Making It Bad For 2008

[cnredd]

This is what the article said he was wanted for:

"He [OBL] and his associates were already being sought by the US on charges of international terrorism, including in connection with the 1998 bombing of American embassies in Africa and last year's attack on the USS Cole in Yemen."

Nary a mention of 93 in there. Everything I've read says that Yousef was a lone terrorist.

Start reading more...this is from your source(Wikipedia)...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center#1993_terrorist_attack

United States authorities say Yousef was an Al-Qaeda (Arabic: القاعده ) terrorist and agent.

Lone terrorist?!?!?...Try again...ALSO per your source...

Six Islamist extremist conspirators were convicted of the crime in 1997 and 1998 and given prison sentences of 240 years each.

THIRDLY...May I point out my earlier contention that the plan didn't work?...Once again, through your source...

According to a presiding judge, the conspirators chief aim at the time of the attack was to de-stabilize the north tower and send it crashing into the south tower, toppling both landmarks.

It didn't work, so Clinton gets a pass...:roll:

 

[Navy Pride]

"In 1997, Osama bin Laden said during an interview that he did not know Yousef. Yousef's uncle Khalid Shaikh Mohammed allegedly took part in launching the September 11 Terrorist Attacks."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing

And let me guess, you believe Bin Laden right?

 

[Kelzie]

And let me guess, you believe Bin Laden right?

I'm sure he would love to claim credit.

 

[Kelzie]

Start reading more...this is from your source(Wikipedia)...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center#1993_terrorist_attack

United States authorities say Yousef was an Al-Qaeda (Arabic: القاعده ) terrorist and agent.

Lone terrorist?!?!?...Try again...ALSO per your source...

Six Islamist extremist conspirators were convicted of the crime in 1997 and 1998 and given prison sentences of 240 years each.

THIRDLY...May I point out my earlier contention that the plan didn't work?...Once again, through your source...

According to a presiding judge, the conspirators chief aim at the time of the attack was to de-stabilize the north tower and send it crashing into the south tower, toppling both landmarks.

It didn't work, so Clinton gets a pass...:roll:

I don't know where that quote was from, but I couldn't find it on that site.

And by lone, I meant not a member of any terrorist group.

I know what the plan was. It falied. I still don't see what your point is. That Clinton would have been in trouble if it hadn't? Bush would have had a lot less grief if 9/11 failed. But it didn't. Again, what's your point? That's the game we like to call life. If you do something wrong and relatively little bad happens, you don't get in trouble. If you do something wrong and the **** hits the fans, you do.

 

[cnredd]

I don't know where that quote was from, but I couldn't find it on that site.

I said the same SOURCE(Wikipedia)...not necessarily the same page...I posted the link in that post...here it is again...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center

And by lone, I meant not a member of any terrorist group.

And yet Georgetown University believes otherwise...

Ramsey Yousef, World Trade Center and Manila Air bombings. Ramsey Yousef was part of the international terrorist group responsible for bombing the World Trade Center in 1993 and a Manila Air airliner in late 1995. When his laptop computer was seized in Manila, the FBI found that some of the files were encrypted. These files, which were successfully decrypted, contained information pertaining to further plans to blow up eleven U.S.-owned commercial airliners in the Far East [Freeh 97]. While useful to the investigation, much of the information was also available in unencrypted documents. Also, because Yousef and others were arrested, decryption was not essential to averting the scheduled catastrophes.

http://www.cosc.georgetown.edu/~denning/crypto/cases.html

If you're attempting to blow up 11 airplanes...I'm PRETTY SURE you'd need a "terrorist group"...:roll:

I know what the plan was. It falied. I still don't see what your point is. That Clinton would have been in trouble if it hadn't? Bush would have had a lot less grief if 9/11 failed. But it didn't. Again, what's your point? That's the game we like to call life. If you do something wrong and relatively little bad happens, you don't get in trouble. If you do something wrong and the **** hits the fans, you do.

The difference between killing a few people and killing a few thousand just means that if you ONLY killed a few people, even though you're INTENTION was to kill as many as 100,000, you're off the hook...great...:roll:

 

[Kelzie]

I said the same SOURCE(Wikipedia)...not necessarily the same page...I posted the link in that post...here it is again...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center

And yet Georgetown University believes otherwise...

