• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Look To Right-Wing Think Tanks Rather Than Judges To Interpret The Constitution

Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
1,563
Reaction score
138
Location
In the land of steers and queers
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Think Progress DeMint And Ensign Look To Right-Wing Think Tanks Rather Than Judges To Interpret The Constitution

Right Wing Extremists DeMint And Ensign
Look To Right-Wing Think Tanks Rather Than Judges To Interpret The Constitution

demintensigncoburn Sens. Jim DeMint (R-SC) and John Ensign (R-NV) announced yesterday that they would invoke an unusual Senate procedure — a “constitutional point of order” — to allow the Senate to rule by majority vote on whether the “Democrat health care takeover bill” is unconstitutional.

Significantly, neither DeMint nor Ensign cite a single judge, justice or reputable constitutional scholar who believes that health reform is unconstitutional. Instead, they rely entirely on a study by the right-wing Heritage Foundation, a radical “tenther” organization which has endorsed the view that Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the federal minimum wage, and the federal ban on workplace discrimination and whites-only lunch counters are all unconstitutional. Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT), rebuts DeMint and Ensign’s constitutional claim by citing numerous constitutional scholars — including right-wing law professor Jonathan Adler — who all agree that health reform is constitutional. Moreover, as ThinkProgress has previously explained, even ultra-conservative Justice Antonin Scalia disagrees with the tenther attack on health reform.

Sadly, DeMint and Ensign’s attempt to change the meaning of the Constitution by invoking a constitutional point of order is an all too familiar tactic. As CQ reports, Republicans often invoke this procedure to claim that bills they don’t like must therefore be unconstitutional. Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) recently invoked the procedure to claim that a $200,000 federal grant to an Omaha, Neb. museum somehow violated the constitution. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) used it to protest a bill to enfranchise D.C. residents.

Raising a constitutional point of order is also the first step to invoking the so-called “nuclear option,” an elaborate set of procedural maneuvers Republicans dreamed up while they were still in the majority, that effectively declare the filibuster unconstitutional. Indeed, despite the fact that Ensign and DeMint now claim the right to filibuster anything the majority does, both senators believed the filibuster must be unconstitutional when it was being used against them. Ensign claimed that the Senate has a “constitutional obligation” to give President Bush’s most radical judicial nominees an “up-or-down” vote, and DeMint had even harsher words for Democratic senators who opposed majority rule:

The obstructionists should go to the Senate floor, make their arguments, allow senators to draw their conclusions on her nomination and then let us vote. If their arguments are so strong, they should be able to convince a majority to agree. Otherwise, they are simply smearing the integrity of a highly respected jurist to score political points against the president, at the expense of vandalizing the Constitution. . . .

There is a reason Americans elected George W. Bush and a large Republican majority in Congress. The majority of Americans trusted our judgment on judicial nominees. There is also a reason Democrats are in the minority. Most Americans did not trust them to make these decisions.​

Now that DeMint and Ensign are in the minority, however, it simply must be the case that the Constitution protects minority obstructionism–and that bills opposed by the minority are unconstitutional.
 
Think Progress DeMint And Ensign Look To Right-Wing Think Tanks Rather Than Judges To Interpret The Constitution

Right Wing Extremists DeMint And Ensign
Look To Right-Wing Think Tanks Rather Than Judges To Interpret The Constitution

demintensigncoburn Sens. Jim DeMint (R-SC) and John Ensign (R-NV) announced yesterday that they would invoke an unusual Senate procedure — a “constitutional point of order” — to allow the Senate to rule by majority vote on whether the “Democrat health care takeover bill” is unconstitutional.

Significantly, neither DeMint nor Ensign cite a single judge, justice or reputable constitutional scholar who believes that health reform is unconstitutional. Instead, they rely entirely on a study by the right-wing Heritage Foundation, a radical “tenther” organization which has endorsed the view that Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the federal minimum wage, and the federal ban on workplace discrimination and whites-only lunch counters are all unconstitutional. Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT), rebuts DeMint and Ensign’s constitutional claim by citing numerous constitutional scholars — including right-wing law professor Jonathan Adler — who all agree that health reform is constitutional. Moreover, as ThinkProgress has previously explained, even ultra-conservative Justice Antonin Scalia disagrees with the tenther attack on health reform.

