Maryland Sen. Van Hollen meets with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador amid court fight over US return (1 Viewer)

[justoneman]

The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously rules that Judge Xinis "properly requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador."

They ordered the government

Happy now?

Yes I am very happy. The SC makes the point that the District Court may have exceeded its authority. It is a separation of power issue. The court cannot order the President to execute policy. Trump is not going to do anything at all. Good luck.

24A949 Order 4.10.25 deportation of Garcia to El Salvador

www.documentcloud.org

The application is granted in part and denied in part,subject to the direction of this order. Due to the adminis-trative stay issued by THE CHIEF J USTICE, the deadline im-posed by the District Court has now passed. To that extent,the Government’s emergency application is effectivelygranted in part and the deadline in the challenged order isno longer effective. The rest of the District Court’s orderremains in effect but requires clarification on remand. Theorder properly requires the Government to “facilitate”Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and toensure that his case is handled as it would have been hadhe not been improperly sent to El Salvador. The intendedscope of the term “effectuate” in the District Court’s orderis, however, unclear, and may exceed the District Court’sauthority. The District Court should clarify its directive,with due regard for the deference owed to the ExecutiveBranch in the conduct of foreign affairs. For its part, theGovernment should be prepared to share what it can con-cerning the steps it has taken and the prospect of furthersteps. The order heretofore entered by T HE CHIEF J USTICEis vacated.Statement of J USTICE SOTOMAYOR, with whom J USTICEKAGAN and J USTICE J ACKSON join, respecting the Court’sdisposition of the application

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[poweRob]

 

[jpn]

Yeah, actually it does. But I’m also disturbed by people exploiting it for partisan political purposes.

What's worse? Hypocrites will always be with us, but surely a person can speak up for people victimized in this way and not necessarily be guilty of hypocrisy.

 

[primaryKey]

Garcia had his day in court, immigration court in the Fall of 2019. The judge ruled there was sufficient credible evidence to order García's deportation. On appeal the higher appeals court upheld the deportation order.

The preponderance of the government's evidence presented to the courts showed García's membership in the MS-13 gang. That is the evidentiary basis of the court's decision.

Your response is a bit off key of the discussion I was responding to, but that's no matter. The evidentiary standard in an administrative immigration case is not the same as what we're talking about here.

The principal of innocent until proven guilty doesn't include your arbitrary, demogogery based condemnation of the immigration courts. Garcia had legal representation in the proceedings. Are you claiming immigration courts don't have authority to order deportations?

No, I'm saying they don't have the authority to order imprisonment, which is what we've done with this man and quite a few others. They certainly don't have the authority to send people to foreign prisons, which is exactly what we've done here.

Democrats condoned the massively destructive BLM riots without a court verdict in the George Floyd case, they praised thugs besieging SCOTUS justices families based on an alleged draft decision and demanded lynch mob justice for Kyle Rittenhouse before the jury entered its verdict. Somehow it isnt brave to support the rule of law in Mr García's deportation case in the face of Democrat condoned violence.

Nope, because Mr. Garcia's imprisonment is just as illegal as some of the other acts you rightfully decry. In fact, it's worse because it's the government - with the considerable power and means our government has - disappearing people with no notice, no habeas corpus, no rights. This may seem brave to you - sitting there behind your keyboard, but not me.

 

[AZRWinger]

HIs citizenship is irrelevant, he is entitled to due process. Yes, everyone deported by Biden was afforded due process.

Know your rights, just in case you get picked up:

Understand the deportation process | USAGov

Learn what a noncitizen can be deported for, and how the process works. Find out how you might get help if you are facing deportation.

www.usa.gov

Completely irrelevant... he is entitled to due process even if he is Jack the Ripper..... Trump, of all people should understand this ... he worked the "due process" angle to the point of exhaustion, and he actually is a criminal.

Garcia received due process in immigration court.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Garcia received due process in immigration court.

What he received in immigration court was a withholding removal status, which means he was not to be deported due to the credible threat the court believed. ICE did not challenge that ruling, so he's been here and compliant with the requirements of that status. ICE erroneously flagged him for deportation and held him illegally, then deported him to CECOT in error as well. Under no circumstances was there a reason to deport him, and even if there were, they sent him to the wrong place and imprisoned him without charge.

 

[AZRWinger]

Your response is a bit off key of the discussion I was responding to, but that's no matter. The evidentiary standard in an administrative immigration case is not the same as what we're talking about here.

This is an immigration law case under discussion.

No, I'm saying they don't have the authority to order imprisonment, which is what we've done with this man and quite a few others. They certainly don't have the authority to send people to foreign prisons, which is exactly what we've done here.

The US has every right to deport illegal aliens living in the US. That’s black letter law. The El Salvadoran government is who imprisoned him not the US.