Ramsey Yousef, World Trade Center and Manila Air bombings. Ramsey Yousef was part of the international terrorist group responsible for bombing the World Trade Center in 1993 and a Manila Air airliner in late 1995. When his laptop computer was seized in Manila, the FBI found that some of the files were encrypted. These files, which were successfully decrypted, contained information pertaining to further plans to blow up eleven U.S.-owned commercial airliners in the Far East [Freeh 97]. While useful to the investigation, much of the information was also available in unencrypted documents. Also, because Yousef and others were arrested, decryption was not essential to averting the scheduled catastrophes.

http://www.cosc.georgetown.edu/~denning/crypto/cases.html

If you're attempting to blow up 11 airplanes...I'm PRETTY SURE you'd need a "terrorist group"...:roll:

The difference between killing a few people and killing a few thousand just means that if you ONLY killed a few people, even though you're INTENTION was to kill as many as 100,000, you're off the hook...great...:roll:

I know what you meant. I could not find the quote on that page.

And Georgetown fails to mention what group it was.

Clinton...didn't...kill anyone. What are you talking about?

 

[cnredd]

I know what you meant. I could not find the quote on that page.

That's why I posted the link again...:2wave:

And Georgetown fails to mention what group it was.

I didn't know they were REQUIRED to have names...:roll:

Clinton...didn't...kill anyone. What are you talking about?

This was your sentence that I was referring to...

If you do something wrong and relatively little bad happens, you don't get in trouble.

A terrorist attack...6 Americans die...Over a thousand injured...right in the heart of America's largest city...Tied to Osama Bin Laden...

You have the same conscious as Clinton...That's only "relatively a little bad", so Osama "didn't get in trouble"...:sigh:

 

[Kelzie]

That's why I posted the link again...:2wave:

Dude I'm telling you. It's not on there. I even searched the document.

I didn't know they were REQUIRED to have names...:roll:

They are.

This was your sentence that I was referring to...

If you do something wrong and relatively little bad happens, you don't get in trouble.

A terrorist attack...6 Americans die...Over a thousand injured...right in the heart of America's largest city...Tied to Osama Bin Laden...

You have the same conscious as Clinton...That's only "relatively a little bad", so Osama "didn't get in trouble"...:sigh:

There was no connection. I just read like three biographies on the guy cause of this dumb ass discussion, and besides learning way more than I ever wanted to know about him, I also know he had no ties to OBL. He got most of his funding from Saudia Arabia. You know, the country that OBL has sworn to bring down?

Let me give you a little example. You were late turning in a report for your job. Your boss had to report it to his boss, but his plane out was cancelled, so you were able to give it to him the next day. You got a slap on the wrist, but no harm no faul.

Different scenario, same problem. Not only was his plane not cancelled, he didn't realize he didn't have your report until he was in front of his superiors. He got dressed down, came back and fired your ass.

See? Same crime, different results=different punishments. Is it fair? Probably not. Is that life? You betcha.

 

[cnredd]

Dude I'm telling you. It's not on there. I even searched the document.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center

when you get there...click 3 1993 terrorist attack under "Contents"...

On February 26, 1993 at 12:17 PM, a Ryder truck filled with 1,500 pounds (682 kilograms) of explosives was planted by terrorists and detonated in the underground garage of the north tower, opening a 30m hole through 4 sublevels of concrete. Six people were killed and over a thousand injured.

Six Islamist extremist conspirators were convicted of the crime in 1997 and 1998 and given prison sentences of 240 years each. According to a presiding judge, the conspirators chief aim at the time of the attack was to de-stabilize the north tower and send it crashing into the south tower, toppling both landmarks.

To commemorate the bombing of the tower, a reflecting pool was installed with the names of those who had been killed in the blast. Following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, relief workers found a single fractured piece of this fountain; to date it is the only remaining part of the 1993 memorial that survived the collapse of the towers.

They are.

They did have a name originally, but they found out later that Van Halen was taken, so they didn't use any...

There was no connection. I just read like three biographies on the guy cause of this dumb ass discussion, and besides learning way more than I ever wanted to know about him, I also know he had no ties to OBL. He got most of his funding from Saudia Arabia. You know, the country that OBL has sworn to bring down?

OBL/Saudi Arabia = Tim McVeigh/USA...I don't know how McVeigh received money, but I'm guessing it was through American hands somehow...:roll:

Just because he wanted to destroy them doesn't mean much...Where did OBL get most of his funding?!?!?...You guessed it...Saudi Arabia...

