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McCain Rejects Broad U.S. Aid on Mortgages

What is new and what you ignore is it is the Iraqi Army fighting the Shia Militia for the most part and not U.S. troops........That means Shia against Shia for the first time so lefties like you can not call it a civil war anymore.....You need new talking points now...........

Are f'n kidding me? The WHOLE point of the after-war has been to train the Iraqi army/police to defend it's own country. What happens the moment they are left on their own? The Madhi army comes in and they drop their uniforms like bad underwear. I think it's you who needs new talking points. ;)
 
Are f'n kidding me? The WHOLE point of the after-war has been to train the Iraqi army/police to defend it's own country. What happens the moment they are left on their own? The Madhi army comes in and they drop their uniforms like bad underwear. I think it's you who needs new talking points. ;)


That happened in the beginning but it is not happening now......How about you show a link where they are dropping the guns and uniforms and running away........
 
That happened in the beginning but it is not happening now......How about you show a link where they are dropping the guns and uniforms and running away........

WTF are you talking about....did you read the article?

Areas of Baghdad fall to militias as Iraqi Army falters in Basra - Times Online

From Times Online

March 27, 2008


Areas of Baghdad fall to militias as Iraqi Army falters in Basra

One witness saw Iraqi Shia policemen rip off their uniform shirts and run for shelter with local Sunni neighbourhood patrols, most of them made up of former insurgents wooed by the US military into fighting al-Qaeda.

Focus like a proverbial laserbeam will ya?
 
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WTF are you talking about....did you read the article?

Areas of Baghdad fall to militias as Iraqi Army falters in Basra - Times Online





Focus like a proverbial laserbeam will ya?


I did not say anything about the police........You said the Iraqi army was doing that........your wrong.........You ad your buddy do know there is a difference between a police force and a army???????? Maybe you don't know the difference ...............

Now quit hijacking the thread...........
 
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Originally Posted by Navy Pride

You Liberals will try and talk the economy down though.........

This is true.

Because if they talk the economy down, then they can point at McCain and scream............."HE DID IT HE DID IT!"


LOL -- anyone recall what Bush was saying about the economy when he was running for president in 2000?

Hint -- he wasn't claiming it was strong and robust.
 
What is new and what you ignore is it is the Iraqi Army fighting the Shia Militia for the most part and not U.S. troops.........

U.S. troops are not fighting? Somebody must have forgotten to tell these guys.

U.S. troops killed 37 militants in Baghdad yesterday and another nine in Sadr City
Bloomberg.com: Africa
 
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......That means Shia against Shia for the first time so lefties like you can not call it a civil war anymore.....You need new talking points now...........

LMAO -- Iraqis are fighting Iraqis so we lefties can't call it a civil war?
 
LOL -- anyone recall what Bush was saying about the economy when he was running for president in 2000?

Hint -- he wasn't claiming it was strong and robust.

And it wasn't..........
 
LOL -- anyone recall what Bush was saying about the economy when he was running for president in 2000?

Hint -- he wasn't claiming it was strong and robust.

Your point?

:roll:
 
“it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers.”

:applaud

I stood up and clapped when I saw this.
I am not exactly excited about McCain as the GOP nominee, but this sort of thing makes me MUCH happier.
 
Ummm you heard what happened in Basra & Baghdad right?
Yeah...:lol:....I'm sure Iraq is coming along juuuuuuuuust fine.
That the enemy still mounts the occasional offenseive in no way means you aren't winning the war.

One can only imagine your reaction to the news of the German Winter Offensive of 1944.

Nerver mind that this has nothing to do with the topic. Perhaps you could explain how it is my responsibility to bail you out of your piss-poor decisions?
 
Man, this war is making people nuts...

This topic started so well focusing the problem created by lenders and buyers who were both irresponsibles of their actions...and now is about the war in Iraq.

Isn't not enough already?

