McCain Lied at Town Hall Meeting

[CalGun]

At yesterday's town hall meeting in AZ he said we don't have enough buses to move 11 million illegals (criminals) out of the country. That is a lie.

11,000,000 criminals,
Divided by 55 per bus is 200,000 bus loads,
Divided by 250 trips a year per bus (1 a day ) is 800 buses

Assuming typical government inefficiencies I'm sure we could find 2,000 buses. New Orleans probably has a few hundred extra all by itself.

The criminals should not be rewarded. Immigration reform should also end the "born here" citizenship BS that creates "anchor" babies.

 

[ttwtt78640]

What he really meant to say was that since we (the federal gov't) lack the political will to actually enforce ANY immigration law, we are "forced" to grant amnesty to all that come/remain here illegally.

 

[spanky]

At yesterday's town hall meeting in AZ he said we don't have enough buses to move 11 million illegals (criminals) out of the country. That is a lie.

11,000,000 criminals,
Divided by 55 per bus is 200,000 bus loads,
Divided by 250 trips a year per bus (1 a day ) is 800 buses

Assuming typical government inefficiencies I'm sure we could find 2,000 buses. New Orleans probably has a few hundred extra all by itself.

The criminals should not be rewarded. Immigration reform should also end the "born here" citizenship BS that creates "anchor" babies.

You think it takes one day to drive from New York or Miami to Mexico and back?

Those are some buses you got there.

 

[CalGun]

It will average out. Fewer criminals in Maine then in AZ, NM, and Texas. Those states can make more than one trip a day and reduce the average

You think it takes one day to drive from New York or Miami to Mexico and back?

Those are some buses you got there.

 

[Visbek]

Good grief.

I'm no fan of McCain, but he isn't "lying."

He's using a rhetorical flourish to say that the job of kicking 11 million people out of the country is a serious logistical challenge, which is probably beyond the capability of the government.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I can understand why some people are extremely upset by amnesty...

But please, be reasonable here.

You wanna herd up 11 million people and ship them out?

The cost of such an undertaking, the pandemonium, the riots, the damage that will be done not only to cities and local, state and the national economy and to your international reputation will not make it worth your while.

It will leads to many deaths as those people will resist.

Far right conservatives always like to draw parallels between what Obama does and the Soviet Union.

Well you don't get much more Soviet Union than mass deportations.

Population transfer in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again... I totally get why some people are pissed about illegal immigration.

But mass deportations is police state stuff and is not the answer.

 

[spanky]

It will average out. Fewer criminals in Maine then in AZ, NM, and Texas. Those states can make more than one trip a day and reduce the average

So you're dumping them all in border towns? What about those from Guatemala or El Salvador? What about illegals from China and Korea?

 

[Fisher]

McCain lied at a Townhall--what was he reading the President's State of the Union Address to the audience or something?

 

[ttwtt78640]

You think it takes one day to drive from New York or Miami to Mexico and back?

Those are some buses you got there.

You think that all 11 million will be processed in one day? :roll:

 

[notquiteright]

At yesterday's town hall meeting in AZ he said we don't have enough buses to move 11 million illegals (criminals) out of the country. That is a lie.

11,000,000 criminals,
Divided by 55 per bus is 200,000 bus loads,
Divided by 250 trips a year per bus (1 a day ) is 800 buses

Assuming typical government inefficiencies I'm sure we could find 2,000 buses. New Orleans probably has a few hundred extra all by itself.

The criminals should not be rewarded. Immigration reform should also end the "born here" citizenship BS that creates "anchor" babies.

One thing Senator McCain maybe factoring in that you are not is cost. Just how do 'we' pay for 800 buses running around the clock all year long to do this?

Where do 'we' find all these buses? Seems to me even 1,000 buses withdrawn from service to become dedicated haulers puts a crimp in some's plan.

Unless they work on Wall Street criminals generally are not rewarded. Seems the poorer you are the stiffer the sentence.

But the punishment should fit the crime... the punishment for being in this country without proper documentation is a misdemeanor or just civil penalty of a fine depending on the circumstances. Stalinist mass round-ups with a huge expenditure to haul people out of this country, let's not forget thousands of student/work visa folks from other places than south of the Border, would be go against the 'pay as you go' mentality of the hard right.

It is difficult to see how the pathway is a reward since it does cost, isn't quick and there are benchmarks that must be met. It would be like the system used for the better off immigrants from Europe and Canada....

 

[justabubba]

the cantankerous citizen that songbird mccain called a 'jerk' made an excellent point:

"Cut off their welfare and all their stuff and they'll go back,"

that is the key to this
if they are without documentation as legal aliens then they should be found ineligible to receive ANY government benefits and licenses
we should give to whistleblowers the fines paid by employees identified by the whistleblowers to be employing illegal aliens. then the INS will only have to investigate and deport those who are occupying jobs that should be worked by citizens or documented aliens

by being unable to work, receive welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, public education for their kids, no health care (excepted only to prevent death), and not being able to drive legally on our roads, that whoosh sound you hear will be the caravan of vehicles headed south of the boarder
no buses will be required
here is where romney was right: they will self deport ... because there will be no good reason for them to remain

 

[Tucker Case]

You think it takes one day to drive from New York or Miami to Mexico and back?

