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Louisiana Lawmaker Forced to Clarify There Was No ‘Good’ in Slavery

Alizia Tyler said:
So, to mention, to conceive, to hold in my awareness that good comes from bad -- from time-to-time -- is not an unethical posture.
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If that was your purpose then the amount of effort you'd be putting into explaining how American slavery wasn't that bad would be irrelevant, since your focus would be on post-slavery developments. But that is clearly where you're pouring the main effort of your argument, and your attempts at self-righteous duties as a scholar are just an excuse to try to diminish the evils of slavery by arguing that American slavery, out of all the practices of slavery throughout world history, wasn't that bad.

It's the equivalent of if you had gone back in time and told an English family that had just had their house bombed by German bombers "Don't fret! In a few years your Royal Air Force will be burning Hamburg to cinders! It will be even more destructive than this!" And then staring blankly at them with a smile on your face as if that should cheer them up or remove the pain of their home now being a pile of rubble.

You can sit here and pretend that all you're doing is trying to "explain history" if that's what you need to tell yourself, but the facade is pretty thin.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
If that was your purpose then the amount of effort you'd be putting into explaining how American slavery wasn't that bad would be irrelevant
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My purpose has been clearly defined since my first post #7. Your various interpretations and insinuations do'nt have any effect at all on what I understand of what I do.

What you are not taking into account -- naturally -- is that in this thread irrational zealots continually read-in to what I say what they say I say. They prolong and extend what should be a short exchange resolved 10 pages back. I stick with it because all of this fascinates me. How it is that people dupe themselves and dupe others in these group displays and rehearsals.
It's the equivalent of if you had gone back in time and told an English family that had just had their house bombed by German bombers "Don't fret! In a few years your Royal Air Force will be burning Hamburg to cinders! It will be even more destructive than this!" And then staring blankly at them with a smile on your face as if that should cheer them up or remove the pain of their home now being a pile of rubble.
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If I discuss, as I have, the Roman conquest of Northern Europe would you send up the same corresponding argument as you are here? I have a detachment, evidently, that you cannot manage. But I can manage it. And I see the importance in standing by every point that I have made. And what is more this is extremely enjoyable to me and I learn a great deal.

My larger interest is in getting to the bottom of the mad zealotry that is raging through the body-politic of America. Whether you or anyone else understands that or not is of zero concern to me.

Finally, your projections lead you to make such statements as:
You can sit here and pretend that all you're doing is trying to "explain history" if that's what you need to tell yourself, but the facade is pretty thin.
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I explain, in crystal-clear prose exactly what I am doing and why and you simply will not hear it. You have set your will not to hear and to deliberately mis-hear.

This to me borders on the incredible as in I have a hard time believing what I see.
 
Master Debator said:
You mean people using specious reasoning to do what they wanted to do all along? Oh wow. What a revelation. Like when Europeans just had to bring civilization to the savages by enslaving them? Or how the natives kept "violating" treaties and thus America needed to confiscate more of their land to protect itself? Or how the South knew the election of Lincoln meant the end of their way of life so they just had to secede? Yea people tell stories to justify doing things they wanted to from the start. That's a human trait as old as language I'm guessing.
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You are getting closer Mr Fight The Power! Good work! You are still dealing in *tendentious reductions* but I think you are making a bit of progress. Hats off!

But in this case the peculiar trope you work with -- it animates all that you say and do -- is to continue a work of destruction against all that you feel earnsed it, as in some sort of retributional karma. Pointing out the degree to which the animus that animates you also animates an entire social movement is part of by objective.

Any of this getting clearer?
 
Alizia Tyler said:
My purpose has been clearly defined since my first post #7.
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You wrote a gigantic word salad where you said a lot of words but mean very little.

Alizia Tyler said:
If I discuss, as I have, the Roman conquest of Northern Europe would you send up the same corresponding argument as you are here?
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What are you trying to argue about the Roman conquest of northern Europe? Or is this just a pointless distraction?

