Looks like I was right on immunity.

[Paradoxical]

Ask nearly every country other than America. :shrug:

PS: I don't answer douchey questions. I answered you seriously. Try to be worth my time.

What did other countries do that America didn't?

 

[Paradoxical]

That is not how herd immunity works.

It just isn't.

The premise is that when enough are immune there won't be enough virus around to infect those who haven't had it yet

So 50% or 40% or 30% can still catch it and spread it to others, thereby reigniting the virus.

You are wrong. if you were correct, 100% of the population would have to have it because even if 90% had it, there would still be 105 that didn't and based on your analogy, that 10% would be at risk. It don't work that way.

 

[Paradoxical]

What makes you think 50% of NYers had the virus?

Because very few are dying there anymore. They already HAD the highest death rate per million in the entire WORD!

 

[Paradoxical]

Ummm....nowhere has reached herd immunity. If the virus is under decent control its because people there are behaving themselves. NYC took it on the chin so they now behave pretty well of course. You get sucker punched you learn a lesson. Herd immunity is not going to be significant until about 70% of the people get infected, and that will cost well over 600,000 lives-at least.

You didn't bother to read my post or the article. <sigh>

 

[snakestretcher]

There is nothing but unsubstantiated speculation in that article.

 

[snakestretcher]

What did other countries do that America didn't?

How many times do you need to be told? We locked down early, mandated masks and social distancing for a start, while the US sat with thumb firmly up arse, vacillating. That's why every other Western nation else has the thing more or less under control, while the US is number one, the world leader in infections and deaths. You'll catch up eventually after enough have needlessly died.

Why the Pandemic Is So Bad in America - The Atlantic

America's window of opportunity to beat back Covid-19 is closing

 

[Paradoxical]

We locked down early, mandated masks and social distancing for a start, while the US sat with thumb firmly up arse, vacillating. That's why every other Western nation else has the thing more or less under control, while the US is number one, the world leader in infections and deaths. You'll catch up eventually.

We are not a monarchy. We are a collection of 50 states. The president doesn't get to make law OR tell states what to do.

We are also not China, South Korea or some other totalitarian country.

Thank Goodness we aren't England. We left your sorry ass country centuries ago because you guys are stuffy and arrogant. You guys have been pissed ever since because you revel in being controlled.

 

[OlNate]

What did other countries do that America didn't?

I think there's a lot of ways to answer that, too many to go into here. But in general, a lack of leadership played a huge role. Turning the Covid response into a partisan issue didn't help either. I also think there's a cultural element...you don't really see as much of the "free-dumb" crowd in other countries.

A lot of blame goes to Trump for failing to lead, but I don't think all of it belongs there, contrary to what other left leaning folks may say. The number of Americans that failed to take this seriously, who chose to believe a proven and demonstrable liar to their own detriment, they own a ton of the blame. Basically, you guys are a mess, and this virus couldn't have picked a worse time to land on your shores - zero leadership, and millions of you in complete rejection of reality...yeah. Of course you guys have the 4th highest infection rate in the world.

 

[CaughtInThe]

What makes you think 50% of NYers had the virus?

his whole game, these last months, is to convince everyone that 60% of the country (his words) already has/had COVID.



without that nonsense, none of his insane ideas work.

 

[snakestretcher]

We are not a monarchy. We are a collection of 50 states. The president doesn't get to make law OR tell states what to do.

We are also not China, South Korea or some other totalitarian country.

Thank Goodness we aren't England. We left your sorry ass country centuries ago because you guys are stuffy and arrogant. You guys have been pissed ever since because you revel in being controlled.

That response belongs in grade school. Did you never hear of 'leading by example'? That's what leaders do. What has Trump done? Nothing but whine, downplay the severity of the disease, claim it is "under control" and insult or fire those who dared challenge and correct his more absurd assertions. THINK!
Oh, and to add to your education for today South Korea is a democratic republic, same as yours.

