March for Science, what a joke!

[Grand Mal]

other thread

There's nothing in he other thread that tell's me what you know about relativity or why it's a hoax. I'm looking for a discussion here, as you must be.
Tell me what you know about relativity and why it's a scam.
Or shut up and hope I'll go away.

 

[Pin dÁr]

There's nothing in he other thread that tell's me what you know about relativity or why it's a hoax. I'm looking for a discussion here, as you must be.
Tell me what you know about relativity and why it's a scam.
Or shut up and hope I'll go away.

other thread.

 

[BillRM]

Hmmmm lots of people here are confusing technology with 'science'

They are really not the same.

Oh so you think you can design and create a field effect transistor without understanding such subjects as Maxwell equations and Quantum mechanics?

Or set up a global satellite GPS network without being able to take into account the theory of relativity as far as it effects on the satellites clocks?

https://www.wired.com/2011/06/st_equation_gps/

EINSTEIN KNEW WHAT he was talking about with that relativity stuff. For proof, just look at your GPS. The global positioning system relies on 24 satellites that transmit time-stamped information on where they are. Your GPS unit registers the exact time at which it receives that information from each satellite and then calculates how long it took for the individual signals to arrive. By multiplying the elapsed time by the speed of light, it can figure out how far it is from each satellite, compare those distances, and calculate its own position.

For accuracy to within a few meters, the satellites’ atomic clocks have to be extremely precise—plus or minus 10 nanoseconds. Here’s where things get weird: Those amazingly accurate clocks never seem to run quite right. One second as measured on the satellite never matches a second as measured on Earth—just as Einstein predicted.

According to Einstein’s special theory of relativity, a clock that’s traveling fast will appear to run slowly from the perspective of someone standing still. Satellites move at about 9,000 mph—enough to make their onboard clocks slow down by 8 microseconds per day from the perspective of a GPS gadget and totally screw up the location data. To counter this effect, the GPS system adjusts the time it gets from the satellites by using the equation here. (Don’t even get us started on the impact of general relativity.)

The amount of time that has elapsed on Earth during the time Δt.

An amount of time, as measured on the satellite. Say, one second.

Velocity of the satellite (about 9,000 mph).

 

[camlok]

Of course I can't be concrete. That's a building material. People are flesh and blood. Maybe if you'd stayed awake during science you'd know that.

M-W: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concrete
concrete
a : characterized by or belonging to immediate experience of actual things or events
b : specific, particular a concrete proposal
c : real, tangible concrete evidence

Even with concrete proof of how wrong you were/are, you'll still likely go into your preferred deep denial, Tigerace.

 

[Tigerace117]

Even with concrete proof of how wrong you were/are, you'll still likely go into your preferred deep denial, Tigerace.

And yet again, you fail miserably at proving anything.

 

[spud_meister]

I'm kinda annoyed the held the March for Science in April.

 

[Pin dÁr]

Oh so you think you can design and create a field effect transistor without understanding such subjects as Maxwell equations and Quantum mechanics?

yes.

Or set up a global satellite GPS network without being able to take into account the theory of relativity as far as it effects on the satellites clocks?

yes

 

[Hypnotoad]

yes.

yes

Well then. Let's see your papers on the subject. Let's see your notes. Let's see you putting your cards on the table.

 

[Pin dÁr]

Well then. Let's see your papers on the subject. Let's see your notes. Let's see you putting your cards on the table.

well, what I mean is that it is possible to make transistors without knowledge of QM, because the transistor was invented before there was any QM!

It is as with ALL in "modern physics". NOTHING is because of 'modern physics' because everything was invented before there were any 'modern physics' theories,.That is to say, 'modern physics' pretends it made inventions possible, but it has never been the case.
'modern physics' hijacked those, so to speak. It must be this way because 'modern physics' has it really all wrong.

 

[Hypnotoad]

well, what I mean is that it is possible to make transistors without knowledge of QM, because the transistor was invented before there was any QM!

And they were making Gunpowder long before there was an understanding of chemistry. Doesn't invalidate chemistry does it?

 

[zyzygy]

Transistors are the fundamental hardware elements in microprocessors – they represent bits of information in the way they conduct electricity (on = 1, off = 0).

Transistors are fabricated from materials known as semiconductors, in which charge-carrying electrons are only allowed to occupy certain discrete energy levels, as determined by quantum physics. As more electrons are added they form allowed “bands” in a prescribed manner.

