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Man shot by police

robin

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If they shot the guy when he was restrained on the ground then they've broken every rule in the book !
This will stirr up more violence
 

KevinWan

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robin said:
If they shot the guy when he was restrained on the ground then they've broken every rule in the book !
This will stirr up more violence
...the man JUMPED over the turnstyles, tripped, as he was RUNNING onto a train! He was wearing a large padded winter coat, when supposedly its reletively warm in London... After two terror attacks on the "tube" you'd just want to let him go through without shooting him?!? I wouldn't be taking that many chances at a time like this. And it mustn't be against the "rules" if the police carry guns anyway. I know here in the US it certainly isn't against the "rules" to kill a guy like this.
 

cnredd

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I'm just pointing out a deifference in philosophy here...

Isn't it weird that one person(KevinWan) gives the police the benefit of the doubt while another(robin) doesn't...

If they shot the guy when he was restrained on the ground then they've broken every rule in the book ! - negative connotation toward the cops

After two terror attacks on the "tube" you'd just want to let him go through without shooting him?!? - negative connotation toward the supect
 

cnredd

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galenrox said:
yeah, I'm waiting till I know more details. I hate cops though.
Bad "run-in"?
 

Cougar

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Point of the story:

If you are stopped comply otherwise be shot!

Here in NYC they are checking bags etc... if you don't like it take a cab.... screw you wacko's for crying out b/c its against your civil rights. The greater good is at stake and you have other options for travel.

If you act suspicious, you should be treated as such and appropriate action taken. Ignorace is bliss when your dead!
 

cnredd

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Cougar said:
Point of the story:

If you are stopped comply otherwise be shot!

Here in NYC they are checking bags etc... if you don't like it take a cab.... screw you wacko's for crying out b/c its against your civil rights. The greater good is at stake and you have other options for travel.

If you act suspicious, you should be treated as such and appropriate action taken. Ignorace is bliss when your dead!
A little harsh, but ageed...

Whethor or not a suspect is right or wrong, so many problems can be diverted with a simple "Yes, officer" and "No, officer".
 

cnredd

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galenrox said:
I beg to ****ing differ! I have never been anything but extremely accomidating and polite to police officers, and you know what that's gotten me? I had my car searched entirely in the middle of downtown, because the cop claimed he found a "green leafy substance" which was ****ing lettuce, and it's gotten me forced to stand in below 0 temperatures without a coat for almost an hour, it's gotten my friends beaten and hassled, the "yes officer, no officer" isn't too much of a defense.
Strangely enough having a completely clean record wasn't much of one either. If you look a certain way that makes people scared you have no rights, that's what I've learned.
After reading some of your posts, I'd search your car, too!;)

I said that problems CAN be diverted....not WILL be diverted...

I got stopped coming out of a bar when I forgot to turn my lights on...I figured this out as he got out of his car and was walking toward me...He said,"Do you know why I pulled you over?"...I said, "Let me guess...One of us didn't have our lights on...and it wasn't you." He just laughed and walked back to his car...
 
H

HTColeman

From what I've heard, he tripped and fell and they shot him, he wasn't restrained. But it was kind of stupid, no chance for questioning, getting more information...

And wouldn't it suck if it turns out he was just wierd (wearing the bulky coat) and not a terrorist?
 

Simon W. Moon

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cnredd said:
A little harsh, but ageed...
In the US, the rules as I understand them are that the use of deadly force requires that there be threat. In ordinary circumstances, you can't shoot a fleeing felon and certainly not on that has been tackled.
As to the dead guy in London, one of the eyewitness accounts says "...they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him. "
Since I assume the rules as to the use of deadly force to be similar in the UK as they are here, I expect that the officers had reason to belive that lives were in danger. This may not be the case, yet without any evidence to think otherwise, I'll assume that the cops were acting professionally. All that the fella would have to do to detonate a bomb would be to move his thumb squeezing a trigger. So prob'ly the cops thought that there was cause for thoroughly disabling the suspect.

However, the bar for such treatment of a suspect should be high.
 

Calm2Chaos

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galenrox said:
more times than I like to remember. You know, it sucks cause I can't do **** about it either, cause who are they gonna believe, a tattooed and pierced punk rocker or a cop?
But yeah, I've been abused by cops too ****ing many times, so now I just hate cops.

So you were just inocently sitting there and they walked up an harrased and or arrested you?
 

Stinger

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HTColeman said:
From what I've heard, he tripped and fell and they shot him, he wasn't restrained. But it was kind of stupid, no chance for questioning, getting more information...
No chance to set off a bomb.

I heard the witnessess on the radio this morning, he ran in jumped a turnstile, forced his way into a car and when the plain cloth police screamed for everyone to get down he didn't.

HTColeman said:
And wouldn't it suck if it turns out he was just wierd (wearing the bulky coat) and not a terrorist?
They had already tied him to the terrorist and had followed him from his apartment.

