Matt Atkinson -- Very interesting Ranger at the National Park Service talks

[Oozlefinch]

What do you mean by that crack, Hayden? You mean The ex husband of Jane Fonda who perhaps was one of your heros?

What did I mean by that crack "Hayden Lake"? I meant exactly what I said, Hayden Lake. I mean, it is right there in Kootenai County after all. The home of Richard Butler and his inbred Aryan Nations fudge pounders that infested Idaho starting in the 1970's, and apparently continuing into today.

Funny how you claim you do not attack, then spring immediately into another attack.

I did not try to justify the acts of the Confederates. I pointed out that had they been wanting to conquer Abe, they would have marched into DC and wiped him out. And of course if the Union could run like cowards to DC, the South could have followed them.

And I already stated why that did not happen. Funny how you keep bouncing back and forth between "They were peaceful and did nothing wrong", and "They could have eliminated them easily".

Ahhhh, the insane rantings are still alive and well I see.

As to your claims, pound them where the sun won't shine.

You are rude and so far as I am concerned, not one bit appreciated.

Ahhhh, "rude". Translation, I challenge you and do not simply roll over and accept your nonsensical claims without any thought.

And to be honest, I do not give a damn if you appreciate me or not. I have no real interest in what people who twist history think of me, to be honest. Mostly I just sit back and laugh at them, and let them show others exactly what they are like. Funny thing about those that follow the Hayden Lake crowd, they always scream that they are being oppressed, meanwhile they lash out at anybody that does not agree with them.

And when I scratch the surface of any who go on and on about the "Righteous Cause" of the Confederates, I find that if I scratch the surface just a little bit, I find somebody who would fit in perfectly at one of the Hayden Lake compounds.

But have a nice day.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Still the South went to war due to them being invaded in Virginia. Sumter was a side show while the war at Manassas was definitely not a side show.

"Went to war due to them being invaded in Virginia".

Fort Sumter was on 12 April 1861. The First Battle of Bull Run was 21 July 1861.

Wow, those Confederates were so smart, they did an attack over 3 months before they were invaded. And just happened to have over 35,000 soldiers out picking flowers less than 25 miles from the capitol to stop them from being such horrible brutes.

The South did want to also inhabit the open west and take property with them. Slaves at the time were designated property by law

But please continue, this is fascinating. I also find it interesting how adamant you are about slavery and the rights of people to take their property with them, and also in their desire to expand slavery.

There was no "open West", it was another country. Funny how your "just war against Northern Aggression" slips right into the righteous expansion of the property rights of slave owners. And yea, I see that my long held belief still seems to be right. Scratching away here.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Idaho, Northern California, the interior of Oregon and Washington, Arizona, Montana.....all areas crawling with “white pride” confederate fanboys.

People who are so deeply invested in the “Lost Cause” myth that they are willing to justify any crime, believe any myth, in order to support their fantasy.

I do think it’s rather telling that the OP likes to blame Abraham Lincoln for the Civil War(which is laughable in itself) ....and yet totally exonerates Jefferson Davis and the Confederate government which, by his own standard, would be just as much to blame.

Trust me, I have been fighting morons like that for decades now. And it often makes me ashamed to admit I am from Idaho because of that. But to be fair, most of those with that kind of mindset are not actually from Idaho. The vast majority of them (Richard Butler, Robert Matthews, Buford Furrow) actually moved up there from the Los Angeles area. And the same is true of most of the other areas you mention.

Like what happened in Oregon when Antelope became Rajneeshpuram, to the disgust of those that lived there. It only takes a small minority of loud individuals to completely change how others view a state or region. And also many tend to gravitate towards other movements and usurp them for their own purposes. I happen to be a supporter of the "State of Jefferson" movement, but most of us truly dispose the lunatics that have joined it and tried to pervert it for their own purposes.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I never liked Tom Hayden and it is remarkable I am being told I am his fan. The lost cause is not what I call it. I call it the regrettable mistake made by Abe Lincoln who had he been a statesman, this nation would not have caused the killing of over 630,000 troops. A way for Abe to keep them alive was not to invade VA.

I am absolutely at a loss for words here.