The resultant energy “bandstructure,” which can be modified by applying voltages to wires connected to the device, gives rise to the switching behavior from which we build fundamental electrical elements.

Without quantum mechanics we would have no understanding of semiconductors, could not have engineered the transistor, and thus would have no microprocessors.

Explainer: Quantum physics

 

[Pin dÁr]

Without quantum mechanics we would have no understanding of semiconductors, could not have engineered the transistor, and thus would have no microprocessors.

wrong! as I have written the transistor was here before there was a good understanding of quantum mechanics.
So, it is clearly possible.the transitor was engineered before the quantum mechanics,

 

[Pin dÁr]

And they were making Gunpowder long before there was an understanding of chemistry. Doesn't invalidate chemistry does it?

No, but that was not what this was about!
It is said that QM was necessary to make transistors. This is simply not true,
I am not invalidating quantum mechanics (at least not here, in reality qm is bollocks), i am saying qm was not needed to invent the transistor. You are twisting my words here.

 

[BillRM]

wrong! as I have written the transistor was here before there was a good understanding of quantum mechanics.
So, it is clearly possible.the transitor was engineered before the quantum mechanics,

Note I happen to not said just transistors but field effect transistors as in (QFET) for one thing less alone such things as tunnel diodes that are also widely used in setting up computer networks.

An understanding of Quantum mechanics is now needed in all aspects of modern electronic networks elements and modern computer boards including the design of CPU chips

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QFET

A quantum field effect transistor (QFET) is a kind of field effect transistor that takes advantage of quantum tunneling to greatly increase the speed of transistor operation by eliminating the traditional transistor's area of electron conduction which typically causes carriers to slow down by a factor of 3000. The result is an increase in logic speed by a factor of 10 with a simultaneous reduction in component power requirement and size also by a factor of 10. It achieves these things through a manufacturing process known as rapid thermal processing (RTP) that uses ultrafine layers of construction materials.[1]
The letters "QFET" also currently exist as a trademarked name of a series of MOSFETs produced by Fairchild Semiconductor which contain a proprietary double-diffused metal–oxide–semiconductor (DMOS) technology but which are not, in fact, quantum-based (the Q in this case standing for "quality").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode

A tunnel diode or Esaki diode is a type of semiconductor that is capable of very fast operation, well into the microwave frequency region, made possible by the use of the quantum mechanical effect called tunneling.
It was invented in August 1957 by Leo Esaki, Yuriko Kurose and Takashi Suzuki when they were working at Tokyo Tsushin Kogyo, now known as Sony.[1][2][3][4] In 1973 Esaki received the Nobel Prize in Physics, jointly with Brian Josephson, for discovering the electron tunneling effect used in these diodes. Robert Noyce independently came up with the idea of a tunnel diode while working for William Shockley, but was discouraged from pursuing it.[5]

 

[Northern Light]

Anti-intellectualism strikes again.

Up is down. Black is white. Right is left. Freedom is slavery.

relativity, evolution, cosmology, physics, the list is endless.

Theoretical science, also known as... theoretical.

Physics? lol...
You're aware you're using a computer, right?

 

[Pin dÁr]

Anti-intellectualism strikes again.

Up is down. Black is white. Right is left. Freedom is slavery.



Theoretical science, also known as... theoretical.

Physics? lol...
You're aware you're using a computer, right?

yes, but that is NOT because of 'modern science' at all

 

[Pin dÁr]

Note I happen to not said just transistors but field effect transistors as in (QFET) for one thing less alone such things as tunnel diodes that are also widely used in setting up computer networks.

An understanding of Quantum mechanics is now needed in all aspects of modern electronic networks elements and modern computer boards including the design of CPU chips

Well, even field effect transistors were invented before quantum physics, its clearly not needed.
besides from the fact that quantum mechanics is all bollocks.

 

[BillRM]

Well, even field effect transistors were invented before quantum physics, its clearly not needed.
besides from the fact that quantum mechanics is all bollocks.

My lord once more I was talking about (QFET) FET.

