Le Marteau
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2010
- Messages
- 598
- Reaction score
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- Location
- London, England and Dijon, France
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Liberal
I accidentally voted loyalty by my definition. By your definition I would vote honor.
Honor does not mean doing the right thing no matter what as what is right is subjective to your own standards of honor. What you're doing might be right but it won't be honorable. Example, I find it honorable to back one's friends in all reasonable matters. Doing other than that seems to me to be highly dishonorable. I believe standing by one's friends through thick and thin is honorable yet I would report my best friends to police officers if it involved an extreme circumstance. Let's say an extreme circumstance presents itself and I see a need to report my best friend to the police. Am I behaving honorably? No. But I am doing what is considering to be right by society. So what is right? Is it what society thinks is right? Or is it what we ourselves have decreed through our experiences to be right? Loyalty in turn is not supporting those you love no matter what. I'm loyal to my wife. Yet if I found out she was hiding bodies in our garage I'd just as easily report her to the police. This is because I would find her actions to be not only wrong but dishonorable.
En tout cas, neither is better than the other. A person that seeks to live an honorable life must question just how far their loyalties go. Is your loyalty blind? Or does it have boundaries which can be violated? Does your honor mean more to you than what is right or wrong? The answer is balance. Balance.
spud_meister
Loyalty is honourable.
Honor does not mean doing the right thing no matter what as what is right is subjective to your own standards of honor. What you're doing might be right but it won't be honorable. Example, I find it honorable to back one's friends in all reasonable matters. Doing other than that seems to me to be highly dishonorable. I believe standing by one's friends through thick and thin is honorable yet I would report my best friends to police officers if it involved an extreme circumstance. Let's say an extreme circumstance presents itself and I see a need to report my best friend to the police. Am I behaving honorably? No. But I am doing what is considering to be right by society. So what is right? Is it what society thinks is right? Or is it what we ourselves have decreed through our experiences to be right? Loyalty in turn is not supporting those you love no matter what. I'm loyal to my wife. Yet if I found out she was hiding bodies in our garage I'd just as easily report her to the police. This is because I would find her actions to be not only wrong but dishonorable.
En tout cas, neither is better than the other. A person that seeks to live an honorable life must question just how far their loyalties go. Is your loyalty blind? Or does it have boundaries which can be violated? Does your honor mean more to you than what is right or wrong? The answer is balance. Balance.
So basically, the poll is flawed.
Hey all,
A very simple question, but a very difficult answer, I find.
There's no long backstory, just, simply, in your eyes, which is better, loyalty, or honour?
Honour is doing the right thing, no matter what.
Loyalty is supporting those you love, no matter what.
In a perfect world, one can be honourable and also loyal. But many times, this is not the case. So, which is the greater good, to you?
The definitions of Honor and Loyalty in the OP are fictional definitions for these words. They don't mean those things.
The definition provided for Loyalty resembles a real definition but is not quite accurate, but the definition provided for "honor" doesn't even remotely resemble any actual definition for the word.
Using the real definitions of these words, it become impossible to answer the question because they are intertwined concepts.
I have always seen the classic definition of honor to be more about pride than anything else. As in "you have insulted my honor sir, pistols at dawn?"
Hrrm....
honor |ˈänər| ( Brit. honour)
noun
1 high respect; esteem : his portrait hangs in the place of honor.
• [in sing. ] a person or thing that brings credit : you are an honor to our profession.
• adherence to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct : I must as a matter of honor avoid any taint of dishonesty.
loyalty |ˈloiəltē|
noun ( pl. -ties)
the quality of being loyal to someone or something : her loyalty to her husband of 34 years.
• (often loyalties) a strong feeling of support or allegiance : fights with in-laws are distressing because they cause divided loyalties.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: from French, via Old French loial from Latin legalis (see legal ).
...hrrmmm
Hey all,
I understand that we all have differing ideas of what "honour" and "loyalty" mean and represent -- so, I suppose I should say, given those definitions, which do you choose? Or, even better, of those two concepts (because honour and loyalty are really just meaningless titles), which do you choose?
Furthermore, I agree, they can often overlap. But when the overlap ends, which do you choose?
To answer one post in specific, I think that there are, of course, situations in which loyalty can be good for the person you're loyal to, and bad for the person you're loyal to. I don't think anyone here is so blind as to think these terms are absolutes. But the example that one person posted, about a friend who needed a drug intervention -- come on. That's an easy one. That's too every-day, that's too forced. I'm talking about the rarity situations where you're forced to choose between the two terms -- a brother kills a man, and you agree that it was a just action, but it was also in cold blood, do you help him? Such situations, I find, are much harder to deal with.
However, to use another example, I admit that, were I to find bodies in our garage, I wouldn't report it to the police -- I'd help my wife get rid of them. But, also, if she were a drug addict, I'd not hesitate in getting her help, as opposed to "being loyal" and feeding her addiction. It's a gray line, of course, and it's blurry -- and perhaps it's not even a straight line. But I'm merely asking, in those situations that are really on the line, on the fence -- which concept, which trait, do you 'believe in' more?
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