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Looks like I was right on immunity.

It is disturbing how large segments of a society will parrot what others say and if that person is "in authority", will use that information as the bible. Many here were parroting some epidemiologist or other as saying that 70-80% of the populace needed to have COVID before immunity would be reached. In a new article, this is being called into question. I absolutely loathe the NY Times, bit since it is the GOTO source for many left wingers here, what better rag to quote for all of the progressives, liberals and independents here. I searched for this only because a poster here derided Dennis Prager for saying that herd immunity may occur at 50% and instead of checking himself, Luce dismissed the contention out of hand because, after all, Dennis Prager, you know is, well.a CONSERVATIVE!! This is what is done with people who want to hold onto false information provided by their tribe. they deride anyone with contrary information as kooks or right wingers or conspiracy nuts.

I don't want to make this OP too long by quoting the entire article which really should be quoted in its entirety as it just shows how much everyone does NOT know about this virus. Also, it kinda proves what I posted about New York being now immune. It seems I possess this uncanny ability to predict the truth a day or so before it comes out as a news article.

Coronavirus R0 Value Explained - The New York Times



I was right not because I am smart or smarter than anyone else here but because I use common sense, which seems to be absent in today's hysterical environment. All I did was look at the astronomical death rates per million in the four states that had the highest which are New York, Mass, Conn, and New Jersey, and see that they are now among the LOWEST in people dying, whereas some of the states that were previously very low in death rates are now zooming up. I looked at that and thought "This can't be right. IF immunity needed a populace to have 70-80-90% or more people with COVID for immunity, those four states should STILL have people dying. In spite of the continual lies that somehow those states wore masks and others didn't, there is no proof of that and Sweden alone proves that masks don't make a difference since their death rate per million is only slightly higher than the U.S., and less than other countries who most definitely wore masks since Day One.

What has happened in those four states is that they have reached or are near reaching immunity. That is the only explanation when you look at the chart and the facts and think logically. It also means the article is true. We only need 50% or even less of the populace to have had it. Since the other states have not had enough people infected and killed yet, they are having it now.

Questions, Derisive comments? Complaints?

You do get high marks for doggedness in the pursuit of a meme that fits your unschooled opinions. But it's not "common sense" (which is the favorite crutch for anyone who doesn't have any facts) that you used but just the usual trawling around in search of a minority of "experts" in the field who feed your ignorance. There's a paywall to your link so we really can't see where these experts come from but it's hilarious that you had to go to the hated NYT to scrape them up no doubt thinking, "ah-ha! I've got the libs this time!!" All I can say is I just feel sorry for you.

And I do appreciate you putting your butt out like this so we can kick it thoroughly time and time again.
 
They are hoping herd immunity will take place at 50% infected.


America has 533 deaths per million population.

Sweden has 574


Sweden did the herd immunity thing. Wouldn't Sweden have fewer deaths right now?

We're going to blow past Sweden's lead very soon.
 
Your first infections came from Europe. Why the problem?

May I see the evidence of this other two epidemiologists looking at roughly 140 samples and saying "lookey here. I think this one came from Devonshire. Oh, and here's one that came from Scotland. Oh u, this little bugger had to come from Ireland. It is green, and..."

By the way, how is it that 675,000 Chinese came here from 11-17 to 1-31 and most to NYC and lo ad behold, not a ONE of them infected anyone in New York? With your vast intellect, I'm sure you have an answer.
 
May I see the evidence of this other two epidemiologists looking at roughly 140 samples and saying "lookey here. I think this one came from Devonshire. Oh, and here's one that came from Scotland. Oh u, this little bugger had to come from Ireland. It is green, and..."

By the way, how is it that 675,000 Chinese came here from 11-17 to 1-31 and most to NYC and lo ad behold, not a ONE of them infected anyone in New York? With your vast intellect, I'm sure you have an answer.

COVID-19 U.S.: Coronavirus outbreak came from Europe flights, not China, say researchers | National Post



Most Early New York COVID-19 Cases Came From Europe

Study shows NYC COVID-19 outbreak had European and U.S. origins

New York coronavirus outbreak originated in Europe, new study finds - ABC News

Knock yourself out.
 
