Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisphere

[code1211]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

It looks like it perfectly matches his graph when you disregard El Nino warming, the blue line, which should be disregarded anyhow.

Your ability to count degrees is wanting.

 

[Threegoofs]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Whatever happened to the line about how "no one disputes global warming, just the mechanism'? Or does that just come out when they are shown to be utterly wrong?

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Please link to any post I have made in response to that uses WUWT.

This is not photographic evidence which is what i asked for.

Coherent enough for you?

How do you think satellites measure sea level rise?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

A few of the many links to various websites using that graph:

File:Recent Sea Level Rise.png - Global Warming Art

Sea level rise over the next 2000 years

GLOBAL WARMING AND RISING SEA LEVELS | Facts and Details

Climate Change and Sea Level Rise - Windows to the Universe

Is Sea Level Rise Accelerating? | Watts Up With That?

Update:

Thanks.

 

[code1211]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

How do you think satellites measure sea level rise?

I would assume they do it pretty accurately. That is why they show the the level of the sea is not like the surface of a marble but is in fact variable for numerous reasons.

The fear mongers of the AGW Science propaganda say the the ocean will rise and engulf the coastal cites completely covering various areas.

The ocean should have risen by about 1 foot since 1600. Where is the evidence of the rise that we have been told has already occurred?

Here's another prediction. I'm just asking for the documentation. With a problem this certain and this imminent, there should be irrefutable visual evidence.

More than 1,700 U.S. cities will be partially underwater by 2100: study | The Raw Story

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

I would assume they do it pretty accurately. That is why they show the the level of the sea is not like the surface of a marble but is in fact variable for numerous reasons.

The fear mongers of the AGW Science propaganda say the the ocean will rise and engulf the coastal cites completely covering various areas.

The ocean should have risen by about 1 foot since 1600. Where is the evidence of the rise that we have been told has already occurred?

Here's another prediction. I'm just asking for the documentation. With a problem this certain and this imminent, there should be irrefutable visual evidence.

More than 1,700 U.S. cities will be partially underwater by 2100: study | The Raw Story

Wrong answer. They use images, which is "the photographic evidence you asked for."

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

I would assume they do it pretty accurately. That is why they show the the level of the sea is not like the surface of a marble but is in fact variable for numerous reasons.

The fear mongers of the AGW Science propaganda say the the ocean will rise and engulf the coastal cites completely covering various areas.

The ocean should have risen by about 1 foot since 1600. Where is the evidence of the rise that we have been told has already occurred?

Here's another prediction. I'm just asking for the documentation. With a problem this certain and this imminent, there should be irrefutable visual evidence.

More than 1,700 U.S. cities will be partially underwater by 2100: study | The Raw Story

By the way, this "photographic evidence" is ridiculous and immature. It reminds me of creationists asking for pictures of evolution happening.

 

[code1211]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

The operative word here of course being "may."

Currently, sea levels are rising at about 3mm / year, according to NOAA, who thinks this rate significant over the last 1,000 years. Speculating about what "might" happen, the IPCC thinks sea levels "could" rise anywhere from 7.1 to 23 inches this century. The National Research Council disputes this guesstimate thinking sea levels this century "could" rise anywhere from 22 to 79 inches (in their words, they "suggest it's possible"). In the IPCC's "Summary for Policymakers" however, they suggest that "on a timescale of centuries to millenia" sea levels "could" rise from 13 to 20 feet.

Notwithstanding the equivocal language ("may," "could," "possible," etc.), the "experts" simply do not know, nor do they even agree. MOREOVER, the last statement, which takes their logic to LINEAR extremes, extending the assumptions to "centuries to millenia" is a perfect example of the point I've been making. NO ONE is even giving a syllable of shrift to the possibility that whatever it is that has caused global temperatures over the last 400,000 years to be CYCLICAL, that such variables might actually still be in play (a logical assumption, given the overwhelming wealth of evidence that they HAVE been in play over the last 400 millenia) and might actually have an influence on whatever changes we might anticipate in the future.

In point of fact, isn't it just possible that these sorts of fantastic visions of potential impending doom are nothing more than hysterical scientific myopia on a mass scale, the result of prognostications of men and women, however educated they may be, who are merely squinting in concert at the merest sliver in time, believing what they think they're observing in that minute sliver must necessarily represent our future?

The fort in this link was built on the coast of Florida in about 1600 and it's still on the coast of Florida. It was built with the ability to flood a moat if needed for defense and it is still on the coast, still has the moat and is still high enough above the ocean so the moat is dry, but still low enough in relation to the ocean that the moat could still be flooded.

This is real life and actual real world empirical evidence that there is something very wrong about the AGW Science that says this will be underwater given a few more minutes.

If the ocean was rising and had risen by a foot over the last 400 years, it would be apparent here.

It's not. Go figure.

Castillo de San Marcos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[humbolt]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

....assuming of course that.... well... meh, never mind.

Yeah. Don't go there. Some people are touchy, and lack any sense of humor at all. If you can't laugh at yourself now and then...

