Macron’s speech about nationalism on armistice day

[Fletch]

President Trump created this brohaha with his own words. Regardless of his intentions, using the word “Nationalism”was inimical. “Patriotism” could have served the same purpose and he could even used the phrase “America First” if that was the point he was trying to make.

Imho

There is no brohaha though. Its just the left finding another reason to run around with their hair on fire.

 

[ttwtt78640]

But this isnt Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. This is America. The question is in what way would American nationalism be a bad thing?

And I might add, that nationalism was the least of their problems. Totalitarianism was their flaw

Their flaw was in thinking that they should (and therefore could) rule the world.

 

[ttwtt78640]

But Hitler and Stalin were both imperialists. Just because the Nazi party name starts with "National" and Stalin ruled a "communist" nation means little, since both leader's led SOCIALIST nations and both had the goal of world conquest under their rule.

Yep, which is what globalism is all about - having a single ruler (ruling body?) over everyone.

 

[jnug]

Yep, which is what globalism is all about - having a single ruler (ruling body?) over everyone.

What??? You can't possibly be serious!

 

[Fletch]

Their flaw was in thinking that they should (and therefore could) rule the world.

No, their flaw was in thinking they should rule, period. No one suffered more under Soviet rule than those under its thumb. That they had global ambitions was secondary to their belief in totalitarianism.

 

[Sweden]

I don't know where the idea that nationalism is about expanding power and control over all other nations comes from. That is IMPERIALISM.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imperialism

While Nationalism:

https://www.wordnik.com/words/nationalism


I don't see any reference to expanding power and control over (all) other nations in that definition...do you? :unsure13:

Indeed. Nationalism is certainly not about 'expansion'. It is about creating states whose borders conform, near enough, withe the nation. for example France being the country of the French - not the Spanish, Dutch, Italians etc as well. For example Napoleon who brought death and destruction on most of Europe was a supreme Internationalist.

All the various forms of democracy were invented in nation states. A key fact to rub in the faces of those who imagine that nationalism must always be term of opprobium.

 

[jnug]

ex·alt
[ig- zawlt]

VERB (USED WITH OBJECT)
1.
to raise in rank, honor, power, character, quality, etc.; elevate: He was exalted to the position of president.
2.
to praise; extol: to exalt someone to the skies.
3.
to stimulate, as the imagination: The lyrics of Shakespeare exalted the audience.
4.
to intensify, as a color: complementary colors exalt each other.
5.
Obsolete. to elate, as with pride or joy.

OK, I got the dictionary out, so whats your problem?

Here below is the Merriam-Webster definition. Frankly it's the only decent English dictionary on the planet. In bold see issues with exalting within a geopolitical context:
Definition of exalt
transitive verb
1 : to raise in rank, power, or character
2 : to elevate by praise or in estimation : GLORIFY
3 obsolete : ELATE
4 : to raise high : ELEVATE
5 : to enhance the activity of : INTENSIFY
rousing and exalting the imagination
— George Eliot

Note George Eliot's well turned phrase that essentially describes the practical consequences of "exalting" within a geopolitical context.

 

[jnug]

Indeed. Nationalism is certainly not about 'expansion'. It is about creating states whose borders conform, near enough, withe the nation. for example France being the country of the French - not the Spanish, Dutch, Italians etc as well. For example Napoleon who brought death and destruction on most of Europe was a supreme Internationalist.

All the various forms of democracy were invented in nation states. A key fact to rub in the faces of those who imagine that nationalism must always be term of opprobium.

Tell that to the Czech's before WW2.

 

[Fletch]

Here below is the Merriam-Webster definition. Frankly it's the only decent English dictionary on the planet. In bold see issues with exalting within a geopolitical context:
Definition of exalt
transitive verb
1 : to raise in rank, power, or character
2 : to elevate by praise or in estimation : GLORIFY
3 obsolete : ELATE
4 : to raise high : ELEVATE
5 : to enhance the activity of : INTENSIFY
rousing and exalting the imagination
— George Eliot

Note George Eliot's well turned phrase that essentially describes the practical consequences of "exalting" within a geopolitical context.

You are creating issues where none exist. There is nothing wrong with exalting, glorifying or elevating the US

 

[jnug]

You are creating issues where none exist. There is nothing wrong with exalting, glorifying or elevating the US

Ah-huh

 

[ataraxia]

You are creating issues where none exist. There is nothing wrong with exalting, glorifying or elevating the US

Not at the expense of losing your very sense of humanity. That is, it at least should be, more exalted.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

”Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism," he said through a translator. "Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism. By saying our interests first, who cares about the others, we erase what a nation holds dearest, what gives it life, what makes it great and what is essential: its moral values."
"I know there are old demons which are coming back to the surface. They are ready to wreak chaos and death," he said. "History sometimes threatens to take its sinister course once again."
-Emmanuel Macron

Rotten shame, that he too has to die of skull cancer, and y'all still telling yourselves it's legit.
#AvengeMccain

Is the world heading down the same path and seeing the same sentiments and dark passions which led to such horrors in the last century? Certainly the rhetoric and actions of many world leaders and people we are seeing again today are eerily reminiscent. Our own president is now spearheading this new world movement.

Then take back the voting machines. They were rigged from they were first plugged in in 2000. And now commandeered by the enemy.

God help us all.

God ain't watching. Ain't nobody here but us.

 

[Sweden]

Tell that to the Czech's before WW2.

What's your point? Czechoslovakia was not a nation state as it included a lot of non-Czechs - there were very large minorities of Slovaks, Germans, Hungarians an others. If it had been populated entirely by Czechs its history would have been different.

 

[ataraxia]

What's your point? Czechoslovakia was not a nation state as it included a lot of non-Czechs - there were very large minorities of Slovaks, Germans, Hungarians an others. If it had been populated entirely by Czechs its history would have been different.

The idea of nationalism and nation-srates has only been around since the late 19th century. It is a very artificial construct. The idea that people cannot get along unless they speak the exact same language or dialect, have the exact same religion, have the same skin color, etc... to get along, is ridiculous. There have been a lot of wars fought between people who have all those things in common, and they still found lots of other things to fight over. And conversely, there have been many nations, empires, and civilizations built out of many different religions, Ethnicities, and languages. People just need to learn basic social skills. There is no substitute.