Likud Minister Uses IDF Murderer To Bolster Campaign

[uptower]

The man turned out to be a junior minister , I said he was a minister............ I know what you might be thinking and I thought the same thing but that's the bones of it seeing as you enquired

Oh is that all. Still kinda sucks though doesn't it...

 

[Fledermaus]

Your weak response addresses nothing of the question put to you. ( actually put to someone else and you have jumped in on ).

So , we can try again

Show the law that prevents a people under foreign military occupation the right to resist/overthrow that occupation in order to gain self determination ?

And while we are at it you might not want to be seen avoiding the other two contained in that post

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

Easy enough question , why are you so scared to answer it ?

All that typing simply to say "I can't figure out terrorism is illegal".

What is the goal of the attacks? The reason. The intent.

It isn't too defeat the IDF. It isn't too gain territory. It isn't too defend others.

No.

There is no the tactical goal.

You stab an IDF member then..... What? What is gained?

No, the ACT is an act of terrorism.... See the red in previous post.

 

[Fledermaus]

That's exactly what you are claiming with regards to the Palestinians. As a people , with an internationally recognized territory currently under a foreign military occupation/blockade that is denying them their right to self determination.

You wouldn't accept yourself or for your own people but to defend those that force it on another people .

By attacking the IDF members who exactly are they defending?

 

[Fledermaus]

He ran to wiki and avoided the parts of the content he cited that undermined his case

You can and will applaud it but it is a completely hollow endorsement imo

Not all actions of the Palestinians are terrorism and not all combatants are terrorists. Inconvenient for you for sure but true nonetheless

Questions were asked about compensation for terrorism.

I provided and answer.

Your inability to understand a direct answer to a direct question is noted.

 

[oneworld2]

Oh is that all. Still kinda sucks though doesn't it...

I thought he had picked up on some grave mistake which would have come as a huge surprise seeing as usually I am pretty thorough. But when you haven't got much to fight back with/aTTack people on , trivia is better than nothing.

It is both sad and illuminating that this minister sees political currency in cosying up to a cold blooded killer imo. He wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't going to resonate with the target which is Israeli voters of the right. In fact being tough , read further abuses of the Palestinians , is a consideration for any party/politician wrt success at the voting stations

 

[oneworld2]

All that typing simply to say "I can't figure out terrorism is illegal".

What is the goal of the attacks? The reason. The intent.

It isn't too defeat the IDF. It isn't too gain territory. It isn't too defend others.

No.

There is no the tactical goal.

You stab an IDF member then..... What? What is gained?

No, the ACT is an act of terrorism.... See the red in previous post.

All that copy and pasting from Wikipedia only to remain ignorant on the very content you choose to cite from it. I pointed it out and you still chose to ignore it. So that's two occasions you were directed to information that challenges your perception only to ignore it twice. I am not in the least bit surprised by it either

Evilroddy also challenged your input here on this subject and , rightly , showed how your description of what constituted " terrorism " was an accurate assessment of Israeli attacks against Palestinians , particularly regarding its attacks on the people of Gaza .

You will never take any of this onboard because you have a closed mind that can only see Palestinians and their actions through a prism of bigotry. You don't see them as a people and you love nothing more than to use the actions of the few in a bid to smear the whole group in the classic racist doctrine. Evident throughout this and every other thread you take part in here.

 

[oneworld2]

By attacking the IDF members who exactly are they defending?

The rights of their own people that are being abused by the IDF soldiers taking part in actions against them that deny them those rights.

It isn't hard to understand if the person viewing has even a modicum of objectivity/empathy/reasonableness .

You are very demanding that your own questions be answered but repeatedly refuse to answer any put to you yourself . I'll keep putting these to you if only to show those reading just how scared you are to answer them

Third time now

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

Easy enough question , why are you so scared to answer it ?

 

[oneworld2]

Questions were asked about compensation for terrorism.

I provided and answer.

Your inability to understand a direct answer to a direct question is noted.

No , you provided a wiki page that part of which undermined your preferred answer and on very good grounds , you just chose to ignore it.

The only " inability " on display here is your own unwillingness to supply your own answers to direct questions asked about you position. Easy questions you keep running a mile from for very obvious reasons , choosing to try to bluff you way through the debate

 

[Fledermaus]

No , you provided a wiki page that part of which undermined your preferred answer and on very good grounds , you just chose to ignore it.

The only " inability " on display here is your own unwillingness to supply your own answers to direct questions asked about you position. Easy questions you keep running a mile from for very obvious reasons , choosing to try to bluff you way through the debate

Payments to families of suicide bombers....

