and rejected—the Flint River as a primary drinking-water source. This is because the Flint Water Treatment Plant would have required fifty million dollars in upgrades to treat the river water and “produce finished water in conformance with the current federal and state drinking water regulations.”10 http://flintwaterstudy.org/wp-conte...-SDWA-Notice-of-Intent-to-Sue-Flint-FINAL.pdf

OK, then Flint city council really screwed up here, allowing an existing contract with Detroit Sewer and Water expire, not be extended, even before they had a hope in hell of getting water from KWA. I'd call that a major **** up. One that forced them into the backup plan getting and treating water from the Flint river.
 
How are Democrat (or Republican) mayors supposed to fix the auto industry?
The same way Democrat or Republican Presidents can stop terrorism dead in it's tracks. :roll:
 
Nope.


OK, then Flint city council really screwed up here, allowing an existing contract with Detroit Sewer and Water expire, not be extended, even before they had a hope in hell of getting water from KWA. I'd call that a major **** up. One that forced them into the backup plan getting and treating water from the Flint river.

Um, no. The plan should have been negotiated but the emergency manager declined such negotiations.
 
You know people like Michael Moore are the worst kind. Here he is calling for Snyder's head a Republican because of the pollution in the Flint river yet clear back in 2000 under a Republican governor Engler the river was being tested to determine where the sources of the pollution were coming from. They learned there were several illegal sewer lines dumping into the river. You know before septic tanks and treatment of raw sewage is a relatively new concept. Prior to them that farmers and rural lands along the river dumped their raw sewage into the river. Cities did too. They had tunnels under the city and all the collective flushes ended up in the river untreated. That's what cities all over this country did and then used the same river for their drinking water. EWEEEEEE!. In 2000 under Engler this testing was complicated when a utility busted a sewer line and sewage poured into the river for days till they could fix it. They began monitoring the river even more closely because of the high level of e-coli found in the water after the spill. This occurred in 2000.

Now the city of Flint has been a Democratic stronghold for ions. In the mid-2000s, it became known for its high crime rates and has been ranked among the "Most Dangerous Cities in the United States", with a per capita violent crime rate seven times higher than the national average. The city was under a state of financial emergency from 2011 to 2015, the second in a decade. . Is it me or do Democratic stronghold cities go into state of financial emergencies when a Republican governor is elected?


James Blanchard
January 1, 1983 January 1, 1991 Democratic
John Engler
January 1, 1991 January 1, 2003 Republican
Jennifer Granholm
January 1, 2003 January 1, 2011 Democratic
Rick Snyder
January 1, 2011 Incumbent Republican


Flint River still roils with pollution

In recent history the fact of the matter Governor Jennifer Granholm (D) a huge supporter of Obama (please do a search on her) was in office as governor for two terms and well aware of the problems in the Flint River. That there were illegal sewage lines dumping into the river and it has been monitored for over a decade. For eight years she did not solve the problem. The testing concluded that everything North of Flint, the water was testing good and safe. I personally think the problem truly lies with the city itself. I think the city isn't up to code of their waste management. And if so, a Democratic stronghold that has already been declared a state of emergency twice in a decade can't afford to take care of their problem and neither does Snyder have the funds due to the feckless fiscal mess he inherited. But Obama has come through with federal aid.
Flint Mayor ‘Happy, Thankful’ After Obama Approves Federal Aid « CBS Detroit

Now as someone who lives in Ohio and has vacationed in Michigan all my life knows that state has probably one of the most bodies of pristine waters than just about any other state. In their lakes you can swim out to breast deep, stand up and still see your feet and the fish swimming around you. But on a river near a Democratic stronghold named Flint located on the Flint river seems to have an illegal sewage problem because anything North of Flint is full of good water. But because this Democratic stronghold could not take care of their own problem, Obama is sending our taxdollars collectively to save the day!
 
You know people like Michael Moore are the worst kind. Here he is calling for Snyder's head a Republican because of the pollution in the Flint river yet clear back in 2000 under a Republican governor Engler the river was being tested to determine where the sources of the pollution were coming from. They learned there were several illegal sewer lines dumping into the river. You know before septic tanks and treatment of raw sewage is a relatively new concept. Prior to them that farmers and rural lands along the river dumped their raw sewage into the river. Cities did too. They had tunnels under the city and all the collective flushes ended up in the river untreated. That's what cities all over this country did and then used the same river for their drinking water. EWEEEEEE!. In 2000 under Engler this testing was complicated when a utility busted a sewer line and sewage poured into the river for days till they could fix it. They began monitoring the river even more closely because of the high level of e-coli found in the water after the spill. This occurred in 2000.