Sadly, DeMint and Ensign’s attempt to change the meaning of the Constitution by invoking a constitutional point of order is an all too familiar tactic. As CQ reports, Republicans often invoke this procedure to claim that bills they don’t like must therefore be unconstitutional. Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) recently invoked the procedure to claim that a $200,000 federal grant to an Omaha, Neb. museum somehow violated the constitution. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) used it to protest a bill to enfranchise D.C. residents.

Raising a constitutional point of order is also the first step to invoking the so-called “nuclear option,” an elaborate set of procedural maneuvers Republicans dreamed up while they were still in the majority, that effectively declare the filibuster unconstitutional. Indeed, despite the fact that Ensign and DeMint now claim the right to filibuster anything the majority does, both senators believed the filibuster must be unconstitutional when it was being used against them. Ensign claimed that the Senate has a “constitutional obligation” to give President Bush’s most radical judicial nominees an “up-or-down” vote, and DeMint had even harsher words for Democratic senators who opposed majority rule:

The obstructionists should go to the Senate floor, make their arguments, allow senators to draw their conclusions on her nomination and then let us vote. If their arguments are so strong, they should be able to convince a majority to agree. Otherwise, they are simply smearing the integrity of a highly respected jurist to score political points against the president, at the expense of vandalizing the Constitution. . . .

There is a reason Americans elected George W. Bush and a large Republican majority in Congress. The majority of Americans trusted our judgment on judicial nominees. There is also a reason Democrats are in the minority. Most Americans did not trust them to make these decisions.​

Now that DeMint and Ensign are in the minority, however, it simply must be the case that the Constitution protects minority obstructionism–and that bills opposed by the minority are unconstitutional.



I thought this related info about the Heritage Foundation was very interesting ~

"Former Heritage Foundation employees who have served in the Bush Administration

* Elaine Chao: Department of Labor Secretary; formerly a Heritage Distinguished Fellow
* Kay Coles James: Director of the Office of Personnel Management; formerly Heritage's Citizenship Project director
* Angela Antonelli: Chief Financial Officer of the Department of Housing and Urban Development; formerly Heritage's director for Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies
* Mark Wilson: Deputy Assistant Secretary of Labor; formerly Heritage Foundation's Research Fellow
* Alvin Felzenberg: a member of Rumsfeld's "team" at the Department of Defense; formerly Heritage Foundation's Visiting Fellow
* Gale Norton: Secretary of the Interior; Founder of the National Chair of the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy (heavily funded by Heritage Foundation)."

Heritage Foundation | Right Wing Watch
 
Nancy Pelosy looks to her own fantasy land rather than common sense to interpret the Constitution.

Nancy Pelosi said:
Since virtually every aspect of the health care system has an effect on interstate commerce, the power of Congress to regulate health care is essentially unlimited.
 
Congress is the sole judge of what is necessary to provide for the common defence, and they only are to determine what is for the general welfare.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States
 
Last edited:
The powers of Congress extend to every case that is of the least importance.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States
 
There is nothing valuable to human nature, nothing dear to freemen, but what is within its power.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States
 
Congress has authority to make laws which will affect the lives, the liberty, and property of every man in the United States.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States
 
Not one of the men who wrote the Constitution ever said it was supposed to be interpreted according to what every Tom, Dick and Harry believed was common sense.

So what should it be interpreted according to, if not common sense?

Congress is the sole judge of what is necessary to provide for the common defence, and they only are to determine what is for the general welfare.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States

The powers of Congress extend to every case that is of the least importance.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States

There is nothing valuable to human nature, nothing dear to freemen, but what is within its power.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States

Congress has authority to make laws which will affect the lives, the liberty, and property of every man in the United States.

--Robert Yates; October 18, 1787; Interpreting the proposed Constitution for the United States

Why should I care what Robert Yates thought? He is clearly wrong from the first quote. It has since been established that it is the judicial branch, not the legislative branch, that decides what terms such as "common defense" and "general welfare" mean.
 
It has since been established that it is the judicial branch, not the legislative branch, that decides what terms such as "common defense" and "general welfare" mean.

Marbury vs. Madison 1803.

A day rued by conservatives because it paved the way for the 1936 decision whereby the Supreme Court extended the definition of "general welfare".