You must have missed that part. Payment for blowing up civilians....

 

[Fledermaus]

The rights of their own people that are being abused by the IDF soldiers taking part in actions against them that deny them those rights.

It isn't hard to understand if the person viewing has even a modicum of objectivity/empathy/reasonableness .

You are very demanding that your own questions be answered but repeatedly refuse to answer any put to you yourself . I'll keep putting these to you if only to show those reading just how scared you are to answer them

Third time now

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

Easy enough question , why are you so scared to answer it ?

Asked and answered time and again.

The intent makes the terrorist.

If the attacks do not have tactical nor strategic goal and are intended primarily to force social or political change upon a nation it is terrorism by definition....

Who are you protecting by stabbing an IDF member? No one.

 

[Fledermaus]

All that copy and pasting from Wikipedia only to remain ignorant on the very content you choose to cite from it. I pointed it out and you still chose to ignore it. So that's two occasions you were directed to information that challenges your perception only to ignore it twice. I am not in the least bit surprised by it either

Evilroddy also challenged your input here on this subject and , rightly , showed how your description of what constituted " terrorism " was an accurate assessment of Israeli attacks against Palestinians , particularly regarding its attacks on the people of Gaza .

You will never take any of this onboard because you have a closed mind that can only see Palestinians and their actions through a prism of bigotry. You don't see them as a people and you love nothing more than to use the actions of the few in a bid to smear the whole group in the classic racist doctrine. Evident throughout this and every other thread you take part in here.

You don't accept the UN definition of terrorism. Nor the US definition of terrorism. Nor any other definition of terrorism presented.


Simply because you cannot accept the acts of violence committed by the Palestinians are indeed terror attacks.

 

[oneworld2]

Payments to families of suicide bombers....

You must have missed that part. Payment for blowing up civilians....

I didn't miss anything , not even the fact that the article mentioned that the Jewish organisation responsible for the figures had classed every recipient as a terrorist ( just like you do ) and showed why that would be disputed/flawed.

That was the part you have chosen to ignore and want others to ignore for obvious reasons seeing as your aim is obviously to categorize every action of Palestinian resistance as terrorism and every Palestinian involved as a terrorist in order to demonize the entire people , as is in keeping with the bigoted viewpoint you wish to promote/support .

As for the suicide bombings themselves not all of them have targeted civilians . That's your first mistake and is no doubt related to the viewpoint mentioned in the above. And before you wish to try to wriggle out of this by attacking me for saying so there are some things to be stated.

I still hold that a suicide bombing attack that targets soldiers but will obviously cost the lives of civilians is an indiscriminate attack and thus a crime. I am a little more consistent on this though and give the same accord to IDF attacks that are aimed at combatants but are also sure to kill non-combatants.

Remember your comment about "intent " before you cry foul for the same standards being applied to both sides

Not every act of violence made by Palestinians against Israelis is either a crime or terrorism , as much as you want this to be the case. That's why you have persistently refused to answer the questions put to you wrt your own people/self being put in the Palestinian position. The silence on this is truly deafening but you haven't the honesty in debate to answer it and we all know why.

 

[oneworld2]

You don't accept the UN definition of terrorism. Nor the US definition of terrorism. Nor any other definition of terrorism presented.


Simply because you cannot accept the acts of violence committed by the Palestinians are indeed terror attacks.

There's no universal definition of terrorism for a reason. Because those that wish to frame it to suit " the others " actions are guilty of the same or similar themselves. You don't understand this because you have a ridiculously narrow minded view of this subject. It reads , in short whatever they do is terrorism , whatever we do is self defence/legitimate/legal. Evilroddy put it to you earlier wrt IDF actions in Gaza and you haven't the necessary balance needed to process it .

I am fully prepared to consider certain actions , carried out by both sides , as legitimate and other actions as criminal or terrorism........................ your bigoted viewpoint won't allow you to do the same and that's where we differ

 

[oneworld2]

Asked and answered time and again.

You haven't answered the questions once , let alone " time and again ". All you have done is tried to create a question you think you can answer. That's a different thing altogether

We'll try a fourth time and see is you are still too scared to answer it

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

 

[Fledermaus]

I didn't miss anything , not even the fact that the article mentioned that the Jewish organisation responsible for the figures had classed every recipient as a terrorist ( just like you do ) and showed why that would be disputed/flawed.