Now the city of Flint has been a Democratic stronghold for ions. In the mid-2000s, it became known for its high crime rates and has been ranked among the "Most Dangerous Cities in the United States", with a per capita violent crime rate seven times higher than the national average. The city was under a state of financial emergency from 2011 to 2015, the second in a decade. . Is it me or do Democratic stronghold cities go into state of financial emergencies when a Republican governor is elected?


James Blanchard
January 1, 1983 January 1, 1991 Democratic
John Engler
January 1, 1991 January 1, 2003 Republican
Jennifer Granholm
January 1, 2003 January 1, 2011 Democratic
Rick Snyder
January 1, 2011 Incumbent Republican


Flint River still roils with pollution

In recent history the fact of the matter Governor Jennifer Granholm (D) a huge supporter of Obama (please do a search on her) was in office as governor for two terms and well aware of the problems in the Flint River. That there were illegal sewage lines dumping into the river and it has been monitored for over a decade. For eight years she did not solve the problem. The testing concluded that everything North of Flint, the water was testing good and safe. I personally think the problem truly lies with the city itself. I think the city isn't up to code of their waste management. And if so, a Democratic stronghold that has already been declared a state of emergency twice in a decade can't afford to take care of their problem and neither does Snyder have the funds due to the feckless fiscal mess he inherited. But Obama has come through with federal aid.
Flint Mayor ‘Happy, Thankful’ After Obama Approves Federal Aid « CBS Detroit

Now as someone who lives in Ohio and has vacationed in Michigan all my life knows that state has probably one of the most bodies of pristine waters than just about any other state. In their lakes you can swim out to breast deep, stand up and still see your feet and the fish swimming around you. But on a river near a Democratic stronghold named Flint located on the Flint river seems to have an illegal sewage problem because anything North of Flint is full of good water. But because this Democratic stronghold could not take care of their own problem, Obama is sending our taxdollars collectively to save the day!

What.
 



Film making is not what the obese Mr. Moore does, what he does is drive-by slander. I doubt very much Canada's CBC has any kind of political stake on this, but their report laid the blame on city council, who were trying to save money. Why the fat **** would call for the governor's head is beyond understanding. The clip I heard had some resident blubbering "we need FEDERAL help here...."

Why is it the first place they turn is Washington?
 
Then since the 50's Detroit has had how many Democrat mayors to fix the problem?

uh.... you really don't get it do you? :doh:shock:

btw- Detroits mayors are elected without benefit of running on a party.
 
Greetings, haymarket. :2wave:

This is just a guess, but jobs our workers used to do to make money, and they paid taxes on the money they earned, are now being done by workers in other countries around the world. Didn't GM just build another new plant in Mexico recently? I wonder how many more jobs will be lost as a result of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement that was just signed? :shock:

the short answer is TOO MANY.
 
WHO KNEW WHAT AND WHEN THEY KNEW IT.........



The Governor’s Administration Falsified Documents, Rigged Tests in Flint Water Reports for months before EPA issued a dire warning for Flint last fall for Michigan residents concerning the threat of a new, large-scale lead release into the city’s water supply. Further, a new EPA report warns of potential large-scale lead releases in Flint water
New EPA report warns of potential large-scale lead releases in Flint water | MLive.com

It suggests the Governor was aware of the water problem in Flint as early as April 2014 when they quietly issued GM the right not to use Flint water and supply their own water.
Watch: ACLU Video Nails Corrupt, Lying GOP Governor To The Wall (VIDEO) «


The state on a regular basis in making required reports to EPA purposely omitted some samples that tested above the EPA limit for lead, in order to avoid raising red flags at the EPA.

The way the samples were collected is also illegal. Federal law mandates that samples be collected from areas of the city which are most likely to be affected. Instead, it appears that Snyder officials purposely sought out an area of the city that was least likely to show a problem, and collected a large portion of the samples from that area only.

Federal law also requires water samples be collected from homes that previously tested above the safe drinking water limit for lead. Instead, samples were only collected from homes that tested low in 2014.

Thanks to the Michigan ACLU there is more than enough evidence to show that Michigan officials deliberately colluded to deceive the public. In doing so they caused immeasurably harm to thousands of Flint citizens, mainly of them infants and children. This cannot simply be another miserable GOP failure that “blows over” with time.
Lead Astray: An ACLU of Michigan Investigation Has Found a Stream of Irregularities in Flint?s Water Tests - Michigan Democracy Watch Blog

No two ways about it........... Snyder Administration was aware of the problem early on.............did all they could to cover up the "poison water"........failed to acknowledge reports from EPA and health professionals.....and in several news conferences assured the public the water was safe to drink..........


I cannot think of a overly harsh punishment worthy for scumbags responsible for knowingly poisoning the kids od Flint......
 
Please repeat after me.

"Because of foreign competition in the auto industry leading to the '08 crash.

By the 08 crash, lots and lots and lots of water had already gone over the bridge. That was just the period at the end of a sentence.
 
Back
Top Bottom