Let me give you a little example. You were late turning in a report for your job. Your boss had to report it to his boss, but his plane out was cancelled, so you were able to give it to him the next day. You got a slap on the wrist, but no harm no faul.

Different scenario, same problem. Not only was his plane not cancelled, he didn't realize he didn't have your report until he was in front of his superiors. He got dressed down, came back and fired your ass.

See? Same crime, different results=different punishments. Is it fair? Probably not. Is that life? You betcha.

If you want to equate that with a terrorist attack that killed 6 and injured thousands, I guess I can't stop you...

 

[Kelzie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center

when you get there...click 3 1993 terrorist attack under "Contents"...

On February 26, 1993 at 12:17 PM, a Ryder truck filled with 1,500 pounds (682 kilograms) of explosives was planted by terrorists and detonated in the underground garage of the north tower, opening a 30m hole through 4 sublevels of concrete. Six people were killed and over a thousand injured.

Six Islamist extremist conspirators were convicted of the crime in 1997 and 1998 and given prison sentences of 240 years each. According to a presiding judge, the conspirators chief aim at the time of the attack was to de-stabilize the north tower and send it crashing into the south tower, toppling both landmarks.

To commemorate the bombing of the tower, a reflecting pool was installed with the names of those who had been killed in the blast. Following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, relief workers found a single fractured piece of this fountain; to date it is the only remaining part of the 1993 memorial that survived the collapse of the towers.

That's not the quote you had. And that doesn't make any mention of al qaeda.

They did have a name originally, but they found out later that Van Halen was taken, so they didn't use any...

I can see why they wouldn't have chosen another one. I mean, really. What's better than Van Halen?

OBL/Saudi Arabia = Tim McVeigh/USA...I don't know how McVeigh received money, but I'm guessing it was through American hands somehow...:roll:

Did Timmy need much funding? Was he even part of a group?

Just because he wanted to destroy them doesn't mean much...Where did OBL get most of his funding?!?!?...You guessed it...Saudi Arabia...

Are you sure? Lot of people here say it was from Saddam...maybe you should go ask them?

If you want to equate that with a terrorist attack that killed 6 and injured thousands, I guess I can't stop you...

It was a good analogy. Don't be a sore loser.:lol:

 

[cnredd]

That's not the quote you had. And that doesn't make any mention of al qaeda.

You're right...I "mis-linked"...:3oops:

Here it is...

United States authorities say Yousef was an Al-Qaeda (Arabic: القاعده ) terrorist and agent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef

Also...As per your source from Post #40...

A Kuwaiti man named Ramzi Yousef began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Yousef's uncle Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, considered "the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks", gave him advice and tips over the phone, and funded him with a US$660 wire transfer.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=133403&postcount=40

I hope I don't need to tell you who Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is...

Did you also just throw out this source?...

According to the US, Bin Laden was involved in at least three major attacks - the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1996 killing of 19 US soldiers in Saudi Arabia, and the 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/155236.stm

I can see why they wouldn't have chosen another one. I mean, really. What's better than Van Halen?

If I ever start a band...or a terrorist group...It will be called either "Renaissance Hairpie" or "Ape **** Riot"...

Did Timmy need much funding? Was he even part of a group?

He was in it with Tery Nichols...Two people...Remember...Timbuk3 was also a group consisting of just 2 people...

Are you sure? Lot of people here say it was from Saddam...maybe you should go ask them?

I assuming sarcasm...but if you're serious, then "No"...I've seen no indication that OBL received funds from Saddam...

It was a good analogy. Don't be a sore loser.:lol:

I'm always sore...never a loser...

 

[Calm2Chaos]

OK...you are not much younger than me....perhaps you remember the Climate of the time in question. We were in diplomatic mode as a country (read peace), and an all out war was not in the cards. Hell,the Republicans would have ***** a gold Brick has Slick Willy so much as Mentioned the word War. At the time, there were checks and balances in this country that made invasion, let alone a full blown declaration of war virtually impossible without someone hitting the U.S. damn hard. I dont suppose you remember how hard it was to go into Bosnia....and the crap thrown at Clinton for that one....do you?

You are old enough to remember this stuff.....I will simply have to guess at why you dont.