Those are some buses you got there.

Don't use logic with the "I hates illegals" crowd. They hate it when you do that. For Christ's sake, they think they earned their citizenship by failing to wind up as a red puddle in the toilet of a US citizen.

 

[Oceandan]

You think that all 11 million will be processed in one day? :roll:

LOL Depends on your definition of "processed". No wait, I'm wrong. The government couldn't do anything close to that in one day. I mean the commission to create the study group to determine if processing would be cost effective coupled with the commission to name the commission to create the study group to determine if processing would be cost effective, would definitely take more than a day.

 

[Fiddytree]

At yesterday's town hall meeting in AZ he said we don't have enough buses to move 11 million illegals (criminals) out of the country. That is a lie.

11,000,000 criminals,
Divided by 55 per bus is 200,000 bus loads,
Divided by 250 trips a year per bus (1 a day ) is 800 buses

Assuming typical government inefficiencies I'm sure we could find 2,000 buses. New Orleans probably has a few hundred extra all by itself.

The criminals should not be rewarded. Immigration reform should also end the "born here" citizenship BS that creates "anchor" babies.

Ha. This is what happens when regular people are asked to contribute to public policy discussions. "Just do it!"

 

[Risky Thicket]

the cantankerous citizen that songbird mccain called a 'jerk' made an excellent point:
that is the key to this
if they are without documentation as legal aliens then they should be found ineligible to receive ANY government benefits and licenses
we should give to whistleblowers the fines paid by employees identified by the whistleblowers to be employing illegal aliens. then the INS will only have to investigate and deport those who are occupying jobs that should be worked by citizens or documented aliens

by being unable to work, receive welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, public education for their kids, no health care (excepted only to prevent death), and not being able to drive legally on our roads, that whoosh sound you hear will be the caravan of vehicles headed south of the boarder
no buses will be required
here is where romney was right: they will self deport ... because there will be no good reason for them to remain

Here in Arizona it would be damned difficult to get any state government supported service as an illegal. I'm sure it happens, but not nearly as it once did. A guest worker program is the best way.

 

[Fenton]

I can understand why some people are extremely upset by amnesty...


But please, be reasonable here.

You wanna herd up 11 million people and ship them out?

The cost of such an undertaking, the pandemonium, the riots, the damage that will be done not only to cities and local, state and the national economy and to your international reputation will not make it worth your while.

It will leads to many deaths as those people will resist.

Far right conservatives always like to draw parallels between what Obama does and the Soviet Union.

Well you don't get much more Soviet Union than mass deportations.

Population transfer in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again... I totally get why some people are pissed about illegal immigration.

But mass deportations is police state stuff and is not the answer.

Wow, your'e asking us to be reasonable ?

First its way more than 11 million.

Second giving them instant workers status to compete with the millions of Americans that are currently out of work.

Third enforce the ****ing laws on they will deport themselves.

Finally the lefts interest is primarily to pick up a new voting block.

 

[Lutherf]

I can understand why some people are extremely upset by amnesty...

But please, be reasonable here.

You wanna herd up 11 million people and ship them out?

The cost of such an undertaking, the pandemonium, the riots, the damage that will be done not only to cities and local, state and the national economy and to your international reputation will not make it worth your while.

It will leads to many deaths as those people will resist.

Far right conservatives always like to draw parallels between what Obama does and the Soviet Union.

Well you don't get much more Soviet Union than mass deportations.

Population transfer in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again... I totally get why some people are pissed about illegal immigration.

But mass deportations is police state stuff and is not the answer.

It's not a matter of "rounding them up and shipping them out". It's a matter of getting the ones that get caught out expeditiously along with those whom have enabled their stay or are a product of their stay. Expand the immigration court so that we can process people faster.

 

[justabubba]

Here in Arizona it would be damned difficult to get any state government supported service as an illegal. I'm sure it happens, but not nearly as it once did. A guess worker program is the best way.

absolutely, risky
we should be reaching out to those prospective immigrants who can help our nation
attaching a (pink) green card to every diploma earned by a foreign national is a great idea
streamlining the process for those with the advanced skills we need now and in the future would be a wise investment

but we have allowed our nation to become the mark for those who want something for free
when i was helping the victims of the northridge quake i saw many instances where a documented immigrant would establish a legal beachhead in the states and then begin a process of bringing over members of their immediate and extended family. only they did not bring the same skill set as the legal alien. they brought a need for taxpayer services - in amounts that far exceeded any tax payments the original immigrant would ever be able to cover

i am delighted that we are truly a compassionate nation. but we should not also allow our good will to be abused. and it is, by our under-enforced immigration laws, and our entitlement programs that offer financial incentives for behavior that is not in our country's best interests

 

[Tucker Case]

Wouldn't the cost to benefits ratio of mass deportation greatly outstrip the cost to benefit ratio of not deporting them in mass?