Nope, because Mr. Garcia's imprisonment is just as illegal as some of the other acts you rightfully decry. In fact, it's worse because it's the government - with the considerable power and means our government has - disappearing people with no notice, no habeas corpus, no rights. This may seem brave to you - sitting there behind your keyboard, but not me.

Who has been disappeared? Not Garcia, his location is widely known. Notifying someone living illegally in the US they will be deported not only increases the likelihood of flight, it endangers the officers sent to take them into custody. Garcia had multiple days in immigration court where his rights were observed.

It takes courage to go out and apprehend violent gang member illehal aliens and deliver them humanely to their deportation destination.

 

[ElChupacabra]

This is an immigration law case under discussion.

The US has every right to deport illegal aliens living in the US. That’s black letter law. The El Salvadoran government is who imprisoned him not the US.

Who has been disappeared? Not Garcia, his location is widely known. Notifying someone living illegally in the US they will be deported not only increases the likelihood of flight, it endangers the officers sent to take them into custody. Garcia had multiple days in immigration court where his rights were observed.

It takes courage to go out and apprehend violent gang member illehal aliens and deliver them humanely to their deportation destination.

Incorrect. The US sent him to CECOT prison as it has done to other migrants, some not even El Salvadoran nationals. The El Salvadoran VP informed Sen. Van Hollen that their government is holding him because the US is paying them to, as they are to other migrants the US sent there. Garcia has not been charged with any crime, so he's being held there without even knowing why. The US government did that, and there is no disputing that basic fact.

 

[AZRWinger]

What he received in immigration court was a withholding removal status, which means he was not to be deported due to the credible threat the court believed. ICE did not challenge that ruling, so he's been here and compliant with the requirements of that status. ICE erroneously flagged him for deportation and held him illegally, then deported him to CECOT in error as well. Under no circumstances was there a reason to deport him, and even if there were, they sent him to the wrong place and imprisoned him without charge.

The immigration court held he could not be deported to El Salvador. He wasn't granted asylum, safe from all deportation.

There was an understandable administrative error deporting the Salvadoran citizen to his home country of El Salvador. It's false to claim he was deported by the US to prison. The sovereign nation of El Salvador determined he should be jailed.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The immigration court held he could not be deported to El Salvador. He wasn't granted asylum, safe from all deportation.

He was not granted asylum, no. He was granted withholding removal status which actually has a higher bar to clear, but does not allow a path for legal residency or is extended to family members. He was protected from deportation while he was compliant with the terms of the status, and there was no challenge to it. ICE did not challenge it when it was issued, so there was no reason to deport him because that order was done in error. Of course, aside from him being deported in error, he was sent to the wrong country and unlawfully imprisoned.

There was an understandable administrative error deporting the Salvadoran citizen to his home country of El Salvador.

What was "understandable" about it? They didn't go through the proper process to have him deported.

It's false to claim he was deported by the US to prison.

Not at all, because that is where the US sent him as they have Venezuelans and others. There was no reason to send him to CECOT since he had violated no laws and was not a violent criminal.

The sovereign nation of El Salvador determined he should be jailed.

Where are the charges?

 

[AZRWinger]

Incorrect. The US sent him to CECOT prison as it has done to other migrants, some not even El Salvadoran nationals. The El Salvadoran VP informed Sen. Van Hollen that their government is holding him because the US is paying them to, as they are to other migrants the US sent there. Garcia has not been charged with any crime, so he's being held there without even knowing why. The US government did that, and there is no disputing that basic fact.

The fact is the US deported Garcia to his home country. Once there he was subject to the jurisdiction of El Salvador not the US.

Senator Van Hollen's claims about his conversation with the El Salvador VP lack even a shred of credibility.

As an illegal alien determined to be an associate of a terrorist gang by the immigration court Garcia was subject to deportation. You are claiming he didn't know he was an illegal alien? Absurd.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The fact is the US deported Garcia to his home country.

Sure, but to CECOT prison. This is not in dispute.

Once there he was subject to the jurisdiction of El Salvador not the US.

Sure, and that's the con aspect of this the administration is trying to pull and why SCOTUS is putting the brakes on this. The US admitted to deporting Garcia in error, then it's made worse that he's sent to a prison when he was not in violation of any law. It would be bad enough the administration didn't bother to do its homework and know not to send him to El Salvador, but they sent him to a prison despite him not being charged with anything.

Senator Van Hollen's claims about his conversation with the El Salvador VP lack even a shred of credibility.

Is that right? You came to that conclusion how, exactly?

As an illegal alien determined to be an associate of a terrorist gang by the immigration court Garcia was subject to deportation.