Lets see. The banks had employees who had the reward of great commissions by opening more loans for mortgages. These employees used irregular ways to make valid the low income of the buyers to buy houses that they can't afford.

On the other hand, we have lots of buyers having the opportunity to make the trick of unite themselves "as a group of buyers" to create the illusion of a greater income, so later on to take away names of this group of buyers from the deed and end with the real buyers who really can't afford to pay the monthly payments.

And we have lots of similar examples from both sides who made corrupt business in the last past years.

Why the government has to pay for those irregularities caused by lenders and buyers?

I think McCain is right in this case which applies to several of the cases. The help must be given only to the buyers who by chances of life lost one of the members by death or disability, or by accidents not caused by them, etc.

But, if a family bought a house presenting 5 incomes to meet the mortgage payments, and after a year or two, the "real buyers" took away the fake ones of the deed in order to pay by themselves their house, and later they found out that they can't afford to pay the monthly mortgage payment...let it be...let them lose their house.

About the inflated prices of the houses: Business are business.

I bought a lap top ten years ago and it cost me $1,500, with rebates of about $400. For what? The computer had "a gigantic hard disc memory of 1.4Gb!". This computer wasn't good at all after two more years were technology increased a great steps. This year I paid less than $500 for a lap top with 80Gb hard memory, and several additionals which meet the basic standards to use several programs. Does the government has to compensate the inflated price of my former lap top?:shock:

To make complaints about the price of houses is to make complaints about the price of gasoline which goes up and down as well. While more than a decade ago the price of gasoline was $1.90 as the standard price for a long period of years, later the price went down to less than a dollar for another group of years. Today, the price is more than $3 per gallon. Does the government have to intervene somehow to "compensate" the prices of gasoline to the ones who spent $1.90 before the price drop to less than a dollar?:roll:

If the price of a house is too high in one area, then buy a house that you can afford in another area. Simple. It is a lie that houses were only over $300,000 up in the market. What happens is that in several cases some people buy big houses to rent rooms to help themselves to pay the monthly mortgage payments.

By bad luck, sometimes the tenants don't pay their lease on time, or they cause problems and had to go, etc. The buyer of the house is in trouble...but, does the government "must help him because his income never qualified to buy that house from the very beginning?"

The prices of the houses have drop again. If a buyer found out that the valueof his house is not worthy to be sell and that he is in a trap, well, this is not the government's fault either, rent it and buy a new house, or just accept that this is how the market works.

On the other hand, the government only can investigate if irregularities were made in the transactions, if misinformation or other illegal methods were used to trick the lender or the buyer.

I heard that a bank of London has lost millions of dollars with the current situation of the housing market in US. The loans came from this foreing bank. The buyer lost his capabilities to pay, and now the house is on sell to a price well below the former price. Does the US government must help the lonbdon babk in this situation as well?

McCain is right, and the public in general must understand that before feeling compassion for many families losing their houses by their lack of resources to pay their monthly mortgage payments, a deep review of each case is a necessary task to determine if they really qualify for government assistance. If the buyer commited irregularities in buying his house, he must just lose it.

Another necessary task is to educate the people for to avoid such kind of "tricks" made by the market in both sides, so in the future this kind of situations can be minimized.
 
Ok.....even if you accept that....to say that "I see absolutely no signs of a recession"....is completely intellectually dishonest. If 50% of the markets predict at least some chance....than you absolutely MUST see some signs....unless.....you are McCain and are being dishonest and trying to convince the American Public that there is absolutely nothing to fear....because of course if they fear....the economy is going south.....ewwww.....ahhhh....that means it isn't good for Republicans....so lets try to convince the public that everything is ok and fine in the economy;.......there is no recession.....look over there......everything in the US economy is fine and dandy.........:roll:

Yes, that would be, except HE. DIDNT. SAY. THAT.:shock:

edit: I give up.
 
It's things like this and McCain's refusal to lie to MI auto workers about jobs coming back that convince me he'll be a good president, or at least a realistic one.


