Marines say they're being 'crushed' over vaccine refusal: 'A political purge' (1 Viewer)

[armycowboy]

They still are not getting vaccinated. So dumb to want to mandate citizens but not immigrants.
The left would rather admit an illegal unvaccinated person into our country and throw out a dedicated marine.
We are all wired different I guess!!

You're confusing members of the Military with illegal aliens entering this country. Please stop making stupid posts.

 

[armycowboy]

l Im glad you agree these exemptions are "bullshit" , the entire process looks to be the same

Does this post make sense to anyone?

 

[armycowboy]

Exactly. The "religious exception" has to be one that is long standing and part of an actual article of faith among an established religion. Not just what one guy says who is the entire clerical staff of the "Church of Happy Thoughts". And so far, has any major religion said that it is rejecting the vaccination on religious grounds?

And yes, Sikhs are given exceptions for their beards and turbans. But notice, that is only stateside. If they deploy to a war zone, they have to follow the standards of the rest of the military for several reasons. The beards go away, because they can prevent a gas mask from sealing. And the turbans also go away because it can make them stand out, and therefore become a target.

And all who join are aware of this. There are other exceptions that are allowed, such as Jews wearing yamalukes. But once again, only stateside. When deployed, they stay off other than when observing religious rites. I have also served with many Muslims. They are already forgiven by their faith if their service causes them to miss their daily prayers, and not fasting because it would interfere with their military duties. And I find it hard to believe that other "religions" have requirements more stringent than most Muslims are expected to follow. Even Kosher and Halal dietary rules are forgiven for those in the service.

I got to have a beard on active duty. In fact, during one deployment it was "highly suggested" I grew a beard, You know what "highly suggested" means.

 

[Oozlefinch]

They still are not getting vaccinated. So dumb to want to mandate citizens but not immigrants.

Nobody is mandating "citizens", it is the military that is mandated.

And in case you were not aware of this, the military has very different and much higher standards than being a civilian. In fact, this may shock you. You do not even have to be a citizen to be in the military.

So please, stay on topic. We are discussing the Military, and Marines in specific. Not illegals, not "citizens". There is no mandate that the general public get it.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Good post. I learned some stuff. I hate that! LOL

Well, I have served with both. And trust me, it was rather strange at first, seeing a guy in an ACU turban.

But that was mostly because Captain Rattan was wearing it inside, and we do not traditionally wear our head gear inside unless we are under arms. And yes, I served with Captain Rattan, and he is a fine Officer.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I got to have a beard on active duty. In fact, during one deployment it was "highly suggested" I grew a beard, You know what "highly suggested" means.

Hell, I was old enough to remember when Chief Petty Officers in the Navy could have beards.

When that order was changed (I want to say 1984-1985), more than a few dropped in their retirement packages as it was one of their perks of being a "Chief".

 

[Colin Norris]

Marines say they're being 'crushed' over vaccine refusal: 'A political purge'

U.S. Marines say they are being "crushed" by President Biden’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate as thousands face dismissal after their applications for religious exemptions were denied.

www.foxnews.com

Marines are allowed to apply for a religious exemption, but so far not a single application regarding the COVID-19 vaccine, or any vaccine for that matter, has been approved, a Marine Corps spokesman told Fox News.

he Marines who spoke with Fox News said they were on the receiving end of a "blanket" denial of religious exemptions, with their applications being rejected without consideration. Eight separate letters of denial provided to Fox News were nearly identical, citing "military readiness" as the primary reason for rejection.

"I saw one package from a sergeant who had attached, like, 30 pages of material to substantiate why his belief was sincere, under no lawful obligation to do so," the master sergeant said. "And then to have this as a response with no individual inquiry and just a generalized assertion of governmental interest is insulting."

The ones who refuse are republicans. That's the problem.
On religious grounds is a cop out and no where does it say it in the bible or constitution.

 

[Oozlefinch]

The ones who refuse are republicans. That's the problem.

Anti-vaxxers are in both sides politically. It is just that until recently, the loudest ones were mostly Democrats.

But insanity knows no political boundaries.

 

[Colin Norris]

Anti-vaxxers are in both sides politically. It is just that until recently, the loudest ones were mostly Democrats.

But insanity knows no political boundaries.

Not in this case. They are republicans and no amount of denying will change that.

 

[Oozlefinch]

They are republicans and no amount of denying will change that.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. strode onto the stage at a Southern California church, radiating Kennedy confidence and surveying the standing ovation crowd with his piercing blue Bobby Kennedy eyes. Then, he launched into an anti-vaccine rant. Democrats “drank the Kool-Aid,” he told people assembled for a far right conference, branded as standing for “health and freedom.”