A quantum field effect transistor (QFET) is a kind of field effect transistor that takes advantage of quantum tunneling to greatly increase the speed of transistor operation by eliminating the traditional transistor's area of electron conduction which typically causes carriers to slow down by a factor of 3000. The result is an increase in logic speed by a factor of 10 with a simultaneous reduction in component power requirement and size also by a factor of 10. It achieves these things through a manufacturing process known as rapid thermal processing (RTP) that uses ultrafine layers of construction materials.[1]

A knowledge of QM is employed in most to all modern electronic with special note of smart phones and laptop computers where both small power demands and speed both are needed.

In any case, QM is far far beyond an unproven theory as the knowledge of QM is in everyday engineering use and design.

 

[Pin dÁr]

My lord once more I was talking about (QFET) FET.

o ok, take it easy, mate!

I will look into this one. but because qm is all bollocks this can't be true as well.

 

[BillRM]

Footnote Einstein theory of relativity is also employed in everyday engineering use such as in the GPS network calculations.

Once a science theory had gone to being bake into hardware such as the GPS system or computer chips it is both a little late and a like ridiculous to claim the theory involved is not valid.

 

[Pin dÁr]

Footnote Einstein theory of relativity is also employed in everyday engineering use such as in the GPS network calculations.

GPS, as I have written here before, doens't need relativity corrections, works just fine without them,

 

[BillRM]

GPS, as I have written here before, doens't need relativity corrections, works just fine without them,

Not if you wish to have pinpoint accuracy that require relativity corrections just to begin with.

 

[Pin dÁr]

Not if you wish to have pinpoint accuracy that require relativity corrections just to begin with.

again, it is not needed:

To offset these two effects, the GPS engineers reset the clock rates, slowing them down before launch by 39,000 nanoseconds a day. They then proceed to tick in orbit at the same rate as ground clocks, and the system "works." Ground observers can indeed pin-point their position to a high degree of precision. In (Einstein) theory, however, it was expected that because the orbiting clocks all move rapidly and with varying speeds relative to any ground observer (who may be anywhere on the Earth's surface), and since in Einstein's theory the relevant speed is always speed relative to the observer, it was expected that continuously varying relativistic corrections would have to be made to clock rates. This in turn would have introduced an unworkable complexity into the GPS. But these corrections were not made. Yet "the system manages to work, even though they use no relativistic corrections after launch," Van Flandern said. "They have basically blown off Einstein."

Tom Van Flandern Articles

 

[zyzygy]

To determine its location, the GPS receiver uses the time at which each signal from a satellite was emitted, as determined by the on-board atomic clock and encoded into the signal, together the with speed of light, to calculate the distance between itself and the satellites it communicated with. The orbit of each satellite is known accurately. Given enough satellites, it is a simple problem in Euclidean geometry to compute the receiver's precise location, both in space and time. To achieve a navigation accuracy of 15 meters, time throughout the GPS system must be known to an accuracy of 50 nanoseconds, which simply corresponds to the time required for light to travel 15 meters.

But at 38 microseconds per day, the relativistic offset in the rates of the satellite clocks is so large that, if left uncompensated, it would cause navigational errors that accumulate faster than 10 km per day! GPS accounts for relativity by electronically adjusting the rates of the satellite clocks, and by building mathematical corrections into the computer chips which solve for the user's location. Without the proper application of relativity, GPS would fail in its navigational functions within about 2 minutes.
http://physicscentral.com/explore/writers/will.cfm

 

[Pin dÁr]

To determine its location, the GPS receiver uses the time at which each signal from a satellite was emitted, as determined by the on-board atomic clock and encoded into the signal, together the with speed of light, to calculate the distance between itself and the satellites it communicated with. The orbit of each satellite is known accurately. Given enough satellites, it is a simple problem in Euclidean geometry to compute the receiver's precise location, both in space and time. To achieve a navigation accuracy of 15 meters, time throughout the GPS system must be known to an accuracy of 50 nanoseconds, which simply corresponds to the time required for light to travel 15 meters.

But at 38 microseconds per day, the relativistic offset in the rates of the satellite clocks is so large that, if left uncompensated, it would cause navigational errors that accumulate faster than 10 km per day! GPS accounts for relativity by electronically adjusting the rates of the satellite clocks, and by building mathematical corrections into the computer chips which solve for the user's location. Without the proper application of relativity, GPS would fail in its navigational functions within about 2 minutes.
http://physicscentral.com/explore/writers/will.cfm

again, it is not needed at all!