Nobody said Tom Hayden, other than you. I said "Hayden Lake", so you can take your fake butthurt and shove it.

Here, this is what the Hayden Lake crowd is like.

It always makes me want to cry when people think of my home state, and the first 3 things that come to mind are potatoes, a President being attacked by a rabbit, and Nazis.

And no, I do not believe you are a fanboy of Tom Hayden at all. BUt a fanboy of the Hayden Lake crowd? That would not surprise me at all.

 

[Robertinfremont]

What did I mean by that crack "Hayden Lake"? I meant exactly what I said, Hayden Lake. I mean, it is right there in Kootenai County after all. The home of Richard Butler and his inbred Aryan Nations fudge pounders that infested Idaho starting in the 1970's, and apparently continuing into today.

Funny how you claim you do not attack, then spring immediately into another attack.



And I already stated why that did not happen. Funny how you keep bouncing back and forth between "They were peaceful and did nothing wrong", and "They could have eliminated them easily".

Ahhhh, the insane rantings are still alive and well I see.



Ahhhh, "rude". Translation, I challenge you and do not simply roll over and accept your nonsensical claims without any thought.

And to be honest, I do not give a damn if you appreciate me or not. I have no real interest in what people who twist history think of me, to be honest. Mostly I just sit back and laugh at them, and let them show others exactly what they are like. Funny thing about those that follow the Hayden Lake crowd, they always scream that they are being oppressed, meanwhile they lash out at anybody that does not agree with them.

And when I scratch the surface of any who go on and on about the "Righteous Cause" of the Confederates, I find that if I scratch the surface just a little bit, I find somebody who would fit in perfectly at one of the Hayden Lake compounds.

But have a nice day.

I have never seen Hayden Lake so your taunts and insults mean nothing at all.
This forum is to discuss matters.

That I do not please you really does not matter. Not even a tiny bit.

 

[Robertinfremont]

I am absolutely at a loss for words here.

Nobody said Tom Hayden, other than you. I said "Hayden Lake", so you can take your fake butthurt and shove it.

Here, this is what the Hayden Lake crowd is like.

It always makes me want to cry when people think of my home state, and the first 3 things that come to mind are potatoes, a President being attacked by a rabbit, and Nazis.

And no, I do not believe you are a fanboy of Tom Hayden at all. BUt a fanboy of the Hayden Lake crowd? That would not surprise me at all.

It appeared to me you said Tom Hayden.

As to those photos, I knew nothing of them other than things presented by Democrats who are the fathers of hate and oppression of blacks and holding them as slaves.

Welcome to the party of slaves.

Apparently to me is you favor this area you call Hayden and are familiar with that area. I have not gone north here other than to Yellowstone.

Oh and last Summer me and my son camped out about 100 miles north of Boise at some nice fishing areas.

We were in the vicinity of Donnelly. Hayden lake, and I just located it on the map is close to 400 miles north of here. And if I head that way, I shall post a notice. I have no plans to visit any nazis.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Trust me, I have been fighting morons like that for decades now. And it often makes me ashamed to admit I am from Idaho because of that. But to be fair, most of those with that kind of mindset are not actually from Idaho. The vast majority of them (Richard Butler, Robert Matthews, Buford Furrow) actually moved up there from the Los Angeles area. And the same is true of most of the other areas you mention.

Like what happened in Oregon when Antelope became Rajneeshpuram, to the disgust of those that lived there. It only takes a small minority of loud individuals to completely change how others view a state or region. And also many tend to gravitate towards other movements and usurp them for their own purposes. I happen to be a supporter of the "State of Jefferson" movement, but most of us truly dispose the lunatics that have joined it and tried to pervert it for their own purposes.

I spend time posting and post poli tely. I know what I think of you and the other person but you will not catch me calling him or you lousy names.

You lied about me by operating as if i am a nazi and hate blacks. That is a filthy lie.

In my discussions of the war in 1861-5, I am not thinking of what the Confederates did since they defended themselves from Abe Lincoln. What did Abe declare his war was about? Not slavery, to put the union back together. So when you quote Abe, do so correctly. This has nothing to do with that lake area in Idaho. I am native to CA and frankly for years upon years I too bought the cause the union was right. I learned factually the union was wrong. And not due to slavery. Due to the fact the voters of all states voted. And voters in this country rule states. Voters in Idaho vote for Trump. Now speak ill of the voters here. I am new so my first vote here is this fall.