 

[code1211]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Wrong answer. They use images, which is "the photographic evidence you asked for."

You are absolutely certain of things that are dead wrong.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Measuring sea level rise from space

<snip>
[TABLE="width: 629"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 416"][TABLE="width: 416"]
[TR]
[TD="class: sibtbg, bgcolor: #EEEEDD"]

1. Jason-2 satellite: From its 1,338km-high circular orbit, the craft maps 95% of the world's ice-free oceans' topography every 10 days
2, GPS satellites: The system is used to track Jason-2's position, ensuring very precise sea level height measurements
3. Sea height measurement via Poseidon-3 altimeter: The dual frequency radar signals are able to measure sea level height, wave height and surface wind speed
4. Sea surface topography: Variations in the height of the sea surface, when combined with measurements from other satellites and in-situ instruments, will allow scientists to improve weather and climate system models
5. Doppler Orbitography and Radiopositioning Integrated by Satellite (Doris) and laser ranging beacon: Ground stations ensure the precise positioning of Jason-2, which enables researchers to gather meaningful data from the satellite[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]




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[TD="width: 213"]E-mail this to a friend[/TD]
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Bookmark with:

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[EdwinWillers]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

How do you think satellites measure sea level rise?

The fort in this link was built on the coast of Florida in about 1600 and it's still on the coast of Florida. It was built with the ability to flood a moat if needed for defense and it is still on the coast, still has the moat and is still high enough above the ocean so the moat is dry, but still low enough in relation to the ocean that the moat could still be flooded.

This is real life and actual real world empirical evidence that there is something very wrong about the AGW Science that says this will be underwater given a few more minutes.

If the ocean was rising and had risen by a foot over the last 400 years, it would be apparent here.

It's not. Go figure.

Castillo de San Marcos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Empirical emschmirical. Just because the ocean hasn't risen a foot in Florida doesn't mean it hasn't risen...

:shock:

... starting to get a headache,
... right behind my eyes.

 

[code1211]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

By the way, this "photographic evidence" is ridiculous and immature. It reminds me of creationists asking for pictures of evolution happening.

You're preoccupied with Creationists. I can understand why. You are arguing from their position in this debate.

If you were arguing that men had evolved to walk upright and one of them demanded that you show a man walking upright, this would be easy to do. This is because it has actually happened.

If the level of the ocean has risen by a vertical foot, the photographic evidence should be plentiful.

Present it.

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

You're preoccupied with Creationists. I can understand why. You are arguing from their position in this debate.

If you were arguing that men had evolved to walk upright and one of them demanded that you show a man walking upright, this would be easy to do. This is because it has actually happened.

If the level of the ocean has risen by a vertical foot, the photographic evidence should be plentiful.

Present it.

Thank you for confirming that satellites use images to calculate sea surface height.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Wrong answer. They use images, which is "the photographic evidence you asked for."

Huh?

Are you speaking of sea height measurement?

They uses microwaves. A RADAR system to sense sea levels. they use a laser pulse and retroreflector to calibrate the satellite height.

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Huh?

Are you speaking of sea height measurement?

They uses microwaves. A RADAR system to sense sea levels. they use a laser pulse and retroreflector to calibrate the satellite height.

Microwaves are light, aka electromagnetic radiation. Lasers are light. X-rays are light, and they generate "images" that your doctor gives you.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Microwaves are light, aka electromagnetic radiation. Lasers are light. X-rays are light, and they generate "images" that your doctor gives you.

It's not quite the same. If you look at the definition of light, it is specifically the band of electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the eye.

 

[code1211]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Thank you for confirming that satellites use images to calculate sea surface height.

It is my sincere hope that the ignorance you display is a willful ignorance and simply a debating ploy.

If you would, however, like to compare the photographs from orbit please, compare the geocentric satellite photos from 1800 with those from 2013 and demonstrate how the sea level has risen over that period.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

You are absolutely certain of things that are dead wrong.

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Measuring sea level rise from space

<snip>
[TABLE="width: 629"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 416"][TABLE="width: 416"]
[TR]
[TD="class: sibtbg, bgcolor: #EEEEDD"]

1. Jason-2 satellite: From its 1,338km-high circular orbit, the craft maps 95% of the world's ice-free oceans' topography every 10 days
2, GPS satellites: The system is used to track Jason-2's position, ensuring very precise sea level height measurements
3. Sea height measurement via Poseidon-3 altimeter: The dual frequency radar signals are able to measure sea level height, wave height and surface wind speed
4. Sea surface topography: Variations in the height of the sea surface, when combined with measurements from other satellites and in-situ instruments, will allow scientists to improve weather and climate system models
5. Doppler Orbitography and Radiopositioning Integrated by Satellite (Doris) and laser ranging beacon: Ground stations ensure the precise positioning of Jason-2, which enables researchers to gather meaningful data from the satellite[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Yeah, the Jason-2 specs show it supposed to be able to measure the distance from it to the surface of the water to with in +/- 1 inch - in perfect weather conditions; however due to various atmospheric interferences (air temperature, humidity, etc.) the Jason-2's accuracy diminishes from +/- 2" to as much as 20" - so they use another instrument, a microwave radiometer to tell the scientists how much to correct for these interferences. Critical to it all is the ability of the Jason-2 to calculate its own position accurately, which the scientists think will be within +/- 4 inches of true using their DORIS system, which relies on 6 ground-based GPS stations whose measurements apparently only correct for ionospheric interferences (no mention of regular atmospheric interference correction with microwave radiometers as with the Jason itself).