That was the part you have chosen to ignore and want others to ignore for obvious reasons seeing as your aim is obviously to categorize every action of Palestinian resistance as terrorism and every Palestinian involved as a terrorist in order to demonize the entire people , as is in keeping with the bigoted viewpoint you wish to promote/support .

As for the suicide bombings themselves not all of them have targeted civilians . That's your first mistake and is no doubt related to the viewpoint mentioned in the above. And before you wish to try to wriggle out of this by attacking me for saying so there are some things to be stated.

I still hold that a suicide bombing attack that targets soldiers but will obviously cost the lives of civilians is an indiscriminate attack and thus a crime. I am a little more consistent on this though and give the same accord to IDF attacks that are aimed at combatants but are also sure to kill non-combatants.

Remember your comment about "intent " before you cry foul for the same standards being applied to both sides

Not every act of violence made by Palestinians against Israelis is either a crime or terrorism , as much as you want this to be the case. That's why you have persistently refused to answer the questions put to you wrt your own people/self being put in the Palestinian position. The silence on this is truly deafening but you haven't the honesty in debate to answer it and we all know why.

Payments for SUICIDE BOMBERS....

A long rambling post does not change that concept.

2016 Jerusalem Bus Bombing - Not IDF.
2015 Attempted car bombing - Not IDF
2008 - 2 bombings. One of which was IDF. The other a market.
2007 - Eliat BAKERY bombing.
2006 - Restaurant bombing, Kedumim settlement, Restaurant bombing.

Shall I go on?

CIVILAIN TARGETS, CIVILIAN DEATHS.

 

[Fledermaus]

There's no universal definition of terrorism for a reason. Because those that wish to frame it to suit " the others " actions are guilty of the same or similar themselves. You don't understand this because you have a ridiculously narrow minded view of this subject. It reads , in short whatever they do is terrorism , whatever we do is self defence/legitimate/legal. Evilroddy put it to you earlier wrt IDF actions in Gaza and you haven't the necessary balance needed to process it .

I am fully prepared to consider certain actions , carried out by both sides , as legitimate and other actions as criminal or terrorism........................ your bigoted viewpoint won't allow you to do the same and that's where we differ

I have answered the question.

Your inability to understand I have answered the question is a YOU problem. Not a ME problem.

And the definitions (to anyone who can read without bias) do have the same concepts repeated.

The very same concepts you handwave away when you are not ignoring.

Who is being protected when a bomb goes off in a restaurant in Tel Aviv?

Who is being protected when an IDF member is stabbed?

 

[oneworld2]

Payments for SUICIDE BOMBERS....

A long rambling post does not change that concept.

2016 Jerusalem Bus Bombing - Not IDF.
2015 Attempted car bombing - Not IDF
2008 - 2 bombings. One of which was IDF. The other a market.
2007 - Eliat BAKERY bombing.
2006 - Restaurant bombing, Kedumim settlement, Restaurant bombing.

Shall I go on?

CIVILAIN TARGETS, CIVILIAN DEATHS.

All's you are doing in the above is doing what you are compelled to do................. evade information that counters your preferred narrative , which is the domain of the bigoted

You can shout all you want to because you are trying to sell the bigots viewpoint but ultimately it just gets exposed for what it is anyway

Selecting those attacks that have targeted civilians from a list that also contains the other attacks that target IDF soldiers just completely outs you , you just don't seem to be able to understand that. Which is great btw

 

[Fledermaus]

All's you are doing in the above is doing what you are compelled to do................. evade information that counters your preferred narrative , which is the domain of the bigoted

You can shout all you want to because you are trying to sell the bigots viewpoint but ultimately it just gets exposed for what it is anyway

Selecting those attacks that have targeted civilians from a list that also contains the other attacks that target IDF soldiers just completely outs you , you just don't seem to be able to understand that. Which is great btw

Your inability to face facts is once again demonstrated. Suicide bombers families were rewarded... The suicide bombings were normally civilian targets. Civilian targets do not fall under Oneworlds definition of "legitimate" targets for armed conflict.... Therefore Suicide Bombers were rewarded for predominantly terror attacks.

Facts are not bigoted.

 

[oneworld2]

I have answered the question.

Your inability to understand I have answered the question is a YOU problem. Not a ME problem.

And the definitions (to anyone who can read without bias) do have the same concepts repeated.

The very same concepts you handwave away when you are not ignoring.

Who is being protected when a bomb goes off in a restaurant in Tel Aviv?

Who is being protected when an IDF member is stabbed?

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

Stop running away from this question and demand your own be answered first. I have answered nearly all the questions put to me with the exception of your recent ones because you do this kind of cowardly evasive debate every time you get put in a corner you cannot escape from.