Alizia Tyler said:
I have a detachment, evidently, that you cannot manage.
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Yes, I cannot detach myself from reality as you can. That's not really a plus in your favor, but okay.

Alizia Tyler said:
I explain, in crystal-clear prose exactly what I am doing and why and you simply will not hear it. You have set your will not to hear and to deliberately mis-hear.

This to me borders on the incredible as in I have a hard time believing what I see.
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What is really happening here is you're trying to present yourself as somehow above what you consider meaningless discourse, but in reality all you do is reveal how completely detached and inane your arguments are. The fact that you spent 30 minutes rewriting what you say to make it appear more intelligent does not make the stupidity behind your arguments any less stupid.

There's something to be said about the value of brevity. I suggest you learn it.
 
TheParser said:
Slavery was terrible because the slaves had no rights and could be brutalized at any second.

But slaves were given housing, food, clothes, rudimentary health care, and some masters may have allowed rudimentary education.
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Livestock is usually well cared for.

Its an investment after all.

Humans aren't horses, though.
 
AmNat said:
I guess not starving to death (and ~30% of the slaves did after being freed) wasn't a good thing?
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Most domestic animals starve in the wild. No skills.

Are you trying to imply they would have starved back home in africa had they never been taken from there.

A bunch died on the ships on the way here too. Was it a "good" thing for those who didn't?
 
Alizia Tyler said:
This points to the potential of bias, but it does not either indicate, nor prove, that there is no truth in the fact that some slaves respected their masters (as they were then called). It is a partial statement of truth though: certainly some former slaves said what their interviewers wanted to hear. But certainly some of them 'told the truth and can be relied on. This sort of statement though implies that nothing can be relied on. It 'problematizes' even the possibility of arriving at reasonably true perspective.
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Selective breeding for compliance and docility will do that to any species pretty quickly.

Check out the fur fox studies. Got docile in a few generations, but became multicolored like dogs are so were worthless. A second experiment for aggression yielded crazed animals that had to be put down after only a couple.of generations.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
You are getting closer Mr Fight The Power! Good work! You are still dealing in *tendentious reductions* but I think you are making a bit of progress. Hats off!

But in this case the peculiar trope you work with -- it animates all that you say and do -- is to continue a work of destruction against all that you feel earnsed it, as in some sort of retributional karma. Pointing out the degree to which the animus that animates you also animates an entire social movement is part of by objective.

Any of this getting clearer?
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😂

You try way to hard.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
What are you trying to argue about the Roman conquest of northern Europe? Or is this just a pointless distraction?
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It is perhaps a pointless distraction for you but there is an interesting point to be taken from the example: our world, the world that made us; our matrix, our civilization, came into existence through a brutal conquest and through events that we condemn in recent history with an absolutist fervor.

But this conquest is what made us us. Out of it we arose.

Similarly, the United States, North and South, but principally North, created the slave trade and benefitted from it. The United States, as they say, was built and established wealth through the institution of slavery and the act of enslavement. It is wrapped up with it. It is inseparable from it. As of course were the Founders and all that they did and said.

And yet out of all of this comes what it is that has given us life, existence and our matrix.

The same paradigm is applicable to the South and to the African-American *experience*. Out of it comes what they are. It is part of what they are.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
It is perhaps a pointless distraction for you but there is an interesting point to be taken from the example: our world, the world that made us; our matrix, our civilization, came into existence through a brutal conquest and through events that we condemn in recent history with an absolutist fervor.

But this conquest is what made us us. Out of it we arose.

Similarly, the United States, North and South, but principally North, created the slave trade and benefitted from it. The United States, as they say, was built and established wealth through the institution of slavery and the act of enslavement. It is wrapped up with it. It is inseparable from it. As of course were the Founders and all that they did and said.

And yet out of all of this comes what it is that has given us life, existence and our matrix.

The same paradigm is applicable to the South and to the African-American *experience*. Out of it comes what they are. It is part of what they are.
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Oh look, more historical ignorance from you . No, it was not the North driving the slave trade, even during colonial times; that was a southern phenomenon. New England— and the north in general— was not well suited for sort of plantation economy that revolves around slavery. It was the south, from the beginning, who fixated on preserving and defending slavery.

Georgia is the case in point; the colony wasn’t even supposed to have slavery at the start, but the settlers there threw a tantrum because they didn’t want to have to do the grunt work of heavy manual labor. Even the Founding Fathers recognized how incredibly evil slavery was.

Your excuses, as usual, are pathetic.
 
Aunt Antifa said:
There is zero redeeming things about slavery, my dudes.
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SO we have people here today trying to show the good side of slavery unbelievable.
reminds me of a tee shirt a company used to make that showed a Volkswagen bug and said but what about the good thing Hitler did.....
 
Alizia Tyler said:
My purpose has been clearly defined since my first post #7. Your various interpretations and insinuations do'nt have any effect at all on what I understand of what I do.

What you are not taking into account -- naturally -- is that in this thread irrational zealots continually read-in to what I say what they say I say. They prolong and extend what should be a short exchange resolved 10 pages back. I stick with it because all of this fascinates me. How it is that people dupe themselves and dupe others in these group displays and rehearsals.

If I discuss, as I have, the Roman conquest of Northern Europe would you send up the same corresponding argument as you are here? I have a detachment, evidently, that you cannot manage. But I can manage it. And I see the importance in standing by every point that I have made. And what is more this is extremely enjoyable to me and I learn a great deal.

My larger interest is in getting to the bottom of the mad zealotry that is raging through the body-politic of America. Whether you or anyone else understands that or not is of zero concern to me.

Finally, your projections lead you to make such statements as:

I explain, in crystal-clear prose exactly what I am doing and why and you simply will not hear it. You have set your will not to hear and to deliberately mis-hear.

This to me borders on the incredible as in I have a hard time believing what I see.
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These might be the murkiest posts I have ever seen. Digging out the main ideas made my head hurt. Have you considered hiring an editor?
 
j brown's body said:
Digging out the main ideas made my head hurt.
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But you did get the main ideas, yes? I salute you.

You will find, I promise, that if you continue your reading, and expand it, yes your head may hurt but it does get easier.

However, there is nothing difficult at all in what I wrote.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
But you did get the main ideas, yes? I salute you.

You will find, I promise, that if you continue your reading, and expand it, yes your head may hurt but it does get easier.

However, there is nothing difficult at all in what I wrote.
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I was thinking that if you left out the parts about how brilliant you are and how everyone else is should aspire to absorbing your wisdom, your main points would be easier to find. Or maybe they are your main points?
 
j brown's body said:
I was thinking that if you left out the parts about how brilliant you are and how everyone else is should aspire to absorbing your wisdom, your main points would be easier to find. Or maybe they are your main points?
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You are moving the conversation is a silly, time-wasting direction. Your purpose is to do that. I don't wish to go in that direction with you. Talk about and critique the ideas discussed here. You'll get response from me if you do.
 
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Alizia Tyler said:
I did not say 'driving' I said:

And here is a group fo articles that develop these ideas.
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And I pointed out that that is a blatant lie.....which it is. The North was not the one which created the slave trade either.

The Abbeville Institute is a Neo-Confederate organization. It’s like posting a bunch of Pravda articles from 1950 on capitalism and basing an argument about capitalism off of that.

Or, in simpler terms.......not a credible source.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
It is perhaps a pointless distraction for you but there is an interesting point to be taken from the example: our world, the world that made us; our matrix, our civilization, came into existence through a brutal conquest and through events that we condemn in recent history with an absolutist fervor.

But this conquest is what made us us. Out of it we arose.
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You seem to think just because something is true means it is relevant or proves a point.

Alizia Tyler said:
Similarly, the United States, North and South, but principally North, created the slave trade and benefitted from it. The United States, as they say, was built and established wealth through the institution of slavery and the act of enslavement. It is wrapped up with it. It is inseparable from it. As of course were the Founders and all that they did and said.
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Nobody is disputing this. What they are disputing is your insistence there is a positive experience to be gleamed from this.
 
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