Financially speaking, illegals have both costs and benefits while they are here. You can't simply look at the costs and say that it's comparable to the costs of mass deportation. You have to factor in the benefits as well. I am not the subjective interpretation of costs and benefits that some people use, but the actual objective costs to benefits that a rational person would use.

The best argument I've ever seen against amnesty was based entirely on the objective cost-to-benefits ratio. Both amnesty and deportation are more costly options than maintaining the status quo would be.

 

[Oceandan]

Wouldn't the cost to benefits ratio of mass deportation greatly outstrip the cost to benefit ratio of not deporting them in mass?

Financially speaking, illegals have both costs and benefits while they are here. You can't simply look at the costs and say that it's comparable to the costs of mass deportation. You have to factor in the benefits as well. I am not the subjective interpretation of costs and benefits that some people use, but the actual objective costs to benefits that a rational person would use.

The best argument I've ever seen against amnesty was based entirely on the objective cost-to-benefits ratio. Both amnesty and deportation are more costly options than maintaining the status quo would be.

You are, of course, speaking short term?

 

[CalGun]

EXCELLENT! You make a great point. Those north of the mason dixie line we just drive north to Canada. Once across the border its their issue

So you're dumping them all in border towns? What about those from Guatemala or El Salvador? What about illegals from China and Korea?

 

[CalGun]

Like I said, New Orleans alone probably has 200 empty buses available. Have you never seen an empty bus driving around town? We pay them to drive around empty all the time here in rural
America - part of the leftist utopia that misses its mark.

A 1,000 buses running full time for a year - even if we paid full price for the buses, union wages for the drivers, and all the perks isn't going to cost $500 million. And that's just one year and
we're done - two years on government time - ok so a billion. 1 Billion - criminals in this country against our laws cost us far more than a billion. We can probably cut taxes after they go.

That's a win win!

One thing Senator McCain maybe factoring in that you are not is cost. Just how do 'we' pay for 800 buses running around the clock all year long to do this?

Where do 'we' find all these buses? Seems to me even 1,000 buses withdrawn from service to become dedicated haulers puts a crimp in some's plan.

Unless they work on Wall Street criminals generally are not rewarded. Seems the poorer you are the stiffer the sentence.

But the punishment should fit the crime... the punishment for being in this country without proper documentation is a misdemeanor or just civil penalty of a fine depending on the circumstances. Stalinist mass round-ups with a huge expenditure to haul people out of this country, let's not forget thousands of student/work visa folks from other places than south of the Border, would be go against the 'pay as you go' mentality of the hard right.

It is difficult to see how the pathway is a reward since it does cost, isn't quick and there are benchmarks that must be met. It would be like the system used for the better off immigrants from Europe and Canada....

 

[Tucker Case]

You are, of course, speaking short term?

Not really. Mass deportation doesn't prevent the need for future deportation. Maintaining those low levels of illegal immigration will require money for the long haul. Especially when you've got 11 million more people trying to get back in over and over and over again.

Illegally immigrating somewhere is not something people do for a lark and give up once they get kicked out. ****, people risk their lives to come here even when they haven't become accustomed to the lifestyle here. Imagine how much harder they'll try to get here if you return them to the conditions they fled from initially after they've grown accustomed to being away from it?

I think of it this way: If you transported me to Mexico-side of the border with no money, no food, and no home, I'd work my ass off trying to get the **** out of there. I'd find a way or die trying. Why would I expect them to do anything less?

 

[Tucker Case]

We can probably cut taxes after they go.

We'd have to raise taxes to make up for the money that they are no longer contributing to them (money which they do not have direct access to).

I say we deport deadbeat citizens first. They cost us far more than illegals do.

 

[Risky Thicket]

absolutely, risky
we should be reaching out to those prospective immigrants who can help our nation
attaching a (pink) green card to every diploma earned by a foreign national is a great idea
streamlining the process for those with the advanced skills we need now and in the future would be a wise investment

but we have allowed our nation to become the mark for those who want something for free
when i was helping the victims of the northridge quake i saw many instances where a documented immigrant would establish a legal beachhead in the states and then begin a process of bringing over members of their immediate and extended family. only they did not bring the same skill set as the legal alien. they brought a need for taxpayer services - in amounts that far exceeded any tax payments the original immigrant would ever be able to cover

i am delighted that we are truly a compassionate nation. but we should not also allow our good will to be abused. and it is, by our under-enforced immigration laws, and our entitlement programs that offer financial incentives for behavior that is not in our country's best interests

It is indeed a complex problem. As much as I dislike McCain, I think that was his point. There are illegals who work and contribute to the U.S. If we booted everyone's butt out the door, it would be damned difficult to replace them. At the same time there are illegals who are a real issue. They don't work, they prey on the communities where they live. Mexican-Americans who live in the barrios have a difficult time with illegal criminals. They steal and commit crimes in working class Mexican-American neighborhoods. Mexicans and Norteños have issues with each other.

In Arizona the search for illegals is often selective. The Border Patrol/Police/Etc. will raid Mexican restaurants and the like to round up illegals, but rarely do they raid country clubs and such where illegals are also employed. Point is enforcement is probably political and certainly selective.

The issue is like trying to untangle a box of coat hangers.