He was not determined to be an associate of a terrorist gang. A court said it appeared that was the case based on sketchy double hearsay that had never been challenged in court, so it's not conclusive at all. Now you can repeat this nonsense of him being subject to deportation, but that action wasn't taken by ICE through the courts, which is why the administration itself isn't dumb enough to make that claim, making it odd you're choosing it.

You are claiming he didn't know he was an illegal alien? Absurd.

I did not. He was not here illegally at the time of his erroneous deportation because he was under a protected immigration status.

 

[jaypatriot]

Trump admitted they made a mistake
Scotus agreed
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled last week that Ábrego García’s deportation was a mistake

so how does Trump fix it?
It's (El Salvador) not his country; Garcia's not his citizen; and Trump is not Bukele's boss.

 

[jaypatriot]

Incorrect. The US sent him to CECOT prison as it has done to other migrants, some not even El Salvadoran nationals. The El Salvadoran VP informed Sen. Van Hollen that their government is holding him because the US is paying them to, as they are to other migrants the US sent there. Garcia has not been charged with any crime, so he's being held there without even knowing why. The US government did that, and there is no disputing that basic fact.

Do you ever feel you keep repeating the obvious and no one is doing anything about it?
No one is saying you are wrong about what happened to Garcia. It's simply that neither Trump nor Bukele wish to do anything about it.
Trump may pressure Bukele to release Garcia but only if Trump is caught in a legal bind and/or his approval ratings tend to dip too much.

 

[Lursa]

Garcia received due process in immigration court.

And SCOTUS has ruled 9-0 he should not have been handed over. Right? Which takes precedence?

 

[uptower]

Does MS 13 stand for something else besides MS 13 in your world?

 

[uptower]

Deportation of an illegal immigrant is due process

You seem to be conflating "illegal" with "brown".

Garcia was not in the county illegally.

Jesus talk about tell us without telling us, brah.

 

[Ahlevah]

What's worse? Hypocrites will always be with us, but surely a person can speak up for people victimized in this way and not necessarily be guilty of hypocrisy.

I understand that everyone—even the worst of the worst scum—deserves due process. But let’s keep it front and center in our minds that trying to sell alleged members of violent criminal gangs like Tren de Aragua and MS-13 to the American public as victims is a tall order.

 

[stealthycat]

I realize "BUH BUH BUH BIDEN" is forever the default defense of MAGAs, but of that 4.4 million, which ones did the Biden adminstration admit it made mistake and then refuse to correct it?

its very fair to look at how many Biden deported and what we demanded from him/his administration on deportations isn't it ? fair comparison

I don't know how many mistakes Biden made, I didn't care and neither did Democrats

 

[stealthycat]

Bullshit! Show us the documentation. Show us the proof. If you cannot then you are lying. Lie to yourself all you want. When you lie here many will see you for what your are. Your words have no meaning.

show me the proof that the 4.4 million Biden deported deserved it

you're asking for something you NEVER asked of Biden - why ? because you hate Trump, isn't that the truth ?

 

[AZRWinger]

He was not granted asylum, no. He was granted withholding removal status which actually has a higher bar to clear, but does not allow a path for legal residency or is extended to family members. He was protected from deportation while he was compliant with the terms of the status, and there was no challenge to it. ICE did not challenge it when it was issued, so there was no reason to deport him because that order was done in error. Of course, aside from him being deported in error, he was sent to the wrong country and unlawfully imprisoned.

How about the facts of the case instead of parroting Democrat talking points.

"But the judge who presided over his 2019 case said that based on the confidential information, there was sufficient evidence to support Mr Abrego Garcia's gang membership. That finding was later upheld by another judge.

As a result Mr Abrego Garcia was refused bail and remained in custody. During this time he applied for asylum to prevent his deportation to El Salvador.

In October 2019 he was granted a "withholding of removal" order, court documents show - a status different from asylum, but one which prevented the US government from sending him back to El Salvador because he could face harm"

Kilmar Abrego Garcia and MS-13: What is alleged and what we know

BBC Verify looks at the evidence behind allegations that the Salvadoran mistakenly deported to a mega-prison was a dangerous gang member.

www.bbc.com

Immigration courts determined Garcia was a gang member as such he could be deported. The courts also granted him a withholding of removal for deportation to El Salvador. They didn't grant a gang member blanket immunity from deportation.

What was "understandable" about it? They didn't go through the proper process to have him deported.

The presumptive destination for deportees is their home country. After the 2019 court determination of his gang membership Garcia faced deportation to his native El Salvador. At his request the court enjoined the US from deporting him to his home country. But, he could still be deported elsewhere.

Not at all, because that is where the US sent him as they have Venezuelans and others. There was no reason to send him to CECOT since he had violated no laws and was not a violent criminal.