We are at war, don't act suspicious, obey the orders of law enforcement
 

debate_junkie

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galenrox said:
basically. Once I was sitting in a van, ACTUALLY not doing anything illegal, or in possension of anything illegal, a lot of the time I was just walking, and once I just stopped for a second outside Taco Bell to pick up my buddy. So yes, I was just there innocently when I've been ****ed with. And I was also nothing but polite and accomodating.

I'm sure we've all had bad experiences with cops (I did growing up, only because my mom knew em all, and they watched us like hawks) But... to say they're ALL bad, etc because of few bad experiences..

And by the way, being a punk rock kid, as you call yourself, didn't you realize that you automatically put a red bullseye on you? Fear is what drives humanity to do MOST of the discrimination they do. Now having said that, live by my motto..."You laugh because I'm different. I laugh because you're all the same". But don't walk into a walmart looking like a Living Dead Doll, and ask for bloodstain remover. The clerk might suffer a heart attack. :)
 

Stinger

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galenrox said:
I beg to ****ing differ! I have never been anything but extremely accomidating and polite to police officers, and you know what that's gotten me? I had my car searched entirely in the middle of downtown, because the cop claimed he found a "green leafy substance" which was ****ing lettuce, and it's gotten me forced to stand in below 0 temperatures without a coat for almost an hour, it's gotten my friends beaten and hassled, the "yes officer, no officer" isn't too much of a defense.

I don't thinf ****ing YES OFFICER will work very well.
 
H

HTColeman

I don't believe in saying Yes Officer, No Officer, but I sure as hell do. Being of a minority, I am scared to death of getting the "bad cop"

"Yes Mr. Officer, sir? Is there a problem?"
 

Calm2Chaos

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galenrox said:
basically. Once I was sitting in a van, ACTUALLY not doing anything illegal, or in possension of anything illegal, a lot of the time I was just walking, and once I just stopped for a second outside Taco Bell to pick up my buddy. So yes, I was just there innocently when I've been ****ed with. And I was also nothing but polite and accomodating.

Then **** em, you get the respect you give. If there not going to give it they can't expect to get it back
 

The American

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galenrox said:
yeah, I'm waiting till I know more details. I hate cops though.
...and who are you going to call when you get robbed, attacked or whatever?... the fire brigade?
 

The American

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Simon W. Moon said:
In the US, the rules as I understand them are that the use of deadly force requires that there be threat. In ordinary circumstances, you can't shoot a fleeing felon and certainly not on that has been tackled.
As to the dead guy in London, one of the eyewitness accounts says "...they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him. "
Since I assume the rules as to the use of deadly force to be similar in the UK as they are here, I expect that the officers had reason to belive that lives were in danger. This may not be the case, yet without any evidence to think otherwise, I'll assume that the cops were acting professionally. All that the fella would have to do to detonate a bomb would be to move his thumb squeezing a trigger. So prob'ly the cops thought that there was cause for thoroughly disabling the suspect.

However, the bar for such treatment of a suspect should be high.
...good post! Here you have the answer! What an idiot will wear a "coat" in the middle of summer, at a train station 2 days after the last attacks? He`ll be link to something... take my word for that!
 

Simon W. Moon

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"...apparently the victim of a lamentable mistake."

I think lamentable is somewhat of an understatement. Clearly something has to be changed to prevent a recurrence of lamentable mistakes.

As dumb and whatever else the fellow's dress and behavior was, in and of themselves, they don't justify homicide. I think that the Brits'll be able to figure out something to keep this sort of thing from happenning again.
 

Simon W. Moon

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The American said:
He`ll be link to something... take my word for that!
Guess not.

Shot man not connected to bombing
A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was a Brazilian electrician unconnected to the incidents.
Scotland Yard said Mr Menezes, who lived in Brixton, south London, was completely unconnected to the bomb attacks...

Perhaps he was just running from some guys with guns. They were plain clothes cops after all.

A sad story even sadder.
 

Naughty Nurse

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This is truly shocking, and worse, the powers-that-be here have already said that nothing will change and that it is likely that more innocent people will die like this.


What is happening to this world? In the name of "war on terror" we have people being locked away without any publicly available evidence against them. We've had tens of thousands of innocent people in Iraq killed in order to make the world a "safer place" (that was certainly one of Phoney Blur's fake reasons for invading Iraq - how much safer aren't we now?). And all of this is not decreasing terrorism - it is encouraging and feeding it.

No, I don't know what the answer is - but the current "solution" is clearly not working, and it is making the world a more dangerous place for all of us.

I'm not in a position to comment on the position of you President, but I am in a position to say that if there was any justice in this world Phoney Blur would be locked up and we would throw away the key.

:rantoff:
 

point

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Naughty Nurse said:
No, I don't know what the answer is - but the current "solution" is clearly not working, and it is making the world a more dangerous place for all of us.

I'm not in a position to comment on the position of you President, but I am in a position to say that if there was any justice in this world Phoney Blur would be locked up and we would throw away the key.

:rantoff:
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

That "war on terror" is giving terror a boost instead of eliminating it.
 
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