Matthew 16:27-28

[Panache]

16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

So what do all y'all Christian folk think?

Common attempts to explain this apparent discrepancy are that it refers to the transfiguration, the fall of Jeruselam in 70 AD, the Pentacost, the Ressurection, or the spread of the Gospel.

The immediatly apparent meaning is that "the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works" while some of the folks he was saying this to are still alive.

I think the most defensible position is that there is some 2000 year old dude still wandering around, probably listening to Led Zepplin on his ipod right now, waiting for Jesus to come back and reward every man according to his works.

 

[Rev.]

So what do all y'all Christian folk think?

Common attempts to explain this apparent discrepancy are that it refers to the transfiguration, the fall of Jeruselam in 70 AD, the Pentacost, the Ressurection, or the spread of the Gospel.

The immediatly apparent meaning is that "the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works" while some of the folks he was saying this to are still alive.

I think the most defensible position is that there is some 2000 year old dude still wandering around, probably listening to Led Zepplin on his ipod right now, waiting for Jesus to come back and reward every man according to his works.

The Judgement and Dawn of the Kingdom are two seperate events. The Judgement has not happened yet. The Dawn of the Kingdom happened when Jesus ressurected. Of those listening to Jesus make that statement, at least one (Judas) did not live to see that happen.

 

[GarzaUK]

Isn't it true that after the supposed resurrection some disciples doubted that it was Jesus? If they doubted then, how can in hell people be sure now. The gospels are very much historically flawed as they is no eye-witness accounts only hear say and they also contradict each other.

Historians would call that an unreliable source.

 

[Jerry]

So what do all y'all Christian folk think?

Common attempts to explain this apparent discrepancy are that it refers to the transfiguration, the fall of Jeruselam in 70 AD, the Pentacost, the Ressurection, or the spread of the Gospel.

The immediatly apparent meaning is that "the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works" while some of the folks he was saying this to are still alive.

I think the most defensible position is that there is some 2000 year old dude still wandering around, probably listening to Led Zepplin on his ipod right now, waiting for Jesus to come back and reward every man according to his works.

There is no discrepincy in what you quoted.

Jesus is saying that there are some people who will not die from that day to the second comming, and yes that means that there are people walking this earth right now who are thousands of years old.

 

[Gibberish]

Isn't it true that after the supposed resurrection some disciples doubted that it was Jesus? If they doubted then, how can in hell people be sure now. The gospels are very much historically flawed as they is no eye-witness accounts only hear say and they also contradict each other.

Historians would call that an unreliable source.

All the disciples doubted that Jesus resurrected. The angel's only showed them selves to Mary Magdalene when she visited the burial site. She then went to the disciples who did not believe, Jesus appeared to Mary on the way.

After this visual accounts differ in the gospels. Some say Jesus appeared to the 11 disciples on the same day, some say he appeared to them in Galilee later, and that he then also appeared 8 days later.

 

[The Baron]

Has Bible Prophecy Already Been Fulfilled? Part IV

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

Jerry,

There is no discrepincy in what you quoted.

Jesus is saying that there are some people who will not die from that day to the second comming, and yes that means that there are people walking this earth right now who are thousands of years old.

Great post! For a second I thought you were serious. :rofl

Historians would call that an unreliable source.

I'd have to agree.

 

[Joe Hill]

Jerry,




Great post! For a second I thought you were serious. :rofl



I'd have to agree.

Must be the Wandering Jew doomed to live homeless until Jaysus comes.

 

[dthmstr254]

Isn't it true that after the supposed resurrection some disciples doubted that it was Jesus? If they doubted then, how can in hell people be sure now. The gospels are very much historically flawed as they is no eye-witness accounts only hear say and they also contradict each other.

Historians would call that an unreliable source.

Correction, Historians very often cite the Bible as historical source of the existence of the Hittites and Troy, as well as other things. Philosophers, on the other hand, would be most likely to call it unreliable, because they see one discrepancy in the outlying information, such as the statements such as these, wherein people tend to conveniently leave out statements later on where Jesus said the disciples have already seen the kingdom of God. Try the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount.

Second mistake there is that two of them were direct eyewitness accounts, and one was a compilation of research done by a doctor. The book of Mark is a rather interesting one as we have only one indication that Mark was involved with Christ's followers, and that through Paul/Saul of Tarsus.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Isn't it true that after the supposed resurrection some disciples doubted that it was Jesus? If they doubted then, how can in hell people be sure now. The gospels are very much historically flawed as they is no eye-witness accounts only hear say and they also contradict each other.

Historians would call that an unreliable source.

Have your EVER read the bible before?

If you have, there's no reason for you to make a post like this.
Some of the disciples did doubt when Mary told them Jesus was ressurected, however, when Jesus appeared and dissappeared in a cloud, they believed.

 

[Panache]

The Judgement and Dawn of the Kingdom are two seperate events. The Judgement has not happened yet. The Dawn of the Kingdom happened when Jesus ressurected.

And when Jesus was ressurected, did he "reward every man according to his works?"

The context of Matthew 16:28, leads us to conclude that it was in fact the Judgement he referred to, and not the "Dawn of the Kingdom."

 

[Panache]

There is no discrepincy in what you quoted.

Jesus is saying that there are some people who will not die from that day to the second comming, and yes that means that there are people walking this earth right now who are thousands of years old.

I notice that Ivan thanked you, but still doesn't think you were serious. I think your position is the second most logical conclusion.

The most logical conclusion of course is that God origianlly planned for the Judgement to occur within the lifetime of some of those listening, but shortly afterward he discovered WoW and is now farming the orcs for XP, having completely forgotten about the whole "judgement thing."

