Maybe Tim Walz is the leader of the Dems?

[Phys251]

You have no credibility on genocide or holding politicians accountable. None. ZERO.

Says the person who threw away his vote.

"Being catered to = obeying US law".

Dems deserve to lose.

TIL that all we have to do is follow the law! Like your boy tRump, whom you enabled!

 

[Gatsby]

Shhh... here's the strategy: We pretend to have a progressive platform, then we get Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema or Lieberman to sabotage it. That way Dems look like they're trying, but have someone to blame their failures on.

No no, that's not the strategy at all. We don't "pretend to have a progressive platform". In fact, we actively throw people like you and some of your more radical ideas under the bus.

As for who we nominate, well, that depends on the specific state or district. If you imagine the Overton Window of politics like a football field, with Bernie Sanders standing at the left endzone and Mike Lee standing at the right endzone, and the median voter of any given electorate standing on the 50-yard line. Usually we should be nominating someone between the left 40-yard line and the 50-yard line.

Why? Because they are the most likely to win elections. And when it comes to enacting policy, having big majorities is more important than filling each seat with the most extreme candidate possible.

Pissing inside the Big Tent for the Win. *wink*

I would happily expand the Big Tent by telling the voters at the 50-yard line that the voters at the 5-yard line do not accurately reflect the party. There are a lot more voters at the 50-yard line.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Says the person who threw away his vote.

Imagine if libs and neolibs made genocide a red line. Then there wouldn't be a genocide. Biden and Kamala felt they could win because they have the support of amoral voters. They were wrong. There's plenty of people with morality. Bad political calculation on the part of Dems.

TIL that all we have to do is follow the law! Like your boy tRump, whom you enabled!

If Biden and Kamala don't follow the law and enable genocide, these are the results.

 

[Dans La Lune]

No no, that's not the strategy at all. We don't "pretend to have a progressive platform". In fact, we actively throw people like you and some of your more radical ideas under the bus.

As for who we nominate, well, that depends on the specific state or district. If you imagine the Overton Window of politics like a football field, with Bernie Sanders standing at the left endzone and Mike Lee standing at the right endzone, and the median voter of any given electorate standing on the 50-yard line. Usually we should be nominating someone between the left 40-yard line and the 50-yard line.

Why? Because they are the most likely to win elections. And when it comes to enacting policy, having big majorities is more important than filling each seat with the most extreme candidate possible.


I would happily expand the Big Tent by telling the voters at the 50-yard line that the voters at the 5-yard line do not accurately reflect the party. There are a lot more voters at the 50-yard line.

You should totally work with Republicans. Meet them in the middle.

 

[Phys251]

Imagine if libs and neolibs made genocide a red line. Then there wouldn't be a genocide. Biden and Kamala felt they could win because they have the support of amoral voters. They were wrong. There's plenty of people with morality. Bad political calculation on the part of Dems.



If Biden and Kamala don't follow the law and enable genocide, these are the results.

Says the person who threw away his vote. Your words are feckless. I wonder if you got the results you wanted in Gaza.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Says the person who threw away his vote. Your words are feckless. I wonder if you got the results you wanted in Gaza.

Kamala ran your playbook, so did Hillary. Biden said he'd save us from Trump, and delivered us into Trump 2.0. You can't shame enough voters to change this.

 

[Gatsby]

Why did corporate Dems consolidate around Biden to stop Bernie? Is that the question?

Yes. Or more to the point, if your ideas are so popular why is there such a thing as "corporate Dems" at all? Why weren't all those offices filled with Bernie Bros?

Don't worry, your neoliberal party is safe from progressives.

From your lips to Xenu's ears. Alas, it isn't true. It's "safe" in the sense that there isn't going to be a Bernie Bro Revolution, but it isn't "safe" in the sense that you folks can still cause lots of problems on your way to losing. You folks are more like an infected ass sore...not dangerous enough to kill the patient, just annoying enough to cause low-grade misery wherever you go.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Yes. Or more to the point, if your ideas are so popular why is there such a thing as "corporate Dems" at all? Why weren't all those offices filled with Bernie Bros?

Because of legalized bribery, which is an end-run around the will of the people.

From your lips to Xenu's ears. Alas, it isn't true. It's "safe" in the sense that there isn't going to be a Bernie Bro Revolution, but it isn't "safe" in the sense that you folks can still cause lots of problems on your way to losing. You folks are more like an infected ass sore...not dangerous enough to kill the patient, just annoying enough to cause low-grade misery wherever you go.

Psst: If you ask people to vote between Republican-lite and Republican Classic, they will always choose Republican Classic.

 

[Phys251]

Kamala ran your playbook, so did Hillary. Biden said he'd save us from Trump, and delivered us into Trump 2.0. You can't shame enough voters to change this.

Pointing fingers at Harris and Hillary won't work, when it's your type that gave us tRump both times.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Pointing fingers at Harris and Hillary won't work, when it's your type that gave us tRump both times.

^^

'Blame the voters, not the politicians.'

 

[Phys251]

^^

'Blame the voters, not the politicians.'

As usual you offer nothing but finger-pointing. It's always someone else's fault, right? How trumpian of you.

Meanwhile, the rest of us in the base are going to keep resisting what you've enabled in any way we can.