 

[Robertinfremont]

I would have been okay with sparing some of the higher ranking Confederates. James Longstreet, for instance, who was one of the very few Confederates who realized how evil the cause he had fought for was and was willing to openly say so, which made him a lot of enemies amongst his former “comrades”. Taking away Lee’s fancy estate and turning it into a cemetery was an ingenious form of punishment in all honesty considering how much he wrapped himself in family history and “prestige”.

It was the civilian “fireeaters” who really pushed for the war, and in my opinion they should have born the brunt of the punishment. States which were particularly vile— South Carolina, Texas— also should have been treated with a heavier hand than states with big Union support areas like North Carolina or Tennessee.

Major effort should have also gone into protecting the freedmen. Everything up to and including reprisal executions en masse to force the Klansmen to knock it off.

I am sure you types would still be executing Democrats over that war.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Not really given that you are a pretty damn blatant Lost Causer and Confederate fanboy.

A “real statesman” would have hung Jefferson Davis and every member of the Confederate government and higher ranking military members in 1865.

A “real statesman” would have also hung the entire leadership of the KKK the first time they tried pulling their night rider crap, and kept doing it until the South either got the message or ran out of Klansmen.

You Confederate fanboys should count your lucky stars that Lincoln wasn’t a “real statesman” because in 1865 nobody would have said boo if he chose to do so, either internationally or here in the North.

The South made that impossible when they declared war on the US by shooting at US soldiers.

But your heroes were too desperate to defend slavery.

If the Klan and the CW boosters got hung, how would you have been born?

 

[Robertinfremont]

lol okay. I guess you shouldn't read any books that are critical of people huh?

It's noted how you fail to provide any actual counter-information at all.



And? I've never commanded more than eight people, but I'm well read enough to tell you when a bad decision is a bad decision. General or not, Frank is still just a man, prone to the same mistakes and errors as any other person.

The difference being that when a four star screws up, lots more people are likely to be affected than when I screw up.

We are going nowhere with this at all. I know I am right. And you think you are.

If you truly read Franks book, clearly you missed his story where he explains it far different than you do. How can you say you read his book yet not understand his book?

What did General Franks tell the Joint Chiefs of staff when he briefed them?

Who did Franks credit for the context of the two wars? Did Bush put ropes on Franks or did Rumsfeld? You said Rumsfeld limited Franks Troops. I pointed out he won super fast and did not use all of the troops he did have at his disposal. Said troops were on ships on the way to Iraq.

 

[Tigerace117]

If the Klan and the CW boosters got hung, how would you have been born?

The Klan fought against the Union bud.

What the hell is a “CW booster?” Someone who doesn’t think there’s a right to try and murder US soldiers with impunity?

 

[Tigerace117]

I am sure you types would still be executing Democrats over that war.

No, we wouldn’t still be executing conservatives over their support for the Confederacy.

It is amusing, however, to note how the party which thinks it supports “liberty” opposes that for minorities....and then wonders why they don’t vote for the GOP in any sort of large numbers.

 

[Robertinfremont]

The Klan fought against the Union bud.

What the hell is a “CW booster?” Someone who doesn’t think there’s a right to try and murder US soldiers with impunity?

Democrats are the Klan. I know they fought against the Union. CW = Civil War.

 

[Robertinfremont]

No, we wouldn’t still be executing conservatives over their support for the Confederacy.

It is amusing, however, to note how the party which thinks it supports “liberty” opposes that for minorities....and then wonders why they don’t vote for the GOP in any sort of large numbers.

If you mean Republican then clearly i am no conservative.

Democrats, the same party of Slavery own the Klan. Don't try to wiggle out of your ownership. And i believe they are also the party of the Nazis.

Give how you talk to yourself, i won't reply to your self chats with yourself.

Why do blacks to a degree support Democrats? The smart ones refuse to vote for Democrats. The rest believe the Democrats pay them to be poor.

 

[Oozlefinch]

It appeared to me you said Tom Hayden.