 

[chuckiechan]

It is disturbing how large segments of a society will parrot what others say and if that person is "in authority", will use that information as the bible. Many here were parroting some epidemiologist or other as saying that 70-80% of the populace needed to have COVID before immunity would be reached. In a new article, this is being called into question. I absolutely loathe the NY Times, bit since it is the GOTO source for many left wingers here, what better rag to quote for all of the progressives, liberals and independents here. I searched for this only because a poster here derided Dennis Prager for saying that herd immunity may occur at 50% and instead of checking himself, Luce dismissed the contention out of hand because, after all, Dennis Prager, you know is, well.a CONSERVATIVE!! This is what is done with people who want to hold onto false information provided by their tribe. they deride anyone with contrary information as kooks or right wingers or conspiracy nuts.

I don't want to make this OP too long by quoting the entire article which really should be quoted in its entirety as it just shows how much everyone does NOT know about this virus. Also, it kinda proves what I posted about New York being now immune. It seems I possess this uncanny ability to predict the truth a day or so before it comes out as a news article.

Coronavirus R0 Value Explained - The New York Times



I was right not because I am smart or smarter than anyone else here but because I use common sense, which seems to be absent in today's hysterical environment. All I did was look at the astronomical death rates per million in the four states that had the highest which are New York, Mass, Conn, and New Jersey, and see that they are now among the LOWEST in people dying, whereas some of the states that were previously very low in death rates are now zooming up. I looked at that and thought "This can't be right. IF immunity needed a populace to have 70-80-90% or more people with COVID for immunity, those four states should STILL have people dying. In spite of the continual lies that somehow those states wore masks and others didn't, there is no proof of that and Sweden alone proves that masks don't make a difference since their death rate per million is only slightly higher than the U.S., and less than other countries who most definitely wore masks since Day One.

What has happened in those four states is that they have reached or are near reaching immunity. That is the only explanation when you look at the chart and the facts and think logically. It also means the article is true. We only need 50% or even less of the populace to have had it. Since the other states have not had enough people infected and killed yet, they are having it now.

Questions, Derisive comments? Complaints?

Good post. I wish if Covid had to happen, it would not have been in an election year. Turning public health over to political whores has had a negative impact on public health, to say the least. Immunity will come, as it always does.

The metric that has quietly changed is hospitalizations and deaths”. It started out with “infections” that the media failed to publicly link to co morbidity.

Attenuation will come in spite of politics if for no other reason than the strongest kills and thus, can’t spread. And will keep stepping down from there. Due to politics, we can’t even decide on when it becomes “over”. Nope. We have to wait until after the election. How ****ed is that?

If we aren’t careful, right around the corner is seasonal flu. Are we going to shut down again as it’s historical death toll becomes news?

 

[Ethel2]

You didn't bother to read my post or the article. <sigh>

I read your post. Once you stated that when 50% of the people get infected that herd immunity might be achieved I glossed over the rest of it because its nonsense. Even if it were true (which it is not) as I recall, without looking it up, in NYC there is only about a 25% citywide positivity in antibody tests. Now that they are getting below 1% positive test results they are, fortunately, not going to reach even 50%. Besides which you cannot have herd immunity limited to one geographic area. Herd immunity STARTS to be effective when an entire population reaches about 70% infection rate. The more contagious an infection is the higher the required percentage to confer herd immunity. Measles, a very contagious disease, requires about 90%. Covid is probably near 80-90% IMO. The ONLY reason NY is doing so well is that they are all behaving appropriately...thats it. Herd immunity has NOTHING to do with it.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Good post. I wish if Covid had to happen, it would not have been in an election year. Turning public health over to political whores has had a negative impact on public health, to say the least. Immunity will come, as it always does.

The metric that has quietly changed is hospitalizations and deaths”. It started out with “infections” that the media failed to publicly link to co morbidity.

Attenuation will come in spite of politics if for no other reason than the strongest kills and thus, can’t spread. And will keep stepping down from there. Due to politics, we can’t even decide on when it becomes “over”. Nope. We have to wait until after the election. How ****ed is that?

If we aren’t careful, right around the corner is seasonal flu. Are we going to shut down again as it’s historical death toll becomes news?

good point. almost 800,000 deaths in 5.5 months is no biggie.

 

[Risky Thicket]

How should the virus have been handled properly?

Since you asked... your first mistake, and it is obvious from your OP, is that you attempt to comingle your deep partisan dislike of liberals, Democrats, Independents with a possible way to mitigate COVID-19. The virus and science are apolitical.

One day COVID-19 will be a very small and isolated threat to humans, such as the bubonic plague is now. Are you saying that only Trump conservatives should or can find a way to mitigate COVID-19 or that science will find a way to mitigate COVID-19? Or are you saying only Trump conservative scientists will find a way to mitigate COVID-19?

If might be helpful to you if you could find a way to leave politics out of it and approach the problem in an objective manner.

 

[CaughtInThe]

I read your post. Once you stated that when 50% of the people get infected that herd immunity might be achieved I glossed over the rest of it because its nonsense.

COVID posts by THAT poster should always be glossed over. He's attempting to downplay the whole thing (deaths) to get a slimy crook/politician reelected.


That's all it is.

 

[Ethel2]

COVID posts by THAT poster should always be glossed over. He's attempting to downplay the whole thing (deaths) to get a slimy crook/politician reelected.


That's all it is.

I see. Thanks for the advice. I am relatively new here.
What is most irritating to me is the politicization of the pandemic. The science doesn't lie, and the virus does not respect your political party affiliation, race, geographic area etc etc. Had the jackass in the white house listened to the many warnings he was given we would be in a much different place. But he was more concerned with the economy than with human lives because his re-election chances depend on a thriving economy. TBH, its still not too late to do the right thing, though it will be much more painful now. We can control this in a matter of just four weeks if we have the stomach for it. I read that the Moderna vaccine testing is running into problems because not enough minorities are signing up for the trials and that is a requirement for approval. Herd immunity is NEVER going to happen without a vaccine or well over 600,000 dead Americans, so I believe we should be thinking of a major enforced lockdown as a means to control this. This president is too self centered to consider that. Maybe the next one will be more of a leader.

 

[CaughtInThe]

I see. Thanks for the advice. I am relatively new here.
What is most irritating to me is the politicization of the pandemic. The science doesn't lie, and the virus does not respect your political party affiliation, race, geographic area etc etc. Had the jackass in the white house listened to the many warnings he was given we would be in a much different place. But he was more concerned with the economy than with human lives because his re-election chances depend on a thriving economy. TBH, its still not too late to do the right thing, though it will be much more painful now. We can control this in a matter of just four weeks if we have the stomach for it. I read that the Moderna vaccine testing is running into problems because not enough minorities are signing up for the trials and that is a requirement for approval. Herd immunity is NEVER going to happen without a vaccine or well over 600,000 dead Americans, so I believe we should be thinking of a major enforced lockdown as a means to control this. This president is too self centered to consider that. Maybe the next one will be more of a leader.

all we needed during a Pandemic was a leader who would coordinate with Governors to stop the spread as quickly as possible.


that's it. that's all we needed.

 

[Luce]

1. Which scientists?

2. "It's not inconceivable" does not equal "this is what's happening."

This is a nothingburger.

 

[Noodlegawd]

It is disturbing how large segments of a society will parrot what others say and if that person is "in authority", will use that information as the bible. Many here were parroting some epidemiologist or other as saying that 70-80% of the populace needed to have COVID before immunity would be reached. In a new article, this is being called into question. I absolutely loathe the NY Times, bit since it is the GOTO source for many left wingers here, what better rag to quote for all of the progressives, liberals and independents here. I searched for this only because a poster here derided Dennis Prager for saying that herd immunity may occur at 50% and instead of checking himself, Luce dismissed the contention out of hand because, after all, Dennis Prager, you know is, well.a CONSERVATIVE!! This is what is done with people who want to hold onto false information provided by their tribe. they deride anyone with contrary information as kooks or right wingers or conspiracy nuts.

I don't want to make this OP too long by quoting the entire article which really should be quoted in its entirety as it just shows how much everyone does NOT know about this virus. Also, it kinda proves what I posted about New York being now immune. It seems I possess this uncanny ability to predict the truth a day or so before it comes out as a news article.

Coronavirus R0 Value Explained - The New York Times



I was right not because I am smart or smarter than anyone else here but because I use common sense, which seems to be absent in today's hysterical environment. All I did was look at the astronomical death rates per million in the four states that had the highest which are New York, Mass, Conn, and New Jersey, and see that they are now among the LOWEST in people dying, whereas some of the states that were previously very low in death rates are now zooming up. I looked at that and thought "This can't be right. IF immunity needed a populace to have 70-80-90% or more people with COVID for immunity, those four states should STILL have people dying. In spite of the continual lies that somehow those states wore masks and others didn't, there is no proof of that and Sweden alone proves that masks don't make a difference since their death rate per million is only slightly higher than the U.S., and less than other countries who most definitely wore masks since Day One.