Garcia was deported to the country of his citizenship due to an administrative error. The sovereign nation of El Salvador decided to send the gang member to prison, not the US. No doubt thousands of El Salvadoran citizens deported by the US have been set free on the streets of their country. They weren't gang members like Garcia.

Where are the charges?

As much as Democrats would like to undermine the rule of law by simply ignoring our immigration rules, they do exist. Illegally entering the US is an offense punishable by deportation.

 

[AZRWinger]

And SCOTUS has ruled 9-0 he should not have been handed over. Right? Which takes precedence?

The SCOTUS ruled Garcia shouldn't have been deported to El Salvador. They didn't bar his deportation to another country.

Even if Van Hollen's publicity stunt had succeeded in returning Garcia to the US it's likely he would have been deported to another destination.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Do you ever feel you keep repeating the obvious and no one is doing anything about it?

Oh, totally. There's a lot of people making idiotic and incorrect comments.

No one is saying you are wrong about what happened to Garcia. It's simply that neither Trump nor Bukele wish to do anything about it.
Trump may pressure Bukele to release Garcia but only if Trump is caught in a legal bind and/or his approval ratings tend to dip too much.

Indeed, which is why the public needs to keep the pressure on. Leaders who wish to subvert the basic rights of individuals get away with it because people look the other way and say nothing. Much of the attention brought thus far is to bring up the obvious legal issues with this.

 

[ElChupacabra]

How about the facts of the case instead of parroting Democrat talking points.

Nothing I've said are Democrat talking points, but the facts of the case. I can't help it if you and others have been fabricating all sorts of excuses. Let's see if you fare better this time.

"But the judge who presided over his 2019 case said that based on the confidential information, there was sufficient evidence to support Mr Abrego Garcia's gang membership. That finding was later upheld by another judge.

As a result Mr Abrego Garcia was refused bail and remained in custody. During this time he applied for asylum to prevent his deportation to El Salvador.

Correct, and this evidence is all double hearsay and never cross examined by anyone. The best part is the informant in question stated Garcia was a member of an MS-13 chapter that was in NY, where Garcia has never lived. Even with this court finding, he was still issued protective status which includes the requirement he not be a threat to people here. Odd, no? ICE did not challenge the Oct 19 ruling granting him protective status and gave him a work permit.

In October 2019 he was granted a "withholding of removal" order, court documents show - a status different from asylum, but one which prevented the US government from sending him back to El Salvador because he could face harm"

Kilmar Abrego Garcia and MS-13: What is alleged and what we know

BBC Verify looks at the evidence behind allegations that the Salvadoran mistakenly deported to a mega-prison was a dangerous gang member.

www.bbc.com

Correct, yet for some reason he was sent to El Salvador without any order for removal that came as a result of a challenge to his existing protective status.

Immigration courts determined Garcia was a gang member as such he could be deported. The courts also granted him a withholding of removal for deportation to El Salvador. They didn't grant a gang member blanket immunity from deportation.

Indeed, but the point you miss is there was never any order to deport him. It is true the government can deport him, but there would have to be an order to do so and that was not the case here. The government admitted his deportation was an administrative error. This is why a variety of lower courts and the Supreme Court have issued the rulings they have. Why are you making a case the very administration isn't making? Perhaps you should write Pam Bondi and ask her why she is not taking the position you're positing here.

The presumptive destination for deportees is their home country. After the 2019 court determination of his gang membership Garcia faced deportation to his native El Salvador. At his request the court enjoined the US from deporting him to his home country. But, he could still be deported elsewhere.

Yet he wasn't, and worse still, he was imprisoned despite him not having been charged with anything in this country or El Salvador.

Garcia was deported to the country of his citizenship due to an administrative error. The sovereign nation of El Salvador decided to send the gang member to prison, not the US. No doubt thousands of El Salvadoran citizens deported by the US have been set free on the streets of their country. They weren't gang members like Garcia.

Incorrect, and yet again you are taking a position the administration is not taking. They stated the deportation itself was the administrative error, which even based on your framing would mean they made three errors, since they not only deported him without having followed the process for doing so, sent him to the wrong country, and unlawfully imprisoned him because they sent him to CECOT. This is why the administration isn't making the case you are, because it's all sorts of wrong and exposes them to more legal jeopardy.

As much as Democrats would like to undermine the rule of law by simply ignoring our immigration rules, they do exist. Illegally entering the US is an offense punishable by deportation.

The Democrats are fighting for exactly that because they are focused on the due process aspect of this, which is reinforced by the rulings of the Supreme Court as well in a rare 9-0 ruling supporting the position I've just made. What you are supporting is the exact opposite, since you are advocating for the executive branch to have the right to deport people at will and with no due process.