The problem here, RNYC, is that while you claim to endorse this unadulterateed bullshit, you are secretly applauding his decision to **** over the American public.

This is the disease of neo-conservatism.

You should be ashamed of yourself for selling your fellow Americans out.

McCain has just provided ample reason why he should NEVER be president.


:shock:
 
The problem here, RNYC, is that while you claim to endorse this unadulterateed bullshit, you are secretly applauding his decision to **** over the American public.

This is the disease of neo-conservatism.

You should be ashamed of yourself for selling your fellow Americans out.

McCain has just provided ample reason why he should NEVER be president.


:shock:

I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. What am I secretly applauding?
 
Indy, I don't think this is the fault of Bush. This is the fault of the buyer and the lender, PERIOD.

I'm not saying that this is the fault of Bush, I'm saying that it is PARTLY the fault of the propaganda being spread by one of our political parties during a very partisan time period. Being as how Bush is the highest ranked Republican in the nation I used his am the example just to simplify my argument. If you don't think that republicans, and yes, Bush talked a whole heck of a lot about how its so great that everyone can afford a house in America because our economy is so strong then you weren't really paying much attention the last couple of years, were you?

So, with that established, it is no longer the fault of the buyer and the lender, PERIOD. Even if this were ONLY dealing with the buyer and the lender in terms of responsibility then the gov't should STILL get involved because there were an alarming number of people who were victims of predatory lending. Victims. Therefore the gov't should set up a program at least for them, because it's not just these people who are suffering but all of the houses in the neighborhoods who's prices fall due to forclosures in the neighborhood. This effects whole communities. So tell me, why should a whole community suffer from something that many times the banks were mostly responsible for? Why should they suffer because of what one home owner in the neighborhood did?

McCain is incorrect on his current stance and it shows his lack of advanced understanding of the economy on a macro level. He believes in catering to a "conservative" constituency so much that he is viewing this crises through a severe case of tunnel vision. Anyone who is unable to come up with any solution other than "well lets just wait and see. I trust the market" and fails to grasp the decade(s) long impact that this will have is too uneducated in economics in my opinion. I don't trust a man who doesn't know what he's talking about to make some of the most important decisions about our country as president. I'm sorry but I don't.
 
The reporting on Mccain from his comments on Iraq to on the economy have been dishonest.

Around the time of the whole lewinsky scandal many on the right went over the edge and just went nuts and now the same is happening on the left.
 
Perfectly said galenrox!! Our current Admin helped to make it easier for people to buy homes. The banks and the buyers took the inch and turned it into a mile. So, if our governement (us) has to bail out all these families then what we're asking is help from the poor, middle class, and the rich. That's fair?
 
Then it should be easy to find a link supporting that claim.

What McCain DID actually say, in response to a question asking him to name something positive about Iraq:



McCain never said "Baghdad is safe." This is just like the "100 years in Iraq" comment where people get a hold of 5 or 6 words and think that's a complete and accurate rendition of what was said.

Oh geeze Right, trying to confuse the Liberals with FACTS again? :rofl
 
This I can agree with. The government choosing to bail out Bear Stearns, in spite of that company's incompetence was reprehensible. My tax money went towards that, and I am burning mad. If stupid homeowners can get foreclosed on, the Bear Stearns can certainly go out of business the HARD way.

None of your tax dollars went anywhere. "The Fed will provide special financing to JPMorgan Chase for the deal, JPMorgan Chase said. The central bank has agreed to fund up to $30 billion of Bear Stearns’ less liquid assets. "

JPMorgan to buy Bear Stearns for $2 a share - U.S. business - MSNBC.com

The Government is providing FINANCING for $30 billion of the deal or what is otherwise known as a LOAN. They will get paid back WITH interest which is similar to what they did for Chrysler which actually returned them a nice return for the tax payers investment.