It is obvious you cannot answer it truthfully and sustain the anti Palestinian viewpoint/bigotry you have expressed in this subforum for years

 

[Fledermaus]

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

Stop running away from this question and demand your own be answered first. I have answered nearly all the questions put to me with the exception of your recent ones because you do this kind of cowardly evasive debate every time you get put in a corner you cannot escape from.

It is obvious you cannot answer it truthfully and sustain the anti Palestinian viewpoint/bigotry you have expressed in this subforum for years

Please refer to the definitions given for terrorism.

You have been answered. Time and again. Truthfully.

Who is being protected when an IDF soldier is stabbed? What is the tactical goal? The strategic goal?

No one is being protected. There is no tactical nor strategic goal. There is only the desire to hurt the Israelis in hopes of making social and political changes.

 

[oneworld2]

Your inability to face facts is once again demonstrated. Suicide bombers families were rewarded... The suicide bombings were normally civilian targets. Civilian targets do not fall under Oneworlds definition of "legitimate" targets for armed conflict.... Therefore Suicide Bombers were rewarded for predominantly terror attacks.

Facts are not bigoted.

You are the one that has shown they can't deal with the facts and wish to cherry pick the facts in order to sustain/promote a bigoted viewpoint against Palestinians

I told you earlier that your first mistake was not understanding that not all suicide bombings targeted civilians. You haven't the proof to claim that the targeting of civilians by suicide bombers was the " normal " targeting.

Facts are not bigoted , no problems with that , but bigots selectively use them to promote their bigoted viewpoint and that IS a fact

 

[oneworld2]

Please refer to the definitions given for terrorism.

You have been answered. Time and again. Truthfully.

Who is being protected when an IDF soldier is stabbed? What is the tactical goal? The strategic goal?

No one is being protected. There is no tactical nor strategic goal. There is only the desire to hurt the Israelis in hopes of making social and political changes.

I have answered you alleged definitions of terrorism and explained why there is no universally accepted definition. You ignored that answer. Evilroddy stated that your definitions of terrorism accurately apply to IDF actions against Gazans. You couldn't answer that properly too , so you are in absolutely no postion to claim your questions points haven't been answered. So...........

Fifth time

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

It's not going away until you answer it

 

[Fledermaus]

You are the one that has shown they can't deal with the facts and wish to cherry pick the facts in order to sustain/promote a bigoted viewpoint against Palestinians

I told you earlier that your first mistake was not understanding that not all suicide bombings targeted civilians. You haven't the proof to claim that the targeting of civilians by suicide bombers was the " normal " targeting.

Facts are not bigoted , no problems with that , but bigots selectively use them to promote their bigoted viewpoint and that IS a fact

What "cherry picked" facts?

Those are the suicide bombings listed by year and by target.

Am I missing any? Do you have any idea the number and targets of the suicide bombers?

Let's go to 2005... 9 Bombings. 4 IDF, 5 Markets, Malls, etc.
2004.... 17 Bombings. 6 IDF, 11 Civilian to include a resort, markets and busses.
2003.... 23 Bombings. 2 IDF. 21 Civilian. Most were busses.

CLUE: FACTS ARE NOT BIGOTED. THE USE OF FACTS IS NOT BIGOTED.

 

[Fledermaus]

I have answered you alleged definitions of terrorism and explained why there is no universally accepted definition. You ignored that answer. Evilroddy stated that your definitions of terrorism accurately apply to IDF actions against Gazans. You couldn't answer that properly too , so you are in absolutely no postion to claim your questions points haven't been answered. So...........

Fifth time

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

It's not going away until you answer it

Asked and answered...

Asked and answered time and again.

The intent makes the terrorist.

If the attacks do not have tactical nor strategic goal and are intended primarily to force social or political change upon a nation it is terrorism by definition....

Who are you protecting by stabbing an IDF member? No one.

 

[oneworld2]

Asked and answered...

No that's not an answer and you absolutely know it is not but you still seek to deny that you are systematically avoiding the direct question

Sixth time

If your country was invaded and subsequently occupied by the military of a foreign power would attacks on those troops by your own people be terrorist attacks ?

The attacks on those occupying soldiers serving as strategic and tactical goals in order to bring about a return to self determination which is the social and political change

Answer the question directly instead of trying to dress it up as something else or attempting to hobble together a question you think is similar in order to avoid having to answer the question put to you

It's not a hard question to answer but you are treating it like the plague