 

[Dans La Lune]

As usual you offer nothing but finger-pointing. It's always someone else's fault, right?

From the guy who started this exchange by pointing fingers at progressives.

 

[poweRob]

No it doesn’t. You have no idea what you are talking about. As usual.

It comes from GovTrack

GovTrack - Bias and Credibility

LEAST BIASED These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or

mediabiasfactcheck.com

• Overall, we rate GovTrack as Least Biased based on story selection and varied editorial positions. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact-check record.

You are welcome to your own opinions. Not upper own facts.

What in the world makes you kneel before mediabiasfactcheck.org site without any question?

Oh btw...

GovTrack Removes 2019 Webpage Labelling Harris as Most Liberal Senator​

It was as always bullshit rw click bait story to make "liberal" a boogeyman word against the candidate.

Oh look, just as Obama was running for president... He was rated the most liberal senator. And Hillary too!!!!! What a remarkable coincidence.

National Journal: Obama Most Liberal Senator In 2007

Hillary Clinton Tied For 16th Most Liberal In Ratings Of "Key Senate Votes"

www.cbsnews.com

All three of them are centrist establishment Dems and you are here believing that all of them were to the left of Bernie Sanders because a website said so in the election year. You guys are so easily duped.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Meanwhile, the rest of us in the base are going to keep resisting what you've enabled in any way we can.

And a good job you're doing.



Meanwhile....

 

[Phys251]

From the guy who started this exchange by pointing fingers at progressives.

Interesting how you cut off the rest of my post which implies that we, the Democratic base, are having to clean up the mess that you (plural) enabled. EDIT: You split it up. That's an interesting strategy.

So spare me the indignation in response to being called out for enabling this mess. Gatsby was right; you're never going to win a presidency if you can't even win a primary.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Gatsby was right; you're never going to win a presidency if you can't even win a primary.

You should get used to agreeing with Gatsby.

 

[Phys251]

You should get used to agreeing with Gatsby.

@Gatsby and I do not agree on everything. He has his views, I have mine, and you have yours.

But back to my point, how can you expect to win the presidency when you can't even win a primary?

 

[Dans La Lune]

@Gatsby and I do not agree on everything. He has his views, I have mine, and you have yours.

But back to my point, how can you expect to win the presidency when you can't even win a primary?

By capitulating to Republicans, like Hakeem Jeffries.

 

[Phys251]

By capitulating to Republicans, like Hakeem Jeffries.

Sarcastic answer not accepted. How do you convince the people of the Democratic base to nominate a progressive?

 

[Dans La Lune]

Sarcastic answer not accepted. How do you convince the people of the Democratic base to nominate a progressive?

With moral clarity, conviction, adherence to ethics and law, and vision of change that doesn't involved going hat-in-hand to Silicon Valley billionaires and begging to be a doormat politician for special interests. Won't you join me?

 

[Phys251]

With moral clarity, conviction, adherence to ethics and law, and vision of change that doesn't involved going hat-in-hand to Silicon Valley billionaires and begging to be a doormat politician for special interests. Won't you join me?

Dans, if I believed that a progressive candidate would win the presidency, I'd put my differences with you aside and join you. But I'm not there yet.

 

[poweRob]

Sarcastic answer not accepted. How do you convince the people of the Democratic base to nominate a progressive?

Hopefully with policies.

I have been seeing a split in the Dem centrist camp lately. There are those still wanting party status quo, backing and defending Hakeem Jeffries. And another camp who is sick of losing using the status quo and thinks that Jeffries is too wimpy and the party needs a change. Both of those camps still hating Bernie. So like... Three camps within the Dem party right now. Progs seem to be taking more action and gaining momentum it appears at the moment.

I could see progs making gains the next two elections in primaries. We'll see though.

Right now the important election is the Wisconsin Supreme Court position that is coming up that could flip it back from Dems majority to repub majority.

 

[Phys251]

Hopefully with policies.

I have been seeing a split in the Dem centrist camp lately. There are those still wanting party status quo, backing and defending Hakeem Jeffries. And another camp who is sick of losing using the status quo and thinks that Jeffries is too wimpy and the party needs a change. Both of those camps still hating Bernie. So like... Three camps within the Dem party right now. Progs seem to be taking more action and gaining momentum it appears at the moment.

I could see progs making gains the next two elections in primaries. We'll see though.

It might take a progressive in 2028 to recreate the Obama enthusiasm of 2008. Too early for me to tell.

Right now the important election is the Wisconsin Supreme Court position that is coming up that could flip it back from Dems majority to repub majority.

Agreed.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Dans, if I believed that a progressive candidate would win the presidency, I'd put my differences with you aside and join you. But I'm not there yet.

Again, if Dems can't win on popular issues, they are losers. Or worse, Republicans pretending to be Democrats.

 

[poweRob]

It might take a progressive in 2028 to recreate the Obama enthusiasm of 2008. Too early for me to tell.



Agreed.

The one problem with progressives is that since our policies are very VERY popular, it attracts opportunistic liars. People who ride prog policies into office land the position and then pull the right wing ripcord to chase the money. Betray everyone. Sinema was a green party person, flipped to Dem to have a better chance at winning while running on prog principles, got into office and ran to the right for money. Looks like Fetterman is in the middle of doing this now. Tulsi Gabbard pulled this shit too.