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"Lone wolf" status?

Is the "Lone wolf" descibed in Poist #1 part of said group?


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radcen

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?

I don't know.
I think someone can act alone but be influenced enough, by a group idea/belief/platform, that would disqualify them from the lone wolf status.

I guess, for right now, a real lone wolf to me, is someone who acts without influence.
 

_Sal

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?

not part of said group no, they are losers acting alone

the group does benefit from it

they just said people like this can be radicalized within minutes with no contact with Islam...they are crazy they have anger toward society
 

radcen

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I don't know.
I think someone can act alone but be influenced enough, by a group idea/belief/platform, that would disqualify them from the lone wolf status.

I guess, for right now, a real lone wolf to me, is someone who acts without influence.
I get what you're saying, but unless they are avenging a wrong that was done to them personally, I would think they were doing for some other larger cause, and even though their actions are alone... unsanctioned or unapproved, if you will... it's still part of that larger cause.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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I get what you're saying, but unless they are avenging a wrong that was done to them personally, I would think they were doing for some other larger cause, and even though their actions are alone... unsanctioned or unapproved, if you will... it's still part of that larger cause.

That's what I was saying.
A group can say "she/he isn't a part of us" and even the person committing the act can say it, but their influence still exists and they are at least in part, enjoined with them.
 

DaveFagan

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?

To me, it is just the trigger/balance/straw that broke the camel's back that pushed the lone wolf over the psychological edge.
 

joG

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?

Not legally, she isn't. She might be influenced by the group. She might have learned from the group. She might blow the same kind of people up. So she is a part of the larger problem but not of the group.
 

radcen

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Not legally, she isn't. She might be influenced by the group. She might have learned from the group. She might blow the same kind of people up. So she is a part of the larger problem but not of the group.
Agree with "not legally". I would still associate them with the group, though, especially if the group had done a "call to arms" or something like that.
 

EvaPeron

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?

For me, I don't care whether they act alone and claim that they are a part of a group or if they act as a group. We need to call it all Terrorism - and do everything we can to stop it.
 

joG

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Agree with "not legally". I would still associate them with the group, though, especially if the group had done a "call to arms" or something like that.

It is certainly a good question how directly one must invoke violence, before it should be considered criminal or even accomplice to the deed.
 

TheGoverness

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?

No, I wouldn't say they are a part of that group. But they were certainly influenced by them.
 

Ontologuy

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?
A soldier is someone who is directly affiliated with an organization and who, militarily, participates in that organization's conventional warfare tactics under direct orders.

A terrorist is someone who is directly affiliated with an organization and who, militarily, participates in that organization's terrorist warfare tactics under direct orders.

Whether or not a "lone wolf" engages in tactics more befitting a soldier or a terrorist does not carry the same meaning as it does when he is carrying out direct orders from an organization with which he is directly affiliated.

This is because, historically, it has always been about the organization, not the behavior of an individual in that organization, that has carried meaning in attaching associated labels to the organization for politically definitive purposes, associated labels such as "a terrorist organization".

Individual "lone wolves" who commit atrocious mass violence, like in Oklahoma City, Orlando, San Bernardino, and the like, no matter what they cite for "reasons" are simply not acting on direct orders from the organization, and, are simply not terrorists any more than a "lone wolf" descending on some country's military base with a helmet and an assault rifle is a soldier.

Without direct organization affiliation and acting under orders, a person is simply neither a soldier or a terrorist in the true and appropriate meaning of the terms.

When we attempt to inaccurately assign word meaning, we reduce and distort the original and meaningful intent of the word, and we lose sight of perspective.
 

Mason66

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In YOUR mind, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who claims allegiance to an organized group part of that group?

Example: A person...

- acting alone,
- self-admittedly influenced by an organized group (ISIS, as one possibility),
- acting to further said group's goals,
- but, never met with or officially joined said group,

...part of said group?

I don't think there is a lone wolf anymore.

That would mean they came up with the idea and means on their own, hence the lone part.

The internet is so prevalent anymore that they don't need to travel to a place to get all they need to carry out the attack.
 

Mason66

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No, I wouldn't say they are a part of that group. But they were certainly influenced by them.

At the end of the day it doesn't make a difference.

The same amount of people are dead.
 

DA60

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It depends on what that group requires to be officially part of the group.

If it is mere allegiance? Then yes.

If not? Then probably not.


Personally, I don't much care. All terrorists that murder innocent civilians are either insane and/or stupid to the point of insanity. I do not care what your motives are...if you kill innocent civilians en masse then you ARE nuts. Whatever whacko group you 'belong' to is almost totally irrelevant to me...you are all nuts.
 

radcen

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At the end of the day it doesn't make a difference.

The same amount of people are dead.
I think it absolutely does make a difference. Difference in response in the future. It doesn't do any good to look at one aspect when trying to thwart another attack when the attack is coming from somewhere else.
 

_Sal

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Agree with "not legally". I would still associate them with the group, though, especially if the group had done a "call to arms" or something like that.

but in this case in France there was no association, he was just a marginalized individual...it doesn't matter what he says he wasn't ISIS trained...if we start seeing them as joined to some radical group it helps nothing and overlooks the actual problem...mental illness
 

Harry Guerrilla

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but in this case in France there was no association, he was just a marginalized individual...it doesn't matter what he says he wasn't ISIS trained...if we start seeing them as joined to some radical group it helps nothing and overlooks the actual problem...mental illness

Mental illness seems to be an all too common excuse.
Sometimes otherwise decent people do really bad things.
 

_Sal

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Mental illness seems to be an all too common excuse.
Sometimes otherwise decent people do really bad things.

mental illness is no excuse for violent behaviour and we can never allow it to become an excuse

but to minimize the reality of mental illness as the chief reason in lone wolves committing atrocities who are attached to no group means we miss an opportunity to nix the acting out
 

radcen

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but in this case in France there was no association, he was just a marginalized individual...it doesn't matter what he says he wasn't ISIS trained...if we start seeing them as joined to some radical group it helps nothing and overlooks the actual problem...mental illness
In most cases, I think "mental illness" is a cop out. It's equivalent to throwing up our hands and saying, "Well, there's nothing we can do about THAT, so I guess we don't have to do anything."

ETA: I also believe that most marginalized individuals know damn well what they're doing.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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mental illness is no excuse for violent behaviour and we can never allow it to become an excuse

but to minimize the reality of mental illness as the chief reason in lone wolves committing atrocities who are attached to no group means we miss an opportunity to nix the acting out

The argument I'm trying to make is that you can't nix it out.
There have been way too many instances, historically, of otherwise common or decent people doing horribly, awful things.
That would be a whole lot of mentally ill people.
 

_Sal

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In most cases, I think "mental illness" is a cop out. It's equivalent to throwing up our hands and saying, "Well, there's nothing we can do about THAT, so I guess we don't have to do anything."
how is saying he was mentally ill a cop out....if so then saying he belonged to a group that he didn't is actually the cop out....that is throwing up our hands and doing nothing



ETA: I also believe that most marginalized individuals know damn well what they're doing.
they do yes... so?
 
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