What has happened in those four states is that they have reached or are near reaching immunity. That is the only explanation when you look at the chart and the facts and think logically. It also means the article is true. We only need 50% or even less of the populace to have had it. Since the other states have not had enough people infected and killed yet, they are having it now.

Questions, Derisive comments? Complaints?

Cool story. So only about a million people need to die in the US before we get it under control. Best news I heard all week.

 

[CaughtInThe]

1. Which scientists?

2. "It's not inconceivable" does not equal "this is what's happening."

This is a nothingburger.

It's funny to see this thread and the one about masks not working at the top of the front page.


These people are literally still in denial. They haven't even moved past Stage One.

 

[Paradoxical]

That response belongs in grade school. Did you never hear of 'leading by example'? That's what leaders do. What has Trump done? Nothing but whine, downplay the severity of the disease, claim it is "under control" and insult or fire those who dared challenge and correct his more absurd assertions. THINK!
Oh, and to add to your education for today South Korea is a democratic republic, same as yours.

I have had this same response from others here. Trump ordered a hospital naval carrier to NYC and it wound up being unused. He sped up respirators. Everything he did was to help NYC and even Cuomo praised him. That idiot went on TV last night and blamed EUROPE for COVID. Do you like that? He also said he handled it well. He had 4 times the amount of deaths than 46 other states and he says he handled it well??!! Trump handled it well and I am tired of the Goebbellian lying on the part of the left wingers trying to blame Trump for unprepared states and cities.

 

[snakestretcher]

I have had this same response from others here. Trump ordered a hospital naval carrier to NYC and it wound up being unused. He sped up respirators. Everything he did was to help NYC and even Cuomo praised him. That idiot went on TV last night and blamed EUROPE for COVID. Do you like that? He also said he handled it well. He had 4 times the amount of deaths than 46 other states and he says he handled it well??!! Trump handled it well and I am tired of the Goebbellian lying on the part of the left wingers trying to blame Trump for unprepared states and cities.

Your first infections came from Europe. Why the problem?

 

[Paradoxical]

good point. almost 800,000 deaths in 5.5 months is no biggie.

Viruses kill people. Did you not know this?

 

[Noodlegawd]

all we needed during a Pandemic was a leader who would coordinate with Governors to stop the spread as quickly as possible.


that's it. that's all we needed.

What's there to coordinate? Why can't each governor do what he or she thinks is the best approach for his or her state? Was there some overlord coordinating between Germany and Italy, or Japan, China, and Korea?

Or by "coordinate," do you mean "impose conditions on all states?"

 

[Visbek]

I have had this same response from others here. Trump ordered a hospital naval carrier to NYC and it wound up being unused.

And what do you think that proves?

The POTUS should have been working on, since at least late March:

- Using the DPA to procure and produce as much PPE, testing supplies, and other medical supplies as needed

- Develop a national system of contact tracing

- Coordinate the distribution of PPE, medical supplies, ventilators etc with the governors -- instead of compete with the states for supplies, and give out some supplies as political favors

- Let the CDC and other experts inform the public, instead of use daily meetings as a replacement for campaign rallies, and use them to spread misinformation

- Actually encourage people to social distance and wear masks, instead of encouraging states to open too soon

- Actually encourage citizens to listen to and work with local and state officials, instead of undermining them and encouraging people to protest against them

- Done everything he could to ensure that election authorities and the USPS had what it needed for the burst of mail-in voting (as well as keep normal deliveries on time)

- Done everything he could to provide financial support for the states, rather than compound their fiscal woes by trying to get states to pony up for 1/4 of the cost of a reduced pandemic unemployment benefit

- Work with Congress, instead of issue a bunch of illegal and useless executive actions that were primarily designed to make his political rivals look bad

The list goes on. The tiny handful of things he's done right -- most of which he backtracked on in just a few days -- are vastly overwhelmed by what he's done wrong. That's why the US response has been such a mess.

He also said he handled it well. He had 4 times the amount of deaths than 46 other states and he says he handled it well??!! Trump handled it well....

Cuomo did what it took to get the virus under control.

Trump hasn't done jack.