I remember it. I also remember multiple attacks on us intrests and there military. And I remember soldiers and sailors dying without so much as a finger being lifted. He never made a case for retaliating against those that attacked us. Secondly I think this lack of retaliation or show of anytime of balls. Not only initiated further attacks but embolden those that were planning them with more confidence. Confidence that they could not only succeed, but that they could get away with it.

 

[tecoyah]

I remember it. I also remember multiple attacks on us intrests and there military. And I remember soldiers and sailors dying without so much as a finger being lifted. He never made a case for retaliating against those that attacked us. Secondly I think this lack of retaliation or show of anytime of balls. Not only initiated further attacks but embolden those that were planning them with more confidence. Confidence that they could not only succeed, but that they could get away with it.

You may indeed be correct in your belief....and in fact it is likely. Speculation is all we have to go on at this point, as these things are based in history. In my opinion there was not much that COULD be done at the time, and in fact I distinctly remember an uproar over the use of the very limited retribution Clinton did manage. Perhaps an all out War on Terror could have prevented the nightmare we deal with now....perhaps not. As we simply cannot know, I have decided to live in the now, and worry about what we actually Can do.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You may indeed be correct in your belief....and in fact it is likely. Speculation is all we have to go on at this point, as these things are based in history. In my opinion there was not much that COULD be done at the time, and in fact I distinctly remember an uproar over the use of the very limited retribution Clinton did manage. Perhaps an all out War on Terror could have prevented the nightmare we deal with now....perhaps not. As we simply cannot know, I have decided to live in the now, and worry about what we actually Can do.

And I agree with you. The problem you have is that now it is the democrats open season on the POTUS. And we are back to giving confidence and emboldening those that are trying to attack us. You don't think our own officials calling the President a terorrist or a Nazi isn't music to there ears. That smaked ass shehan defending terrorist calling them freedom fighters? We need to make up our minds on what we want to do. Either decision is going to be expensive and cost lives and money.

 

[tecoyah]

And I agree with you. The problem you have is that now it is the democrats open season on the POTUS. And we are back to giving confidence and emboldening those that are trying to attack us. You don't think our own officials calling the President a terorrist or a Nazi isn't music to there ears. That smaked ass shehan defending terrorist calling them freedom fighters? We need to make up our minds on what we want to do. Either decision is going to be expensive and cost lives and money.

One can only hope....at this point that some middle of the road concensus is met within government in this country. As it is we are virtually hogtied by partisan bickering, and political posturing. For this reason (primarily) I refuse to be associated with either of the "Sides" people want you to become. I just cant see the current approach of Blowing everyone up (yes, oversimplified but accurate), meeting the goals those in power have set for themselves.
While I am more than happy to be critical of Mr. Clinton, and the errors he made, I dont see much effort going into doing the same for the guy that actually makes the descisions now, and sets the policy/standards, that will improve the situation we are in. My primary issue at this point is the seeming inability of many, who support the President, to address what I percieve to be critical errors in his thinking, and could very well put the country I love at incredible risk.
In some ways the Republican Party has forced many Americans into a nasty situation....by failing to keep the checks and balances in place that prevent power from corrupting the Body we call an administration. when the voice of the people is ignored....One is forced to yell to be heard, and it seems a piece of the population is finding its voice.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

One can only hope....at this point that some middle of the road concensus is met within government in this country. As it is we are virtually hogtied by partisan bickering, and political posturing. For this reason (primarily) I refuse to be associated with either of the "Sides" people want you to become. I just cant see the current approach of Blowing everyone up (yes, oversimplified but accurate), meeting the goals those in power have set for themselves.
While I am more than happy to be critical of Mr. Clinton, and the errors he made, I dont see much effort going into doing the same for the guy that actually makes the descisions now, and sets the policy/standards, that will improve the situation we are in. My primary issue at this point is the seeming inability of many, who support the President, to address what I percieve to be critical errors in his thinking, and could very well put the country I love at incredible risk.
In some ways the Republican Party has forced many Americans into a nasty situation....by failing to keep the checks and balances in place that prevent power from corrupting the Body we call an administration. when the voice of the people is ignored....One is forced to yell to be heard, and it seems a piece of the population is finding its voice.

You fight them there or you fight them here. But either way... your going to fight them. We refuse to safegaurd our own country, so we better go after them someplace else. Right now we are an open target with zero real security. Given time, we may very well pay dearly for this.