How hard is it to get some FACTS before you go on these inscessant rants?
 
And I disagree, I think you're showing a lack of understanding as to the macro level economy, because the time of Keynes has come and gone. We've interfered in **** like this before and it has only made things worse. By doing exactly what you're suggesting we turned a Mexican collapse (which was also the fault of our interference in the market) into a major Asian financial crisis that not only brought down a number of developing economies which are home to over a billion people, but also brought down Japan, a shock from which they still have not recovered.

You cannot reasonably expect good things to happen when you subsidize bad behavior over good behavior. I keep hearing about these "victims" of predatory lending, I still haven't heard a single explanation as to why these people are somehow so incompetent that they can't even be held accountable for finding out what the conditions of a major loan they've taken out are, or whether they can possibly be expected to be able to pay the loan off. I'm not worried about helping them some of them out though, if there was a way to help them out without market implications. The issue is that there are market implications to bailing these people out from their irresponsible lending.

Where does the money go? When you send someone "assistance" to pay their mortgage, where does that money go? It goes directly into the hands of the lender. Defaults are an essential check in debt markets, as it's the ONLY reason that they don't lend an infinite amount of money to everyone. When you bail someone out of defaulting on that loan, what you are in fact doing is subsidizing the practice of lending that person more than s/he can afford. And so the question becomes who do you care about more, the dude right now who's losing his home, or the 6 people who will lose their homes in the future because you chose to not let the market do its work and sweep all of the irresponsible lenders out in a wave of bankruptcies.

I really have absolutely no idea how someone who's informed on economic issues can possibly think we should interfere with this, let alone say that if someone holds a position that's actually consistent with economic theory they're reflecting a lack of economic knowledge. McCain's shown more knowledge than either Obama or Clinton, not to mention the Bush administration on this issue, because he's the only one who's suggested an approach that is actually viable in the long run, your plan and their plans of interference are about putting off the problem for a few years until it comes back even worse, he's about letting people sleep in the beds they've made - "subsidizing" (by straying from the norm of bailing out people who screw up their beds) better bed making (which, if you follow the metaphor, is a good thing).

First thing: I never put forward a plan. I'm not running for president. I just made the comment that SOMETHING should be done. Does that something have to cost the government millions of dollars? No. Does the government have to "bail out" borrowers? No. But something needs to be done, perhaps more oversight, or forcing the banks found guilty of predatory lending to change the terms of the loan to allow a reasonable chance of payment. I don't know since I don't have an entire team of political and economic strategists behind me. Our candidates do.

Second: I work in the pro bono legal aid community and I see the victims of predatory lending every day. You said that you can't understand why these people didn't find out the terms of the loan before they closed on the mortgage, well I'm sure you don't want to be ignorant of the issue anymore so let me explain what generally happened to you. The banks actively misled the borrowers by using tag lines like "no cost" and "arm". The people who this advertisement campaign was aimed at were lower class uneducated workers. These people weren't "stupid" they just weren't lawyers and didn't have the education required to read the 150+ pages of legal speak that they have to sign before the loan goes through. If you've ever bought a house then you know that the person working with you during this time generally goes through and explains in layman's terms what each section means and you sign and move on. Well what happens then if these bank representatives are ACTIVELY misleading the client on the facts by not enclosing all of the costs and the payment amounts. There were even instances of the bank actually telling the client the incorrect loan payment amount in order to sell a larger loan knowing that the client could never afford the actual payment. The bank doesn't care because they don't hold onto the loan long enough for it to go through foreclosure proceedings.

These are not observations, they are facts. This did happen on a large scale and the borrowers are indeed victims. So now that you are educated on the issue, do you still think that we should just say "tough luck, your stupid" to these people? What should we say to the innocent families that are affected by this because their houses are dropping in value due to the foreclosures in the community?

Unless you too have tunnel vision due to your political affiliation you should see that something should be done. What that something is I leave to those who have PHDs on the issue.
 
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