I read your post. Once you stated that when 50% of the people get infected that herd immunity might be achieved I glossed over the rest of it because its nonsense. Even if it were true (which it is not) as I recall, without looking it up, in NYC there is only about a 25% citywide positivity in antibody tests. Now that they are getting below 1% positive test results they are, fortunately, not going to reach even 50%. Besides which you cannot have herd immunity limited to one geographic area. Herd immunity STARTS to be effective when an entire population reaches about 70% infection rate. The more contagious an infection is the higher the required percentage to confer herd immunity. Measles, a very contagious disease, requires about 90%. Covid is probably near 80-90% IMO. The ONLY reason NY is doing so well is that they are all behaving appropriately...thats it. Herd immunity has NOTHING to do with it.

You didn't read the link. i didn't write it.I quoted the article.

PS. Don't listen tote left wing posters here. They are Goebbellian.
 
What's there to coordinate? Why can't each governor do what he or she thinks is the best approach for his or her state? Was there some overlord coordinating between Germany and Italy, or Japan, China, and Korea?

Or by "coordinate," do you mean "impose conditions on all states?"


Perhaps because the Federal government has the CDC, and the expertise that states will not have to the same degree

It could set standards that states should follow, provide assistance to states that require it.

Why else have a federal government? If it is not going to do anything just get rid of it
 
You didn't read the link. i didn't write it.I quoted the article.

PS. Don't listen tote left wing posters here. They are Goebbellian.

You do understand that Goebbels was a far-right fascist? No, you'll probably tell us he was a socialist!:lol:
 
Perhaps because the Federal government has the CDC, and the expertise that states will not have to the same degree

It could set standards that states should follow, provide assistance to states that require it.

Why else have a federal government? If it is not going to do anything just get rid of it

The federal government did give hundreds of billions of dollars in assistance to states (not to mention all the financial assistance it gave to individuals in every state), and the CDC did put out guidelines. What am I missing?

If you want the federal government to do everything, why not just get rid of state governments?
 
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Since you asked... your first mistake, and it is obvious from your OP, is that you attempt to comingle your deep partisan dislike of liberals, Democrats, Independents with a possible way to mitigate COVID-19. The virus and science are apolitical.

One day COVID-19 will be a very small and isolated threat to humans, such as the bubonic plague is now. Are you saying that only Trump conservatives should or can find a way to mitigate COVID-19 or that science will find a way to mitigate COVID-19? Or are you saying only Trump conservative scientists will find a way to mitigate COVID-19?

If might be helpful to you if you could find a way to leave politics out of it and approach the problem in an objective manner.

I never said that. I am saying that we would be far better off as a society in facing up to adversity instead of cowering. I am saying that Sweden did not ruin their economy, force people to lose businesses they struggled 20 years to build, put our children in debt because the current humans were afraid they would be one on the 1% of people under 35 who die from it. that is not 1% of the population, but 1% of all those who die.

We are going to eventually be like the Martians in War of the Worlds. Our immune systems will no longer work against anything.

All this nonsense and speculation of who is immune, what immunity means, how long it lasts is pure speculation and conjecture. We need to use our own brans and ot accept Goebbellian news reports whocherry pick what they what you to see and not see with the sole intent of keeping you in fear.

It is crazy to say that just those four states who are now having minimal deaths is because all of a sudden, they wore masks. It is really arrogant to dismiss what is staring us straight in the fcae, and that is that those four states have had their killings. Those who are left are immune or just don't get it.
 
I never said that. I am saying that we would be far better off as a society in facing up to adversity instead of cowering. I am saying that Sweden did not ruin their economy, force people to lose businesses they struggled 20 years to build, put our children in debt because the current humans were afraid they would be one on the 1% of people under 35 who die from it. that is not 1% of the population, but 1% of all those who die.

We are going to eventually be like the Martians in War of the Worlds. Our immune systems will no longer work against anything.