Wow, I am gonna have to stop laughing again, or I may pee myself.

Here, a reminder for those to what I actually said:

Exactly, which is what I stated earlier in this thread.

And reading posts like that help to remind me how the Hayden Lake groups are still alive and well in Idaho, sadly. People who cling so strongly to the lie that the South was fighting a "just war", and that all who oppose them and their beliefs are cretins.

Yea, I said absolutely nothing like "Tom Hayden", I very specifically said "Hayden Lake". Actually a rather well known area of the state you claim to be living in. Honestly, I find the idea that somebody in Idaho knows nothing about Hayden Lake about as mind blowing as their saying they know nothing of Cascade or Redfish Lake. And confusing "Hayden Lake" with "Tom Hayden", that is simply impossible for me to comprehend.

As to those photos, I knew nothing of them other than things presented by Democrats who are the fathers of hate and oppression of blacks and holding them as slaves.

And the Democrats are also the party of the Confederacy. Pretty much every member of the Political structure of the Confederacy was a Democrat. Including Jefferson Davis, Democrat Senator from Mississippi. Alexander Stephens, Democrat Congressman from Georgia. And every member of the Cabinet.

Strange, for as much as you idolize the Confederacy, you hate the party that they spawned from. Yet you endorse their expanding slavery apparently. Strange.

Apparently to me is you favor this area you call Hayden and are familiar with that area. I have not gone north here other than to Yellowstone.

Geography fail, Yellowstone is East, not North. In fact, it is due East of where you are at.

And no, I am not from the Hayden Lake area. To give an idea, I used to spend a lot of time at MRC, and was one of the first classes to graduate from Meridian Junior High after it took over the old High School. And the paint was barely dry when I started attending Lake Hazel.

However, I am more than familiar with the ilk that polluted the state from them. I still remember having a guy come up and talk to me at the Boise Airport in 1983. I was still in my uniform, having graduated from boot camp just a few days before. He spent quite a bit of time praising my being in the military, and telling me how he represented a bunch of "Patriotic Americans". Then he gave me his card, with the AN logo prominently on the top.

He invited me to one of his meetings a few days later, but he seemed to get really mad for some reason when I said I could not make it as it was on a Friday night, and I was going to Synagogue on that night.

Oh and last Summer me and my son camped out about 100 miles north of Boise at some nice fishing areas.

We were in the vicinity of Donnelly. Hayden lake, and I just located it on the map is close to 400 miles north of here. And if I head that way, I shall post a notice. I have no plans to visit any nazis.

Oh I am well familiar with Donnelly. I used to spend my leave there, and my mom was well known in the area. She died 20 years ago, but if you mention her name most would still recognize it. My grandfather even has a road named after him in Ketchum. But I find it strange that somebody who claims to live in Idaho has never heard of Hayden Lake. That area was famous nationwide in the 1970's and 1980's.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Wow, I am gonna have to stop laughing again, or I may pee myself.

Here, a reminder for those to what I actually said:



Yea, I said absolutely nothing like "Tom Hayden", I very specifically said "Hayden Lake". Actually a rather well known area of the state you claim to be living in. Honestly, I find the idea that somebody in Idaho knows nothing about Hayden Lake about as mind blowing as their saying they know nothing of Cascade or Redfish Lake. And confusing "Hayden Lake" with "Tom Hayden", that is simply impossible for me to comprehend.



And the Democrats are also the party of the Confederacy. Pretty much every member of the Political structure of the Confederacy was a Democrat. Including Jefferson Davis, Democrat Senator from Mississippi. Alexander Stephens, Democrat Congressman from Georgia. And every member of the Cabinet.

Strange, for as much as you idolize the Confederacy, you hate the party that they spawned from. Yet you endorse their expanding slavery apparently. Strange.



Geography fail, Yellowstone is East, not North. In fact, it is due East of where you are at.

And no, I am not from the Hayden Lake area. To give an idea, I used to spend a lot of time at MRC, and was one of the first classes to graduate from Meridian Junior High after it took over the old High School. And the paint was barely dry when I started attending Lake Hazel.