“It is criminal medical malpractice to give a child one of these vaccines,” Kennedy contended, according to a video of the event, one of his many assertions that ignored or went against legal, scientific and public health consensus.

How a Kennedy built an anti-vaccine juggernaut amid COVID-19

PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) — Robert F. Kennedy Jr. strode onto the stage at a Southern California church, radiating Kennedy confidence and surveying the standing ovation crowd with his piercing blue Bobby Kennedy eyes.

apnews.com

Since when is Robert Kennedy Jr. a "Republican"?

Do not blind yourself, they are the loudest at the moment, but it really does cover both sides. In fact, traditionally the far-left has been the home of that movement. But most are staying quiet as most of the resistance is more political than actual. So the "left anti-vaxxers" are now quiet as they are the party in control.

 

[Peter King]

Marines say they're being 'crushed' over vaccine refusal: 'A political purge'

U.S. Marines say they are being "crushed" by President Biden’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate as thousands face dismissal after their applications for religious exemptions were denied.

www.foxnews.com

Marines are allowed to apply for a religious exemption, but so far not a single application regarding the COVID-19 vaccine, or any vaccine for that matter, has been approved, a Marine Corps spokesman told Fox News.

he Marines who spoke with Fox News said they were on the receiving end of a "blanket" denial of religious exemptions, with their applications being rejected without consideration. Eight separate letters of denial provided to Fox News were nearly identical, citing "military readiness" as the primary reason for rejection.

"I saw one package from a sergeant who had attached, like, 30 pages of material to substantiate why his belief was sincere, under no lawful obligation to do so," the master sergeant said. "And then to have this as a response with no individual inquiry and just a generalized assertion of governmental interest is insulting."

I think these marines are foolish to the level of being politically refusing vaccination. If you are a marine and you need to be sent to a country where malaria and other foreign diseases are prevalent, you will get your shots to protect you and your fellow marines.

These marines refuse to protect themselves and their fellow marines and do it for a politically based reason/conspiracy theory and if they loose their jobs, well then they did that to themselves.

 

[MaryP]

earlier you said ( think it was you) that marines expect force attrition - so which is it?
does it matter or not?
And it's obviously not a permanent. It's this vaxx or they wouldn't even get into service

And why are the allowing exemptions ( if sincerely held beliefs) applications if they are going to not allow any of it?

I'm pretty sure what is happening is they aren't really giving due process ( and I mean administrative due process)
and careful consideration. They are just using force readiness as a catch all, or theer would have been at lest some
rejected over not meeting religious exceptions metrics

We heard you the first ten times you said it, Anatta.

The thousands of requests suddenly springing up for a religious exemption to the Covid vaccine are bullshit. No religion forbids vaccination. Do not expect these phonies to be respected or waste your sympathy on them. They are being dishonest and trying to take advantage of a system that, when it's genuine, is respected by the military. This is not one of those times. It is they who are disrespecting religion, not the military.

 

[anatta]

We heard you the first ten times you said it, Anatta.

The thousands of requests suddenly springing up for a religious exemption to the Covid vaccine are bullshit. No religion forbids vaccination. Do not expect these phonies to be respected or waste your sympathy on them. They are being dishonest and trying to take advantage of a system that, when it's genuine, is respected by the military. This is not one of those times. It is they who are disrespecting religion, not the military.

ive already gone over the flaw in this that the exemptions are not being refused due to lack of "sincere belief"

 

[MaryP]

ive already gone over the flaw in this that the exemptions are not being refused due to lack of "sincere belief"

It is not a sincere belief.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Hell, I was old enough to remember when Chief Petty Officers in the Navy could have beards.

When that order was changed (I want to say 1984-1985), more than a few dropped in their retirement packages as it was one of their perks of being a "Chief".

Ummmm.......everyone could grow a beard. Not just CPO's.

 

[Fledermaus]

and yet none of the border bodies crossing over get vaccin

ive already gone over the flaw in this that the exemptions are not being refused due to lack of "sincere belief"

Keep bleating your remaining talking point.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Keep bleating your remaining talking point.

The Marine Corps Is Rapidly Forcing Out Vaccine Refusers, As Promised

According to the Corps’ latest update, it has separated 206 Marines to date with the vaccine refusal discharge code.

www.military.com

Found this little snippet interesting when you think about it.

Some have been trying to claim that the rejections are because of an attempt to purge certain individuals based on COVID. This now appears false. The impact on unit readiness by having unvaccinated individuals put into a permanent undeployable state has been the standard well preceding the rise of COVID.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

Ummmm.......everyone could grow a beard. Not just CPO's.

This is true, had to shave my beard in 1984. That may have been a little earlier for shore duty assignments, but I was on a ship when the order came down. I was a 2nd Class at the time. Made Chief a few years after that.