Which is all pretty impressive, but it's also obvious the overall accuracy involved with just these issues alone will diminish its precision from what it might otherwise measure standing still in a vacuum. Then of course you have little issues like the tides, waves, ocean swells, etc. etc. affecting accuracy of measurement - which they'll be able to average out over time to obtain some semblance of a reference baseline from which they can then post the "anomalous" data we've all become familiar with.

So we shouldn't expect the system's precision to be in the millimeter range (corroborating assertions by scientists that our sea level is now rising at an unprecedented rate of 3mm annually).

 

[code1211]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Yeah, the Jason-2 specs show it supposed to be able to measure the distance from it to the surface of the water to with in +/- 1 inch - in perfect weather conditions; however due to various atmospheric interferences (air temperature, humidity, etc.) the Jason-2's accuracy diminishes from +/- 2" to as much as 20" - so they use another instrument, a microwave radiometer to tell the scientists how much to correct for these interferences. Critical to it all is the ability of the Jason-2 to calculate its own position accurately, which the scientists think will be within +/- 4 inches of true using their DORIS system, which relies on 6 ground-based GPS stations whose measurements apparently only correct for ionospheric interferences (no mention of regular atmospheric interference correction with microwave radiometers as with the Jason itself).

Which is all pretty impressive, but it's also obvious the overall accuracy involved with just these issues alone will diminish its precision from what it might otherwise measure standing still in a vacuum. Then of course you have little issues like the tides, waves, ocean swells, etc. etc. affecting accuracy of measurement - which they'll be able to average out over time to obtain some semblance of a reference baseline from which they can then post the "anomalous" data we've all become familiar with.

So we shouldn't expect the system's precision to be in the millimeter range (corroborating assertions by scientists that our sea level is now rising at an unprecedented rate of 3mm annually).

Exactly.

Like so many techniques to measure stuff employed by the AGW Science proponents, the ability to check the accuracy is not available the average dog face boob like me so questions are simply not accepted.

However, the exactness of the measurements required and the error ranges present are at an intersection where my BS monitors seem to get set off.

That's why I go to things that I can look at and check in the "real world". Real science in the real world always supports the conjecture. Gravity, as an example, always wins. Sea level rise, not so much.

When challenged with a question asking that they present something that would be easy to find if it existed, they always fail. The failure is usually accompanied by an attack on my misunderstanding.

The reason? Same as UFO's.

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

It's not quite the same. If you look at the definition of light, it is specifically the band of electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the eye.

F

[10 characters]

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

F

[10 characters]

Don't have a meltdown...

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Don't have a meltdown...

In physics, the term light refers to electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength, whether visible or not.
Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EdwinWillers]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Exactly.

Like so many techniques to measure stuff employed by the AGW Science proponents, the ability to check the accuracy is not available the average dog face boob like me so questions are simply not accepted.

However, the exactness of the measurements required and the error ranges present are at an intersection where my BS monitors seem to get set off.

That's why I go to things that I can look at and check in the "real world". Real science in the real world always supports the conjecture. Gravity, as an example, always wins. Sea level rise, not so much.

When challenged with a question asking that they present something that would be easy to find if it existed, they always fail. The failure is usually accompanied by an attack on my misunderstanding.

The reason? Same as UFO's.

QFT

Thing is, they know they can't answer the questions, which is why they refuse to and choose instead to deploy the proverbial ad-hominem, complain about being fatigued, or better yet, complain about having a headache (like most of us have heard THAT excuse before - albeit in a little different context :mrgreen

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

In physics, the term light refers to electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength, whether visible or not.
Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia is often wrong, since it is edited by common people.

Use any real dictionary, and you get something like this:

light 1 (lt)
n.
1. Physics
a. Electromagnetic radiation that has a wavelength in the range from about 4,000 (violet) to about 7,700 (red) angstroms and may be perceived by the normal unaided human eye.

Even wiktionary says somethign similar:

Noun

light (plural lights)

(uncountable) The natural medium emanating from the sun and other very hot sources (now recognised as electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength of 400-750 nm), within which vision is possible.

 

[ethanUNC]

Re: Melting Ice in the Arctic linked to extreme summer weather in the entire hemisph

Wikipedia is often wrong, since it is edited by common people.

Use any real dictionary, and you get something like this:



Even wiktionary says somethign similar:

Don't argue with me on this. I HAVE TAKEN college physics classes--something you have not done.