However, I am more than familiar with the ilk that polluted the state from them. I still remember having a guy come up and talk to me at the Boise Airport in 1983. I was still in my uniform, having graduated from boot camp just a few days before. He spent quite a bit of time praising my being in the military, and telling me how he represented a bunch of "Patriotic Americans". Then he gave me his card, with the AN logo prominently on the top.

He invited me to one of his meetings a few days later, but he seemed to get really mad for some reason when I said I could not make it as it was on a Friday night, and I was going to Synagogue on that night.



Oh I am well familiar with Donnelly. I used to spend my leave there, and my mom was well known in the area. She died 20 years ago, but if you mention her name most would still recognize it. My grandfather even has a road named after him in Ketchum. But I find it strange that somebody who claims to live in Idaho has never heard of Hayden Lake. That area was famous nationwide in the 1970's and 1980's.

My son has lived in this state two times. We live together. I will ask him about Hayden lake and your Nazis there.

I went to his garage to ask him about Hayden Lake. He told me he has not heard of it. He lived in Boise years ago for probably 5 years or so. And I have been to the Boise Airport and here in Meridian, per my son, the town is nearly new. He said when he lived in Boise, this was farmers fields.

And Yellowstone is both a bit North and also East.

Still I have lived here for close to a year and we camped out that one time.

I can ask you about hundreds of places in CA you have not one idea exists.

For instance, how about Columbia, CA or Booneville, CA? What is Boonville famous for?

i am still new to Idaho and of course not familiar with the so called heros you mentioned. I sure see them as thugs. I see Democrats as thugs.

 

[Robertinfremont]

The South wanted to expand slavery regardless of what the inhabitants of the area wanted. They tried to flood Kansas with pro slavery fanatics which lead to a mini civil war within the civil war itself. They advocated for war with Spain over Cuba, fantasized about seizing vast amounts of land from Mexico and conquering Central America to create a “Golden Circle” and broke every agreement they ever made on the topic.

The claim that Fort Sumter was “harboring a small invasion force” is laughable. The Union troops there were totally insufficient to try and take Charleston, and had no intention of trying. They were there to guard US government property, which the south had no right to try and take.

The Union did boot the Confederate invaders out of Pennsylvania and all the way back down into Virginia, yes.

And then the USCTs helped kick the crap out of your heroes up and down the south.

I am still laughing at the above post.

We all know that at Gettysburg General Lee lost. But less told is how he was close to winning at one point. Credit the Union for recovering.

I am still laughing that you called the confederates my heros.

i don't see them that at all.

Let me outline my actual argument.
1. 7 states put this up to the vote. All 7 decided to depart the rest of the states. I am not saying right or wrong. just the facts they voted.
2. Sumter was a sideshow. Abe could have sent his navy there., But he was pissed and denied habeas Corpus and jailed many in the north. And he invaded VA who had not invaded him at the time. Lee later invaded Abes area.
So to you Above is your hero. To me he was the man who got shot to death at the Ford Theatre and died in a home across the same street and i saw his deathbed. PS, I also stood where Booth stood in the Ford Theater. i enjoy history that much.

That is my claim.

 

[Jredbaron96]

We are going nowhere with this at all. I know I am right. And you think you are.

lol

If you truly read Franks book, clearly you missed his story where he explains it far different than you do.

Franks did indeed give his version of events; but like many Generals in their memoirs he spoke highly of himself and neglected to mention his failures. Von Manstein and Guderian did the same.

You said Rumsfeld limited Franks Troops.

Which is true. You have failed to cite any sources to disprove it, while I have offered my sources. If you'd like, I could get you more.

 

[notquiteright]

Lee came whiskers away from winning that battle. For example, at Little Round Top where the Maine group is lauded in film. Chamberlain was almost defeated there. As I saw the layout when I was at Gettysburg Lee put too many of his men at great risk by open field warfare. Had he kept using the trees as cofer and fought a guerlla campaign, he had a chance to win. Also at the time communications on both sides were so slow that opportunities for both sides were curtailed. One thing that helped Chamberlain was his was a fixed position and he defended. But the troops confronting him were mobile and really in need of more speed to communicate movements. For a Confederate General to get orders to attack around dawn to finally attack at 3 in the afternoon is a good way to lose a war quickly.