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

Panache,

I notice that Ivan thanked you, but still doesn't think you were serious.

He was? I'm not really sure what to say to him then. To each his own I suppose.

The most logical conclusion of course is that God origianlly planned for the Judgement to occur within the lifetime of some of those listening, but shortly afterward he discovered WoW and is now farming the orcs for XP, having completely forgotten about the whole "judgement thing."

Your logic is sound. Although I wouldn't say G-d "forgot" I would say that it was never in the plan.

 

[Panache]

Has Bible Prophecy Already Been Fulfilled? Part IV

I am already familiar with both the preterist theory and the transfiguration theory. I was rather hoping for your own thoughts on the matter.

The preterist contention that our Lord’s prophecy in Matthew 16:28 predicts the destruction of the Temple in the first century has been proven to be off base. Instead, we have found that Matthew 16:27 refers to a yet future second coming of Christ, while 16:28 was fulfilled only a week after the prophecy was uttered by our Lord through His transfiguration before Peter, James, and John.

I gather from the source you chose to select that you are rather partial to the transfiguration explanation.

Lets look at what the author set out to do.

Now I will take up the preterist’s misguided contention that Matthew 16:28 supports a past prophetic fulfillment.

If this was his intent, clearly he failed. His own assertion is that Jesus prophesied that some folks would not taste of death for... get this... a whole week!

And then the prophecy was fulfilled 6 days later.

Thus, "verse twenty-seven looks at the establishment of the kingdom in the future, while a promise of seeing the Messiah in His glory is the thought of verse twenty-eight. They are two separate predictions separated by the words ‘truly I say to you.’"

Perhaps if this "truly I say to you" business was regularly used to separate one topic from another this would have some merit, but "truly I say to you" is overwelmingly used in the New Testement to emphasise a topic which is already being discussed.

A few examples to start with...

Mat 6:5
Mat 6:16
Mat 8:10
Mat 10:42
Mat 17:20
Mat 21:21
Mat 25:45
Mark 9:41
Luke 12:37

If you could show how "truly I say to you" is used to indroduce a new topic in any of these, that would be great. Or if you prefer, you could find a similar list of examples of the phrase being used to introduce a new topic elsewhere in the New Testement.

I think the phrase is clearly and overwhelmingly used to emphasize what was said in the earlier verse, and as such suggests that Mat 16:28 is in direct reference to Mat 16:27, which is clearly referring to the Second Coming.

 

[dthmstr254]

And when Jesus was ressurected, did he "reward every man according to his works?"

The context of Matthew 16:28, leads us to conclude that it was in fact the Judgement he referred to, and not the "Dawn of the Kingdom."

I think the question is "IS he rewarding every man according to his works." And the answer is yes.

 

[Jerry]

I notice that Ivan thanked you, but still doesn't think you were serious. I think your position is the second most logical conclusion.

The most logical conclusion of course is that God origianlly planned for the Judgement to occur within the lifetime of some of those listening, but shortly afterward he discovered WoW and is now farming the orcs for XP, having completely forgotten about the whole "judgement thing."

Well, in His difence, He didn't really have a choice since His guildies threataned to leave if He didn't start ponying up the lute and XP....He had just lost a third of His guild to the Lucifarian Order of the White Hand, you know....He didn't want that to happen again.

 

[1069]

There is no discrepincy in what you quoted.

Jesus is saying that there are some people who will not die from that day to the second comming, and yes that means that there are people walking this earth right now who are thousands of years old.

Ah... please say this is your idea of humor.

 

[Jerry]

Ah... please say this is your idea of humor.

Lets say that the bible was thought up and printed last year; Let's say that everyone shakes hands and agrees that it's obviously a work of pure fiction.......that's still what the book says.

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

So Jerry how do you really feel about this?

 

[Hatuey]

.......that's still what the book says.

But it would still fiction....one notch above Harry Potter as far as educational value goes...

 

[Jerry]

But it would still fiction....one notch above Harry Potter as far as educational value goes...

It can be fiction and still not contradict itself.

Rather the bible is a work of fiction or not is besides the point, as we could be talking about Harry Potter and agree on what a given book in the series says because we can all flip to the page and see for ourselves.

Did the Goblet of Fire in fact select a 4th would-be champion for the tri-wizard tuniment? Everyone can turn to page 271 and see for themselves.

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

Jerry,

It can be fiction and still not contradict itself.

Rather the bible is a work of fiction or not is besides the point, as we could be talking about Harry Potter and agree on what a given book in the series says because we can all flip to the page and see for ourselves.

Did the Goblet of Fire in fact select a 4th would-be champion for the tri-wizard tuniment? Everyone can turn to page 271 and see for themselves.

So you're saying that this doesn't matter to you?

 

[dthmstr254]

Lets say that the bible was thought up and printed last year; Let's say that everyone shakes hands and agrees that it's obviously a work of pure fiction.......that's still what the book says.

Where does the Bible say it is fiction?

 

[Gibberish]

Where does the Bible say it is fiction?

He wasn't talking about the bible saying it's fiction. Jerry said that despite the bible being accepted as fact or fiction that it still states...

Jesus is saying that there are some people who will not die from that day to the second comming, and yes that means that there are people walking this earth right now who are thousands of years old.

 

[Jerry]

Jerry,

So you're saying that this doesn't matter to you?

...that what doesn't matter to me?

The issue of rather the bible is fiction or not is a RedHarring and doesn't pertain to the question of the OP at all.