All this nonsense and speculation of who is immune, what immunity means, how long it lasts is pure speculation and conjecture. We need to use our own brans and ot accept Goebbellian news reports whocherry pick what they what you to see and not see with the sole intent of keeping you in fear.

It is crazy to say that just those four states who are now having minimal deaths is because all of a sudden, they wore masks. It is really arrogant to dismiss what is staring us straight in the fcae, and that is that those four states have had their killings. Those who are left are immune or just don't get it.

No, the only person who just "don't get it", is you old chum.
 
Your first infections came from Europe. Why the problem?

That is just a claim, and an unsubstantiated one. It is Goebbellian news.

That is, unless you have some evidence that they found the very first person that was infected(how would they know?) and then compared that to one in, say, Devonshire.

But, it's crazy time to say this virus came from Europe. As Hillary the Hag once said, "What DIFFERENCE does it make?"
 
And what do you think that proves?

The POTUS should have been working on, since at least late March:

- Using the DPA to procure and produce as much PPE, testing supplies, and other medical supplies as needed

- Develop a national system of contact tracing

- Coordinate the distribution of PPE, medical supplies, ventilators etc with the governors -- instead of compete with the states for supplies, and give out some supplies as political favors

- Let the CDC and other experts inform the public, instead of use daily meetings as a replacement for campaign rallies, and use them to spread misinformation

- Actually encourage people to social distance and wear masks, instead of encouraging states to open too soon

- Actually encourage citizens to listen to and work with local and state officials, instead of undermining them and encouraging people to protest against them

- Done everything he could to ensure that election authorities and the USPS had what it needed for the burst of mail-in voting (as well as keep normal deliveries on time)

- Done everything he could to provide financial support for the states, rather than compound their fiscal woes by trying to get states to pony up for 1/4 of the cost of a reduced pandemic unemployment benefit

- Work with Congress, instead of issue a bunch of illegal and useless executive actions that were primarily designed to make his political rivals look bad

The list goes on. The tiny handful of things he's done right -- most of which he backtracked on in just a few days -- are vastly overwhelmed by what he's done wrong. That's why the US response has been such a mess.



Cuomo did what it took to get the virus under control.

Trump hasn't done jack.

Cuomo puts the dumb in the dumb and dumber Fredos.
 
You do get high marks for doggedness in the pursuit of a meme that fits your unschooled opinions. But it's not "common sense" (which is the favorite crutch for anyone who doesn't have any facts) that you used but just the usual trawling around in search of a minority of "experts" in the field who feed your ignorance. There's a paywall to your link so we really can't see where these experts come from but it's hilarious that you had to go to the hated NYT to scrape them up no doubt thinking, "ah-ha! I've got the libs this time!!" All I can say is I just feel sorry for you.

And I do appreciate you putting your butt out like this so we can kick it thoroughly time and time again.

Speaking of schooling, that is what i do to this board every day, because lord knows you all need it desperately.
 
Don't listen tote left wing posters here. They are Goebbellian.
I have it on good authority that "When the debate is lost, the loser resorts to slander."
 
We're going to blow past Sweden's lead very soon.

Well, thank you very kindly for being the second guy toady and about the 50th to prove e right with a post.

I will make another post as to why later and let you wrack your brain thinking "What does Paradoxical mean? Does he have me proving him right again? If so, how? Drat!"
 
You do understand that Goebbels was a far-right fascist? No, you'll probably tell us he was a socialist!:lol:

Depends what you consider "right". He was evil personified, just like the DNC is today who have mastered the use of CNN, MSNBS, WaPo, HuffPo,the NY Times, businessinsider, etc. who all nightly report only what the DNC wants them to, over and over and over. I could show collages of the anchors on each station using the exact headlines crafted for maximum derision of Trump. It is embarrassingly comical to watch them, like watching a China News channel. Embarrassingly comical. They don't even hide the fact that they are the Goebbellian news any longer.
 
What's there to coordinate? Why can't each governor do what he or she thinks is the best approach for his or her state? Was there some overlord coordinating between Germany and Italy, or Japan, China, and Korea?