WW

 

[Oozlefinch]

ive already gone over the flaw in this that the exemptions are not being refused due to lack of "sincere belief"

And name a single religion that forbids the COVID vaccine, but allows others.

And as I said, an actual mainstream religion, not the "Church of Bob".

 

[Oozlefinch]

Some have been trying to claim that the rejections are because of an attempt to purge certain individuals based on COVID. This now appears false. The impact on unit readiness by having unvaccinated individuals put into a permanent undeployable state has been the standard well preceding the rise of COVID.

Or even the reverse.

There are always some that hate getting shots. And when I deployed in 2009-2010, it was during the H1N1 outbreak. And one of the mandates was that you get vaccinated before getting on the plane to return home.

I wonder if that was the case now, how many of those refusing would still refuse if they were overseas, and could not go home without it. I bet the number would be around zero.

 

[Oozlefinch]

This is true, had to shave my beard in 1984. That may have been a little earlier for shore duty assignments, but I was on a ship when the order came down. I was a 2nd Class at the time. Made Chief a few years after that.

My first duty was at a Naval Weapon Station, and the only beards I saw were on Chiefs. Never did any ship duty until years later.

 

[WorldWatcher]

And name a single religion that forbids the COVID vaccine, but allows others.

And as I said, an actual mainstream religion, not the "Church of Bob".

And that is the important point. And two points have to be addressed:

#1 What is reason for the selective application of this vaccine and not other vaccines and other medications that may fall under the same reasoning?

#2 Since religious exemptions are permanent, how would allowing a permanent religious exemption for all vaccines and medicines applicable under the individuals stated reasoning impact their deployability and thereby unit readiness?

WW

 

[Tigerace117]

They still are not getting vaccinated. So dumb to want to mandate citizens but not immigrants.
The left would rather admit an illegal unvaccinated person into our country and throw out a dedicated marine.
We are all wired different I guess!!

If they were really “dedicated” they’d obey lawful orders. This is really isn’t that hard.

 

[Alexios Makaris]

Anti-vaxxers are in both sides politically. It is just that until recently, the loudest ones were mostly Democrats.

But insanity knows no political boundaries.

Until the mid-2010s I'd say it would be fair to state that "most" opposition to vaccines was from the left side of the spectrum. It was, back then at least, a very niche viewpoint entirely, and a lot of the people involved don't easily match up with either the Dem or Republican party (a lot of them would match up with more bizarre small parties with strange beliefs.) There was a big overlap between people who believed in things like mysticism and "crystal healing" and hippie shit like that and being anti-vaccination. One of the least vaccinated zip codes in the United States was this island (Vashon Island) off of the coast of Washington near Seattle, where a ton of hippies basically lived and refused modern medicine because it isn't "natural."

But by the mid-2010s you were starting to see a shift, albeit a small one % wise. There was a growing movement that basically felt parents should have absolute control over public schools, to the point they should be able to overrule any school curriculum or school policy under the guise of "parental rights", and part of that was a growing opposition to the longstanding practice of requiring students to get vaccinated to attend public schools. Prior to the growth of this movement, some Republican states actually had the highest rates of school vaccination of any States in the country--both West Virginia and Mississippi for example had extremely high vaccination rates among school children.

Come Covid it seemed like this "wing" of the GOP started to get more powerful, I think part of it was the various contradictory and often poorly thought-out pandemic edicts that have come down. Most reasonable people know that some covid edicts and restrictions were logical and sane, but some were simply not, some seemed to change weekly and bear little relationship to proven science. This annoyed (understandably) a lot of people who really got tired of having to listen to these edicts that often times represented unprecedented intrusions of government into daily life. I think this led to an unfortunate and large "backlash" against the entire concept of public health. We end up then in the weird place near the end of 2020 where arguably one of the biggest accomplishments of Trump's Presidency was Operation Warp Speed (something I note the Democrats give him no credit for out of anti-Trumpism and Republicans give him no credit for because they're afraid of stirring up the anti-vaxxers in their midst); but more Democrats supported getting vaccinated than Republicans. I think there's a degree to which a big segment of the party threw the baby out with the bath water, while many pandemic restrictions, public health and CDC guidelines were frankly harmful, unscientific, and poorly thought out--the science of vaccination is none of those things, it is unfortunate it got "tarred by association" with all the various pandemic shutdown activities etc and that led to a conservative backlash.

 

[armycowboy]

ive already gone over the flaw in this that the exemptions are not being refused due to lack of "sincere belief"

You've been told over and over, by people that served, it doesn't matter if the service member has a "sincere belief" or not. The Marine Corps didn't join these Marines, the Marines joined the Corps. Therefore, if their beliefs, sincere or not, interfere with their units' combat readiness, they cannot continue to serve.