Somewhat biased opinion. The simple lesson was an Army on defense has a great advantage over an Army assaulting prepared positions.

What worked for Meade and against Lee was sub unit commanders recognizing weaknesses or opportunities and reacting first, awaiting orders later. Warren saw a weakness and moved troops without orders from above. Colonel Vincent didn't argue about the chain of command. Chamberlain's men (20th Maine) stayed and fought instead of running from the so used to winning Rebs. Gen Sickles was run out of the Peach Orchard but Gen Hancock saw the rout and reacted quickly. Imagine if Gen Ewell had shown such determination when asked 'if practicable'.

Lee's corps commanders lacked force, the Rebs lost their more aggressive commanders, Lee's orders lacked clarity. In both offenses into Yankee territory Lee learned the same lesson the Yankee generals did- defense is easier than offense in the transitory period between muskets and rifles. The South was down to faulty powder, a mish mash of weapons, no shoes, poor uniforms and food with no chance of victory, and just a faint glimmer of hope for a negotiated peace.

Unconditional Surrender Grant sunk that forlorn hope... eace

 

[Tigerace117]

Democrats are the Klan. I know they fought against the Union. CW = Civil War.

Lol yeah, that’s why the Democratic Party elected an African American president, because they are “the Klan”. Brilliant thinking there :roll:

The Klan was composed of conservative Democrats, overwhelmingly in the south, who stopped voting for the Democratic Party about the time the civil rights movement came around.

 

[Tigerace117]

I am still laughing at the above post.

We all know that at Gettysburg General Lee lost. But less told is how he was close to winning at one point. Credit the Union for recovering.

I am still laughing that you called the confederates my heros.

i don't see them that at all.

Let me outline my actual argument.
1. 7 states put this up to the vote. All 7 decided to depart the rest of the states. I am not saying right or wrong. just the facts they voted.
2. Sumter was a sideshow. Abe could have sent his navy there., But he was pissed and denied habeas Corpus and jailed many in the north. And he invaded VA who had not invaded him at the time. Lee later invaded Abes area.
So to you Above is your hero. To me he was the man who got shot to death at the Ford Theatre and died in a home across the same street and i saw his deathbed. PS, I also stood where Booth stood in the Ford Theater. i enjoy history that much.

That is my claim.

Mr. “Lee could have conducted guerrilla warfare in Pennsylvania” is laughing at a post? You’ve got no room to do so, but whatever floats your boat:roll:

I hate to break it to you bud but when you claim one thing, only to fall all over yourself fawning over the Confederates and desperately making excuses for the slavers, to the point where you excuse the attempted murder of US troops.....nobody’s buying what you are selling.

Seven states voting.....still does not give them the right to try and murder US soldiers, nor does it give them the right to avoid the consequences of declaring war on the US by shelling a US government fort.

The US Navy in 1860 was scattered all over the place, and Lincoln was trying not to inflame the situation. The only thing the US Navy, once amassed could have done is shelled Charleston into oblivion and caused the same effect that doing nothing would have done. Unlike the slavers, who never met a war they didn’t want, Lincoln didn’t want war— but once the slavers fired the first shots, he had no obligation to allow them to do anything.

And then Lincoln lead a successful war effort which destroyed the South’s delusions of glory, freed the slaves, and utterly wrecked your heroes once and for all.

 

[Tigerace117]

If you mean Republican then clearly i am no conservative.

Democrats, the same party of Slavery own the Klan. Don't try to wiggle out of your ownership. And i believe they are also the party of the Nazis.

Give how you talk to yourself, i won't reply to your self chats with yourself.

Why do blacks to a degree support Democrats? The smart ones refuse to vote for Democrats. The rest believe the Democrats pay them to be poor.

Considering that the overwhelming majority of African Americans do, in fact vote for the Democrats— and no, they don’t believe that the “Democrats pay them to be poor”— your post reeks of racism.

Shocking, coming from a confederate fanboy :roll:

Southern conservatives, who haven’t been a part of the party for decades. Your desperation is amusing, but it doesn’t change the facts.

The “party of the Nazis” :lamo

The Nazis are their own political party, so claiming that the Democrats are the “party of the Nazis” is pretty laughable.