Or by "coordinate," do you mean "impose conditions on all states?"

you literally just said "why do we need a leader?"



i think that question will be answered in November.
 
And what do you think that proves?

The POTUS should have been working on, since at least late March:

- Using the DPA to procure and produce as much PPE, testing supplies, and other medical supplies as needed

- Develop a national system of contact tracing

- Coordinate the distribution of PPE, medical supplies, ventilators etc with the governors -- instead of compete with the states for supplies, and give out some supplies as political favors

- Let the CDC and other experts inform the public, instead of use daily meetings as a replacement for campaign rallies, and use them to spread misinformation

- Actually encourage people to social distance and wear masks, instead of encouraging states to open too soon

- Actually encourage citizens to listen to and work with local and state officials, instead of undermining them and encouraging people to protest against them

- Done everything he could to ensure that election authorities and the USPS had what it needed for the burst of mail-in voting (as well as keep normal deliveries on time)

- Done everything he could to provide financial support for the states, rather than compound their fiscal woes by trying to get states to pony up for 1/4 of the cost of a reduced pandemic unemployment benefit

- Work with Congress, instead of issue a bunch of illegal and useless executive actions that were primarily designed to make his political rivals look bad

The list goes on. The tiny handful of things he's done right -- most of which he backtracked on in just a few days -- are vastly overwhelmed by what he's done wrong. That's why the US response has been such a mess.



Cuomo did what it took to get the virus under control.

Trump hasn't done jack.

that poster doesn't care about living and breathing folks and has said so.

he's an extremist.
 
You are wrong. if you were correct, 100% of the population would have to have it because even if 90% had it, there would still be 105 that didn't and based on your analogy, that 10% would be at risk. It don't work that way.

It ****ing does work that way.

Always. Learn about that of which you speak before you start declaring things.

"Herd immunity" occurs when enough members of a population have developed immunity that the virus has a hard time spreading. Too many of those exposed to it are immune, so there are fewer who can spread it, so there are fewer opportunities for the vulnerable to he exposed.

It is a numbers game, not the end of the virus. If that were the case we would have no influenzas, no colds. What happens is just enough catch it to keep it alive and then when it reaches a "virgin" population or one that has lost immunity it all starts again.

This is a really dangerous time for people to misapprehend things as badly as you have here.
 
I have had this same response from others here. Trump ordered a hospital naval carrier to NYC and it wound up being unused. He sped up respirators. Everything he did was to help NYC and even Cuomo praised him. That idiot went on TV last night and blamed EUROPE for COVID. Do you like that? He also said he handled it well. He had 4 times the amount of deaths than 46 other states and he says he handled it well??!! Trump handled it well and I am tired of the Goebbellian lying on the part of the left wingers trying to blame Trump for unprepared states and cities.
Oh, jeebus, the lies and the excuses:
By the time the Navy ship got to NYC the deaths had declined and hospitals were able to handle the load. So, day-late-dollar-short Dirtbag. The federal government was actually hijacking PPEs and ventilators that had been ordered by NY and other states with Boy Moron Jared claiming they needed to be for "us" (supposedly the federal government but who knows what the **** that twit meant.

And here's one of the biggest reasons NYC was hit so hard so early (which is exactly contrary to what you choose to believe and dishonestly spread):
1. CLOSE THE FRONT DOOR, LEAVE THE BACK OPEN
Outbreaks can’t start without a spark. The U.S. shut down most travel from China on Feb. 2, when there were at least 14,000 cases there. But it left open travel from most of Europe until March 13. During that time, Italy went from two known infections to more than 15,000.

In the week ended March 13, 274,000 people arrived at New York-area airports from Europe, and another 174,000 came from the U.K. and Ireland, according to U. S. Customs and Border Protection’s New York field office.

“We closed the front door with the China ban, which was right,” New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said on April 24. “But we left the back door open.”
Coronavirus: Why New York Was Hit Harder Than Other Cities

And "Trump handled it well" is the very kind of Goebbelsian gaslighting that you are now trying to put on Dems which is also Goebbelsian. IOW, Cult work to the max.
 
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