I get giddy whenever I think of it.
 
http://volokh.com/2009/12/23/the-my...e-constitutionality-of-an-individual-mandate/

In an important recent speech, Senator Max Baucus claims that there is a broad consensus among legal scholars that the individual mandate is constitutional. He claims that “those who study constitutional law as a line of work have drawn th[e] same conclusion” as congressional Democrats. Similar assertions have been made in parts of the liberal blogosphere. For example, Think Progress denounces Republican Senators Ensign and DeMint for citing only “right-wing think tanks” in support of their claims that the mandate is unconstitutional, and chides them for supposedly being unable to cite “a single judge, justice or reputable constitutional scholar who believes that health reform is unconstitutional.”

There certainly are prominent constitutional law scholars who agree with Baucus. But the claim that there is an overwhelming expert consensus on the subject is simply false. As co-blogger Jonathan Adler points out, Baucus mistakenly cited him as a scholar who agrees with the Democrats’ conclusions even though he actually believes that the mandate is not constitutional. The “right-wing think tank” study cited by Ensign and DeMint was actually coauthored by co-blogger Randy Barnett, one of the nation’s most prominent constitutional law scholars, and an expert on the original meaning of the Commerce Clause (the provision usually cited as authorizing Congress to impose the mandate). Richard Epstein of NYU and the University of Chicago is another prominent legal scholar (one of the ten most cited in the country) who believes that the mandate is unconstitutional.

I certainly wouldn’t put myself on the same plane as Jonathan, Randy, or Richard Epstein. But I’m a professional constitutional law academic, federalism and the Commerce Clause are among my areas of expertise, and I think the mandate is unconstitutional too.

............
 
Last edited:
I thought this related info about the Heritage Foundation was very interesting ~

"Former Heritage Foundation employees who have served in the Bush Administration

* Elaine Chao: Department of Labor Secretary; formerly a Heritage Distinguished Fellow
* Kay Coles James: Director of the Office of Personnel Management; formerly Heritage's Citizenship Project director
* Angela Antonelli: Chief Financial Officer of the Department of Housing and Urban Development; formerly Heritage's director for Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies
* Mark Wilson: Deputy Assistant Secretary of Labor; formerly Heritage Foundation's Research Fellow
* Alvin Felzenberg: a member of Rumsfeld's "team" at the Department of Defense; formerly Heritage Foundation's Visiting Fellow
* Gale Norton: Secretary of the Interior; Founder of the National Chair of the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy (heavily funded by Heritage Foundation)."

Heritage Foundation | Right Wing Watch

It's interesting, but hardly surprising. They are a valuable resource for think-tanks.
 
And most others are not? Think-tanks develop characteristics on their own, intentionally or not, whether from the top or from the analysis of each individual.
 
Last edited:
And most others are not? Think-tanks develop characteristics on their own, intentionally or not, whether from the top or from the analysis of each individual.

I guess it is true that the far fringes of the political spectrum are willing to put stock in political analysis from the Heritage Foundation and MoveOn.org.
 
I guess it is true that the far fringes of the political spectrum are willing to put stock in political analysis from the Heritage Foundation and MoveOn.org.

Moveon is not a think-tank. Furthermore, think-tanks are useful for policymakers. It is just that recently people have become convinced that somehow they have been corrupted by radicals, bums, fringe elements, and so forth, when in fact, they have not.
 
Last edited:
Moveon is not a think-tank. Furthermore, think-tanks are useful for policymakers. It is just that recently people have become convinced that somehow they have been corrupted by radicals, bums, fringe elements, and so forth, when in fact, they have not.

As far as political bias they are equal. I give equal weight to both.
 
I don't see why.
 
Because as far as I can see they are equally biased.

"I don't want to listen to this report from the Brookings Institute because I don't like what it says, so I'm going to say that they're as partisan as Newsmax.com despite the fact that there's absolutely nothing to support that claim and all reasonable people would consider it facially ludicrous. The best part is that nobody can challenge me on it, since I'll just say 'they're equally partisan from what I can see.' My logic is impeccable."
 
"I don't want to listen to this report from the Brookings Institute because I don't like what it says, so I'm going to say that they're as partisan as Newsmax.com despite the fact that there's absolutely nothing to support that claim and all reasonable people would consider it facially ludicrous. The best part is that nobody can challenge me on it, since I'll just say 'they're equally partisan from what I can see.' My logic is impeccable."

If you want to believe the Heritage Foundation, be my guest. Just don't be surprised that many are not impressed.

I think their "What would Reagan do?" feature is a hoot!!! :rofl
http://www.askheritage.org/
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom